Rochesterfan Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Jackson did not want NFL decision makers to have a 40 time to look at. He wants them to evaluate him as a QB, not a guy who can beat feet with the ball tucked in his arm. The Wonderlic score is not seen as optional for QB, for whatever reason. It's the sort of test where up to a point, test-taking strategy and practice can help you, but if you don't have enough background in the kind of math and problem solving on the test, you're not going to nail it. Agreed - if he put up a great 40 time as he probably would have - it would add to the fire to move him from QB to WR. Nearly all QBs take the wonderlic test. It has become mostly useless in the last 15 years because of prep classes, but the GMs know who is taking the classes and who is not - so in Jackson’s case a lower score is seen as a bad sign. It may be considered equivalent to a 20 on a guy that took prep classes. The GMs use and understand the numbers just as they do for the other combine events. The prep classes have made some workout warriors by teaching techniques to improve 40 times, leaping ability, bench pressing, and various shuttle times. You have to take it all into account because even that can show things like teach ability and attention to detail. I think the wonderlic score hurts, but it will also compare to how he handled the boards at the team meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: It's because rookie contracts are pretty much locked in no matter what. He's not negotiating a lot of things, so he'd rather save the money. It's actually pretty smart in my opinion. I'm not sure what people like you are expecting the agent to do for him in this situation... People do absolutely awful on the Wonderlic with an agent all the time. It's just a way for you all to hate on a guy trying to take an alternative route. He has no need for an agent. Typically an agent will 1st and foremost give him insight into what to expect for both a pro day and the combine and get you tips and pointers on how to be successful. That kind of advice could be invaluable throughout this process and for talented players near the top of the draft - that kind of advice could mean millions of dollars based on draft number rather than negotiating. So he may save a bit of money because of no agent- 3-5%, but if he drops from 12 to late 1st or 2nd round because of the lack o knowledge and prep time - he loses money in the long run. I do no have an issue using his mom as a manager or agent, but then they needed to hire a prep team to get him through this time of year. His lack of preparation for the combine and his average Pro Day combined with teams having difficulties lining up interview and meeting times throw up red flags that will ultimately cost him. Now if that is his plan and he would prefer certain teams later in the first round - then so be it, but If his goal is to get drafted high - he is going about it wrong. A guy like Darnold not only has an agent to schedule everything - they paid to get an outside team to run his ProDay based upon the skills he wanted to show and what worked best. He scripted and planned everything to make himself look the best he could and he was already slated to g top 3. Contrast that to Jackson - who with poor planning struggled with the wonderlic and did not run a 40 time, then has a Pro Day that was average - nothing special that highlighted his abilities, and now the teams are struggling to get in meetings and it has been reported that some teams are not going to meet with him because timing is so tight and he is not putting together a schedule that works. Most of this would have been controlled by an agent or manager with experience with this time of year and he would have come off so much better. Edited March 30, 2018 by Rochesterfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 9 hours ago, Punt75 said: - - - run the 40 yard dash at the NFL combine or at his recent Pro Day??? ALL the combine events are optional. Why take a test that has been proven to be very culturally & racially biased based on an individuals education and life experiences at a young age? All NFL executives know this but get a bit nervous picking a team leader (QB) with a low score. Because everyone knows he's fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bomb Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Punt75 said: - - - run the 40 yard dash at the NFL combine or at his recent Pro Day??? ALL the combine events are optional. Why take a test that has been proven to be very culturally & racially biased based on an individuals education and life experiences at a young age? All NFL executives know this but get a bit nervous picking a team leader (QB) with a low score. Oh give me a break, culturally & racially biased??? Lamar just kinda seems stupid. I mean, you could tell what his score was going to be from the way the dude talks... No way he should be drafted as a QB. Edited March 30, 2018 by T-Bomb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 10 hours ago, Punt75 said: - - - run the 40 yard dash at the NFL combine or at his recent Pro Day??? ALL the combine events are optional. Why take a test that has been proven to be very culturally & racially biased Are you talking about the 40 yard dash? Anyway....yeah, maybe running the 40 would prove that the best/fastest running QB in years coming out of college isn't really that fast!!!! Good point man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 3 threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I agree with you completely, should be. I assume you agree that all political leaders should be well informed, reasonably intelligent, etc etc. Should be just isn't always an apt description of our world. We live in a world where athletically talented young men are offered a full-time job playing football in college, that may, if they're talented enough and avoid injury, allow them to make serious money playing in the NFL. Whatever should be, we all know that educating these guys in a general sense is not a priority. Some of them, who come into college with great time management skills and a strong commitment to education, will be at the college junior level when they've been in college 3 years. Most of them won't be. The real question isn't how high their Wonderlic score may be, it's how quickly they can grasp a playbook, interpret what they see in the field, and react appropriately. Now that may be related to Wonderlic score. Or it may not. Oh, nit - not familiar with a word "stupidness". Last I looked, word was "stupidity". Yeah, it's a minor point, but if you're snarking at someone who doesn't appear to have abilities commensurate with their college year, it looks better if you write correctly yourself. Did you really have to quote his post 4 or 5 times to only to add that bizarro world one liner? I don't want to get too personal here, but if you smell a shooter, perhaps you should trust your intuition and take cover? It's a word. Look it up Edited March 30, 2018 by Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Obviously, he didn't want to run the 40 because he has tunnel vision for playing QB in the NFL, and perceives a good 40 time as encouraging NFL teams to consider him as a WR. As far as taking the Wonderlic goes, he apparently didn't think about how difficult it might be for him. He probably didn't get much or very good advice from his manager (aka. Mom) either. I don't imagine she has a lot of experience in dealing with a lot of young NFL prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: While it may have sounded shrewd in the LJ camp to decline professional representation because the ‘contract is already written’, so to speak, it signals ignorance to the fact the agents job is also to help him get drafted as early/high as possible, because it comes with a bigger paycheck... Agents help the athletes build their “brand”. There is really no other way to slice it, this was a poor choice, unless less his mother is an accomplished talent representative. I expect an agent would have prescreened him on all the combine metrics, for example, identified weaknesses like this test score and connected him with the best help available, to boost it. Did that happen? 