Opinions on why we passed on Rosen?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Section242 said:

I think the Bills would've taken Allen if they had the 1 pick. I think Pegula made the pick. Right now the Bills are in a rough spot. I'm glad they got a QB but now they need to add weapons for this offense. Right now I think they've got the worst offensive talent in the league. Next year they've got a boatload of cap space though I anticipate Allen starting by the end of the season.

 

I hope to God you're wrong because if he did, we're back in Meddling Owner Hell.  It actually disturbed me a lot to hear the Pegulas were so involved in the pre-draft e v a l process and that they and Brandon were in the War Room.  

 

If the Pegulas input was invited for character evaluation, I think that's potentially good.  There were character concerns involved with the top choices and as businesspeople, they presumably have some insight.  If they were invited to help them understand what their employees planned to do and "buy in" to the plan, understandable.  But if they actually made the pick, overriding their football professionals - Hell to the No, No, NO bad.

8 minutes ago, BuffaninATL said:

Sorry for the belated video, but it is a follow up to my previous post detailing a perceived personality defect with Rosen & likening him to Cutler. It's a short clip (1:22) and worth a listen, esp. at the :45 mark

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/video/2018/04/26/2018-nfl-draft-cardinals-select-quarterback-josh-rosen

 

(embedded video on the linked page)

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are that the way to evaluate whether or not that's true would be by talking to his coaches.  He had 3 different OCs in 3 years at Stanford, plus Mora, plus his HS OC and HC, plus Dilfer who has flipped and is now a Rosen fan.    You talk to them, and decide for yourself.

 

From what Dilfer said IMHO, if you're afraid Josh Rosen is going to shut off on your coaches, maybe you need different coaches.

 

Whatever is true, it's the Cards problem now!

[Buffaloflash]

On 4/27/2018 at 3:01 PM, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

The Bills FO/coaching passed on him because they were afraid of a player questioning their stupid moves and game plans. 

Then Rosen should have applied for a Gm,or coaching job.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Beane said Rosen was definitely in consideration, they liked the upside of Allen, those 2 concussions had to be a factor and to be honest you can't teach arm strength, they probably felt like the mechanics can be worked on but that arm is elite already, just my opinions.

[BarleyNY]

Concussions.

[RocCityRoller]

On 4/27/2018 at 3:01 PM, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

The Bills FO/coaching passed on him because they were afraid of a player questioning their stupid moves and game plans. 

 

Josh Rosen, is that you?

[ganesh]

On 4/28/2018 at 12:10 AM, Bills4life1924 said:

Athleticism prob had something to do with it as well. Allen can run/extend plays. Rosen can work the pocket but is lacking athletic measurables. 

Does this mean that Rosen will need a stud OL to be successful in the NFL?

[RiotAct]

On 4/27/2018 at 4:27 PM, bobobonators said:

 

He needs to put on some weight. And im sure he will. He’ll die in the NFL otherwise. He has to face Suh and Darnold 2x a year. 

wait... what?

[SouthNYfan]

On 4/27/2018 at 9:57 PM, Fadingpain said:

Let's assume the theory is correct and the Bills coach Allen into a clone of Cam Newton.

 

Is that good enough?  Could we have done better in this draft?

 

 

 

You're f*cking kidding, right?

You don't think a clone Cam Newton, producing like him is good enough?

You're really asking that?

 

He has a league MVP and carried them to the f*cking Superbowl.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

I get the sense that Beane and McDermott would gladly deal with whatever social justice agenda Rosen might follow in exchange for delivering a SB championship to Buffalo.  I think they are both wired to win, and if they felt Rosen was The One he would be a Bill right now.  

 

I am 100% convinced they felt Josh Allen was the guy that could deliver, relative to those available at that point.  I've deduced this by looking at their actions leading up to the selection.  Concussion history seems likely to have been a factor, attitude and how it would play with the team might well have been a factor (Beane indicated they consulted with the leadership council before selecting Allen, perhaps they did the same with respect to Rosen etc all?), frame etc.  

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

On 4/27/2018 at 10:09 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the difference is that Breer's comments (as recounted here) put it 100% on Rosen, "he will not allow himself to be coached by...."

Dilfer's comments seem to put it more on "half the coaches in the league" for not being masters of their craft and willing/able to explain it on cue.

 

The reality is likely (IMO) to be somewhere in the middle.

