Zay Jones and His New QB

[TigerJ]

7 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I thought Zay had shoulder surgery this off-season, which probably impacted his performance this past season.

Yes.  I'm hoping the difference will be noticeable.  

[grb]

1 hour ago, Dr. K said:

Or his post-Bills team. Look at Robert Woods and Marquise Goodwin the minute they got away from Tyrod. 

 

Sigh.

Three points :

• The Bills have been a heavily RUN FIRST TEAM the past three seasons. It was announced they would be run-first way back in the earliest Days of Rex, before Taylor even signed as a free agent. They had the second most rushing attempts in the NFL in both 2015 and 2016. They had the lowest number of passing attempts in the NFL those same years. Now, I'm not a Doctor like the poster above, but I'm willing to postulate a correlation between number of attempts and how many shots a receiver gets at the damn ball. Yep, I'm going out on a limb here, but there seems some kind of relationship there. 
• As for Woods, what's interesting is he was clearly the secondary choice for Taylor, with Watkins the go-to-guy. As BuffaloHokie13 points out above, SW shined with Taylor in a way not seen with any other quarterback. Then both receivers go to Los Angeles / Goff, and everything is completely reversed. Woods gets the majority of the targets and Watkins' numbers shrivel to anemic lows. I haven't seen too many theories on this inversion - whether it's a factor of qb-style, skill-set, or just the relationship that can develop between passer and receiver.
• Once again (for the gawdforsaken zillionth time), there was nothing wrong with TT passing to Woods and Watkins, except they were on the same field together only 15 games over two seasons. The result? 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 td passes. 6 ints. For the sake of comparison, let's look at Goff's 16 game season last year, throwing to the same players: 62.1% comp. 7.98 ypa. 28 td passes. 7 ints. 

Of course if all you can see is total number of passing attempts.........

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I thought Zay had shoulder surgery this off-season, which probably impacted his performance this past season.

 

Supposedly shoulder injury he had predraft that he told no one about.  Pretty dishonest.

 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Do you even understand what you're arguing? Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod as his QB. That is not disputable, it's a fact. Most Yards, Most Yards per Reception, Most TDs, Most receptions per game, and highest catch %.

Yup. I had my problems with Tyrod but He has it working with Sammy.  They did Tyrod a big disservice by trading him before the season.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

Shady, do you honestly expect McCarron to beat Allen out in TC/Preseason for the starting spot? I have my reservations about Allen, but I don't think this will be a problem for him. I think Allen starts from day 1 here, but that's just me. I know that he can throw with touch because he threw a few beautiful touch passes in the Senior Bowl. I am thinking more of those routes where he rips one in there because he has a tight window and sees an opportunity. If Zay let's those passes pop off of his pads or go through his hands it could create turnovers. It's the same for any WR, but I single him out because of everything we saw last year. Like I said before, I hope he rights the ship this year. 

Honestly I don’t know what will happen.    

 

To say that Allen will definitively beat out AJ is what I think a huge leap of faith.  

 

Time will tell.  

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Do you even understand what you're arguing? Sammy's best year as a pro was with Tyrod as his QB. That is not disputable, it's a fact. Most Yards, Most Yards per Reception, Most TDs, Most receptions per game, and highest catch %.

And so was Zay Jones and your point.  Your argument isn't even logical.

[stuvian]

Zay would have a better chance of getting open if he ran the route naked and screaming 

[WideRightRevenge]

I think Zay ate all the slices of humble pie in his rookie season ... think he thought he could come in and bring his game from ECU and dominate like he did there ... but he quickly found out the NFL is not the American Athletic Conference regardless of your NFL bloodlines  ... got out there week 1 and puckered ... and week 2 (I was at the Carolina game) ... and so on all season long .. he got his shoulder fixed ... I am rooting for the kid ... though can't explain the LA incident.

 

In 2018 he's putting on a garter belt and going to breathe through his eyelids .. he'll be fine.

[Teddy KGB]

21 hours ago, grb said:

 

The only time Taylor ever had a Number One & Two receiver on the field that wasn't a cripple, cast-off, or painfully-overwhelmed rookie was the 15 games from 2015-2016 when Woods and Watkins were both healthy. In two years that's the amount of games both were on the field with Taylor : Fifteen.

 

When they were, Taylor's numbers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 tds. 6 ints.

 

Obviously, it was a heavily run-first offense, so the bulk numbers weren't there. But the ypa is top-of-the-league grade, the tds would have tied for tenth (with Kirk Cousins) using last season as a benchmark, and the interception number was exceptional. The problem with Taylor was he had less&less to work with each successive season with the Bills. By last year, with Matthews hobbled, Benjamin hobbled, Jones a deer in the headlights, Clay out a hunk of the season and often unable to practice, and everyone else other-team-rejects, it was particularly obvious. The damage to the running game by scheme change didn't help, and pass protection was spotty at best. What'll happen in Cleveland? We'll see........

 

 

Go tell the Browns board.     

[LEBills]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but Josh Allen said the first teammate he texted after being drafted was Yarborough. The second was Zay Jones.

 

the two had met at the bills training facility when Allen came for his ore-draft visit. I like hearing that because it means Zay was putting in extra, needed work. It also sounds like Zay and Allen are comfortable with each other and hopefully can be the QB/WR combo this team needs eventually.

[grb]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Go tell the Browns board.     