13 tells me no. Then there is the noise about his lack of availability. He needs to go get himself a real agent and try to reclaim whatever he can in the next few weeks. I agree, and his mother is clearly NOT an accomplished talent representative with all the right connections. On the other hand, it's a perfectly legal poor choice that does not involve embarrassing behavior, so I do think folks are making too much of it. It's his bed, he made it, he's gotta lie in it. 31 minutes ago, Chimp said: It's a word. Look it up Stupidness? I do usually do my 'homework': There we have it. Non standard English. Recommended as a line for an uneducated character, to emphasize that state. Stated now to be rare. Used in a post deprecating a chap as not possessing the expected attributes of a college junior: the irony, it irons. Edited March 30, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiner13 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 https://samplewonderlictest.com/I just took it and scored a 33? is that good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 the wonderlic means absolutely nothing Jackson gained muscle the last few months, so if he ran the 40 and was slower, they'd all say, see? he shoulda kept the weight down and be a WR, and if he ran fast, they'd all say, see? He gained weight AND speed so he should be a WR. It was a lose-lose for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBear Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I can't put too much stock in the Wonderlic when Jim Kelly scored 15, McNabb 14 and Kaepernick 38. I'm more concerned with how Jackson throws the ball and actually processes things on the field. I do believe he is doing himself a disservice by not hiring an agent, but I guess we won't truly know the answer to that until draft night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said: I can't put too much stock in the Wonderlic when Jim Kelly scored 15, McNabb 14 and Kaepernick 38. I'm more concerned with how Jackson throws the ball and actually processes things on the field. I do believe he is doing himself a disservice by not hiring an agent, but I guess we won't truly know the answer to that until draft night. Apparently It's not just Mayock this is coming from. Concerns about Lamar's agent situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSol Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 3 hours ago, shiner13 said: https://samplewonderlictest.com/I just took it and scored a 33? is that good? I think it depends on your culture and race..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 6 hours ago, mead107 said: 3 threads Wonder how this correlates to a Wonderlic score... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 15 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said: I glanced at it. The thing is that I know A LOT about intelligence tests. Most are very fallible. The Wonderlic more so. I am not some big expert on it but I can tell you NOBODY can refute me about my criticisms of this test and intelligence tests in general because I know the facts. The facts are what I base my opinion on. (...) Anyway, year after year I have to look at those results being bandied around as factual measures. When I know that even much more highly developed tests taking hours are fallible. But this 12 minute test that has nearly no chance of being a quality measure gets talked about like it is a scientifically accurate device. And I know that a high or low result will follow a player forever. It gets annoying for me. But I can't stop it so I will just shut up Oh, I agree with you completely that these tests are not measuring actual intelligence, even less so is the Wonderlic which IMHO is not really an intelligence test at all. It reminds me more of the previous version of the SAT, before they got rid of those odious vocabulary comparisons. The biases of the SAT are well documented. My major disagreement with you was over the "bookish introvert" thing. I don't think the Wonderlic is either designed by, or designed to favor, introverts, or people who are particularly "bookish". But I wouldn't disagree at all that the Wonderlic is not a quality metric of anything, except (like the SAT) socioeconomic status and the effort put into test prep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I agree, and his mother is clearly NOT an accomplished talent representative with all the right connections. On the other hand, it's a perfectly legal poor choice that does not involve embarrassing behavior, so I do think folks are making too much of it. It's his bed, he made it, he's gotta lie in it. Stupidness? I do usually do my 'homework': There we have it. Non standard English. Recommended as a line for an uneducated character, to emphasize that state. Stated now to be rare. Used in a post deprecating a chap as not possessing the expected attributes of a college junior: the irony, it irons. So it's a word then? Thought so. I normally tolerate you but dude, you're a prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 8 hours ago, T-Bomb said: Oh give me a break, culturally & racially biased??? OK. What part would you like broken? I took it twice, last night and this morning. My score doubled - from 21 to 42. (I say this to establish my cred and test-taking chops and that I've actually looked at the Wonderlic test). Give me another shot and a paper test that allows me to skip questions and come back to them and I could probably get higher. It reminded me very much of the SAT before its most recent revisions. And the cultural and racial biases of the SAT are very well established. 8 hours ago, T-Bomb said: Lamar just kinda seems stupid. I mean, you could tell what his score was going to be from the way the dude talks... No way he should be drafted as a QB. OK, then. Gotcha. No cultural and racial biases, can tell he's stupid by how he talks. Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 35 the first time and 39 the second...I'm fully qualified to be an NFL QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 17 hours ago, Bag of Milk said: I love Lamar Jackson as a football player, he is so dynamic and fun to watch, he also seems like a really good kid. Not hiring an agent is going to cost him millions and millions of dollars. Agents do so much more than negotiate a contract, and he is finding that out quite quickly. If you were going to court in a case that could cost you millions, if not tens of millions of dollars would you not hire a lawyers to protect and advocate for your interests? Moms can be a great resource, but an NFL agent/lawyer they do not make. He saves money....dont need an agent...rookie wage scale is set...agent can get no more and costs you 6 percent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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