 

That latter is kind of unanswerable at this time, isn't it?  Time will tell.

 

Is a Cam Newton clone good enough?  Beane refers to him as a franchise QB, so he obviously thinks so.  I am personally not a big fan of Newton as a QB.  I don't think he's that accurate, especially when you pressure him.  He needs WR who can make the circus catches with a great vertical leap.  I think it's telling that one of his best seasons was his rookie year - I think as teams got more tape on him, they figured out how to hinder and stop him.
 

But Allen will NOT be a clone for better or for worse.  He may work harder at his craft and progress further.  He may be less able to improve.  Time will tell.

 

 

I don’t agree with your opinion of Cam. 

 

The guy tore the league up in 2015, cruised to the MVP and was very much responsible for putting McBeane in charge here. 

 

He got hurt against Denver week 1 2016 and played through pain the whole year. This past year they were trying to change his play style on the fly, he didn’t have Olsen most of the year and they had no running game. 

 

 

But more to the point Allen fits the mold of guys like Cam, Luck, Wentz. He’s big and athletic enough he can keep plays alive or just move the chains on the ground. Rosen is an incredibly polished passer, but there’s less physical limitations to Allen vs Rosen. 

3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I get the sense that Beane and McDermott would gladly deal with whatever social justice agenda Rosen might follow in exchange for delivering a SB championship to Buffalo.  I think they are both wired to win, and if they felt Rosen was The One he would be a Bill right now.  

 

I am 100% convinced they felt Josh Allen was the guy that could deliver, relative to those available at that point.  I've deduced this by looking at their actions leading up to the selection.  Concussion history seems likely to have been a factor, attitude and how it would play with the team might well have been a factor (Beane indicated they consulted with the leadership council before selecting Allen, perhaps they did the same with respect to Rosen etc all?), frame etc.  

 

 

 

 

The likely reality is the vast majority of teams had Allen above Rosen. 

[bills11]

It's obvious the bills and all the qb needy teams had issues with Rosen's personality ..perhaps he reminds executives of another smug qb Jay Cutler ..but it also could be a thing like Aaron Rodgers who was Cleary the better prospect the Smith but probably turned people off during the process ..Rodgers is a very smug guy like Rosen than can rub ppl the wrong way..former teammates like driver and Jennings don't hold him in the highest regard 

[RocCityRoller]

55 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Does this mean that Rosen will need a stud OL to be successful in the NFL?

 

imo he will need clean pockets and a system based on timing, then he will be excellent if not...

[Peace Frog]

On 4/27/2018 at 12:01 PM, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

The Bills FO/coaching passed on him because they were afraid of a player questioning their stupid moves and game plans. 

 

You're free to be a Cardinals fan if you like Rosen that much and dislike our front office just as equally.

 

 

 

 

On 4/27/2018 at 12:07 PM, bobobonators said:

One sack from Darnold and one from Suh and this bundle of twigs will be left broken in half on the ground. 

 

I agree.  Even Sam Darnold could sack and injury this stick figure of a QB.  Imagine what Aaron Donald and Ndamukong Suh would do to him TWICE a year.  I hope he still has that hot tub; he's gonna need it.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Peace Frog

[Ol Dirty B]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:46 PM, 13player said:

 

4 reasons,

 

2 concussions

1 bum shoulder

1 arrogant SOB with Ryan Leaf Syndrome

 

Even if Allen's a bust and Rosen is great, he is 1 concussion away from the end of the line!

 

 

 

Why do you seem to be so excited by that?

 

It's kind of a caveman mindset and pretty gross.

18 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

 

You're free to be a Cardinals fan if you like Rosen that much and dislike our front office just as equally.

 

Or he's just as free to continue on and like the Bills, but not the stupid decisions they make. Not saying this is one, but given the Bills track record and how these coaches handled the QB position, odds are on the side of those who criticize it. It's an easy take to make and a bit unfair, but it's not wrong yet.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Peace Frog]

11 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Why do you seem to be so excited by that?

 

It's kind of a caveman mindset and pretty gross.

 

Or he's just as free to continue on and like the Bills, but not the stupid decisions they make. Not saying this is one, but given the Bills track record and how these coaches handled the QB position, odds are on the side of those who criticize it. It's an easy take to make and a bit unfair, but it's not wrong yet.

Which stupid decisions are you referring to?

[Ol Dirty B]

7 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Which stupid decisions are you referring to?