 

Or - as an alternative - I could wait until the season begins, wait until some games are played, wait until Taylor's performance as a Brown becomes a thread in this forum, and then tell it to you. But will you show up to hear? That's the question.......

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by grb

[formerlyofCtown]

On 5/2/2018 at 10:01 AM, grb said:

 

The only time Taylor ever had a Number One & Two receiver on the field that wasn't a cripple, cast-off, or painfully-overwhelmed rookie was the 15 games from 2015-2016 when Woods and Watkins were both healthy. In two years that's the amount of games both were on the field with Taylor : Fifteen.

 

When they were, Taylor's numbers : 63.6% comp. 8.25 ypa. 27 tds. 6 ints.

 

Obviously, it was a heavily run-first offense, so the bulk numbers weren't there. But the ypa is top-of-the-league grade, the tds would have tied for tenth (with Kirk Cousins) using last season as a benchmark, and the interception number was exceptional. The problem with Taylor was he had less&less to work with each successive season with the Bills. By last year, with Matthews hobbled, Benjamin hobbled, Jones a deer in the headlights, Clay out a hunk of the season and often unable to practice, and everyone else other-team-rejects, it was particularly obvious. The damage to the running game by scheme change didn't help, and pass protection was spotty at best. What'll happen in Cleveland? We'll see........

 

Tyrod's only issue is his height.  If he was 6'3".  We wouldn't. Be talking about Josh Allen.  He missed a lot of open targets over the middle.  Unfortunately he went to Warren Moon for advice rather than Drew Brees.  I believe he was buying into it being about race rather than a deficiency he had (his height).  The logical council if it was about race is Warren Moon because he had to deal with that.  If he recognized that he had to overcome height issues it's Brees.  I think once his black coach bring it up he will accept it.

[H2o]

17 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Tyrod's only issue is his height.  If he was 6'3".  We wouldn't. Be talking about Josh Allen.  He missed a lot of open targets over the middle.  Unfortunately he went to Warren Moon for advice rather than Drew Brees.  I believe he was buying into it being about race rather than a deficiency he had (his height).  The logical council if it was about race is Warren Moon because he had to deal with that.  If he recognized that he had to overcome height issues it's Brees.  I think once his black coach bring it up he will accept it.

It's not a height issue imo. You could clearly see Tyrod waiting for a guy to be completely open instead of throwing them open. In the game against the Jags Tyrod threw to the wrong spot for Benjamin instead of going back shoulder. It's things like that why he is no longer here. Gun shy and didn't seem to process what he saw on the field fast enough. Drew doesn't have that problem, Russell doesn't have that problem, and Baker won't have that problem. Zay on the other hand just needs to catch the damn football. 

[keepthefaith]

Frankly I think Zay has his work cut out just to make the team. 

[3rdand12]

On 5/2/2018 at 8:00 PM, Limeaid said:

 

Supposedly shoulder injury he had predraft that he told no one about.  Pretty dishonest.

 

pretty stupid doctors. epic fail.

 

he is full of it. he ran the wrong routes. his timing and steps as the ball came were horrendous.
 

23 hours ago, stuvian said:

Zay would have a better chance of getting open if he ran the route naked and screaming 

well his brother caught him

4 hours ago, H2o said:

It's not a height issue imo. You could clearly see Tyrod waiting for a guy to be completely open instead of throwing them open. In the game against the Jags Tyrod threw to the wrong spot for Benjamin instead of going back shoulder. It's things like that why he is no longer here. Gun shy and didn't seem to process what he saw on the field fast enough. Drew doesn't have that problem, Russell doesn't have that problem, and Baker won't have that problem. Zay on the other hand just needs to catch the damn football. 

it was a height issue and passing lanes than did not open.
and all that other stuff too agreed
Dennison wanted him to drop and throw, the WRs couldn't get open and no timing/trust was ever developed.
Whole thing was tough to watch mostly

[Alphadawg7]

On 5/2/2018 at 6:04 AM, H2o said:

Imo, Tyrod threw a pretty catchable ball. He knew when to sling it and put some touch on his passes. Was he the greatest? No. The reason I bring this up is because of ZJ and his dropped passes last year. Josh Allen rips the ball on a lot of occasions. How will that affect ZJ? I hope he gets it together and his stone hands can be remedied, but one has to wonder. 

 

I have concerns about ZJ regardless who throws the pass.  But yeah, I see your point...Allen has got a cannon, so ZJ has a lot to prove to be effective in the NFL, and proving he can catch a bullet pass is one more thing on the list.  

 

I still have belief ZJ can turn it around, but like most people, I need to see it.  The issues were more than one thing with him...he ran bad routes, had poor focus, mentally fell back, and had clumsy hands.  It would be one thing if he was good in most areas and just needed to fix one part of his game, but man, he struggled in most phases.  

 

Lets just hope it was mostly a confidence issue and that he can come in and get that swagger back and put it behind him.  His offseason sure didnt do him any favors.  

[Punching Bag]

I think Zay's issue was his coach.  He coached him in college but NFL is different and he had trouble changing  way to teach him since he was teaching him before. I thought Sanjay Lal was very good WR coach but he was dumped for the one year coach from Eastern Carolina.

[Sky Diver]

He was thinking too much and not just reacting, imo.

[Hebert19]

Go back and read Zays post combine draft stuff.  It might make you feel better.  Natural hands catcher that snatches the ball from the air...ran a 4.45 yadda yadda

 

I'm going to give him the injury and rookie struggles and still think he could be a good number 2