 

I was referring to the Bills historically. Not just this regime. If you can go long periods of time without making the playoffs in your franchise history, you made stupid decisions.

 

But since you're trying to twist me into making a point I wasn't I'll throw a few at you.

 

1) Rick Dennison

2) The Peterman game in LA

3) Mike Tolbert being your number 2

4) Chris Ivory being your number 2

5) The management of the WR position since they got here. What are they doing? 

 

So yea, they've made some stupid decisions. They've also made some good ones, the Darby and Tyrod trades especially in my opinion.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Ol Dirty B

[Peace Frog]

34 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I was referring to the Bills historically. Not just this regime. If you can go long periods of time without making the playoffs in your franchise history, you made stupid decisions.

 

But since you're trying to twist me into making a point I wasn't I'll throw a few at you.

 

1) Rick Dennison

2) The Peterman game in LA

3) Mike Tolbert being your number 2

4) Chris Ivory being your number 2

5) The management of the WR position since they got here. What are they doing? 

 

So yea, they've made some stupid decisions. They've also made some good ones, the Darby and Tyrod trades especially in my opinion.

1) Totally agree

2) Tyrod's poor performance the previous two games warranted that desperate move

3) Totally agree

4) He may not be the #2 and is not a bad RB

5) Work in progress.  Better QB makes the WRs look better.

[Peace Frog]

On 4/27/2018 at 12:05 PM, Shaw66 said:

When the Bills were on the clock at 7, I wanted Rosen.  Literally seconds before Goodell made the announcement, I thought "I don't want Rosen, I want Allen."

 

For me, it's attitude, and Rosen demonstrated it again in his comments about making 9 teams pay.   For Rosen, sooner or later it always seems to be about Rosen.   I don't a guy like that.   I want a guy who's always about winning. 

 

Look, Allen went at 7, Rosen at 10.   Which guy had the right, over his entire football career, to feel slighted?   The guy whose nickname in high school, for heaven's sake, was "chosen."   The guy who went to the glamour football school?   The guy who's been all over the media for the past three years?

 

Of the guy who played 8-man football in high school, who was recruited by ZERO Division I schools, the guy who went to junior college and sent 1000 emails to coaches, begging for a shot?   

 

Allen has lived his football life PROVING people wrong.   Rosen has lived his football life reading his press clippings.  

I thought that comment was a bit strange.  Rosen is going to show the previous 9 teams that didn't draft him that they screwed up by defeating them on the field on a consistent basis?  First of all, Josh, there were only 8 teams picking before the Cardinals as Cleveland drafted twice.  Second, apparently, the Giants, Broncos, Colts, Bears, and 49ers didn't want or need a QB so that just leaves 3 teams that you can seek your revenge on.  And since they are all AFC teams and you are on an NFC team, you only get to play them once every four years.  In summation, you may be concussed out of the league by the Rams D-line before you even get to play the Bills, Browns, or Jets.  What an insufferable, self-absorbed, d-bag he is.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

2 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I thought that comment was a bit strange.  Rosen is going to show the previous 9 teams that didn't draft him that they screwed up by defeating them on the field on a consistent basis?  First of all, Josh, there were only 8 teams picking before the Cardinals as Cleveland drafted twice.  Second, apparently, the Giants, Broncos, Colts, Bears, and 49ers didn't want or need a QB so that just leaves 3 teams that you can seek your revenge on.  And since they are all AFC teams and you are on an NFC team, you only get to play them once every four years.  In summation, you may be concussed out of the league by the Rams D-line before you even get to play the Bills, Browns, or Jets.  What an insufferable, self-absorbed, d-bag he is.

I’m not saying that Rosen will be Brady, but I will say that many of the greats are self absorbed d-bags. Brady cries about everyone picked before him to this day. I didn’t mind Rosen’s belligerent swagger a bit. I like Rosen talking about making people pay for not drafting him. It’s not any worse than our QB’s first statements apologizing for stupid tweets he made as kid. 

[Hebert19]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:34 PM, Klaista2k said:

Rosen was talked about as probably the best pure pocket quarterback in the draft. He was available for the Bills to grab but they passed. 

Any options on why exactly we didn't like him?

 

-Injury concerns?

-Attitude?

-Concerns about playing in the cold weather?

-Was he just overrated in general?

 

Thoughts?

2 words.  Sam Bradford.

 

Is that who you want to pin the hopes of your franchise to?