Chuck Wagon Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Think again. Why would the Colts not take picks from the Jets that they demanded, with little to no cost to the Colts draft board? They'll likely get the same player if they stay at 6, and they are in great position to get more picks from another team if there is a QB on the board. It's a win win for the Colts and virtually risk free. I'm not sure why this is lost on many Bills fans. The Jets got played , not the Bills. The Jets didn't offer anything we couldn't beat. We simply didn't beat their offer and the Colts took it knowing what you said, they can get an elite player at 6 or trade down again. If Beane walks in there with 3 1sts and 2 2nds, the Colts don't say "no, we are just going to move to 6 instead". We didn't beat the Jets offer, the Colts claimed it was because they wanted to move to 6 so they didn't poison the PR well with us in case we are willing to meet the price for 6. 17 minutes ago, Cruiserplayer said: Or he didn’t know if the QB he covets would be there at 3. That's a fair and likely true point. But this narrative the Jets did something we couldn't beat is just BS. Edited March 21, 2018 by Chuck Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: The Jets didn't offer anything we couldn't beat. We simply didn't beat their offer and the Colts took it knowing what you said, they can get an elite player at 6 or trade down again. If Beane walks in there with 3 1sts and 2 2nds, the Colts don't say "no, we are just going to move to 6 instead". We didn't beat the Jets offer, the Colts claimed it was because they wanted to move to 6 so they didn't poison the PR well with us in case we are willing to meet the price for 6. That's a fair and likely true point. But this narrative the Jets did something we couldn't beat is just BS. The Jets didn't do anything the Bills couldn't beat as far as other picks goes. They had the 6th pick and the Bills had 12. End of story. The Colts patiently played their hand and are still playing. They weren't taking the Bills offer unless the Jets dropped out or wouldn't pay what their ransom note demanded . It's not really that hard to figure out. Why would they lock themselves into 12 now? They either stay at 6 and get their target player plus picks for free from the Jets. OR they move back with a QB desperate team during the draft and get picks from two teams. They had nothing to lose by waiting. 15 minutes ago, Cruiserplayer said: Or he didn’t know if the QB he covets would be there at 3. Of course he doesn't know that. He's not clairvoyant. He may have a good idea, but things can change. The draft is a month away. He was willing to make a deal for 3, and the Jets were stuck if they didn't pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: The Jets didn't do anything the Bills couldn't beat as far as other picks goes. They had the 6th pick and the Bills had 12. End of story. The Colts patiently played their hand and are still playing. They weren't taking the Bills offer unless the Jets dropped out or wouldn't pay what their ransom note demanded . It's not really that hard to figure out. Why would they lock themselves into 12 now? They either stay at 6 and get their target player plus picks for free from the Jets. OR they move back with a QB desperate team during the draft and get picks from two teams. They had nothing to lose by waiting. Of course he doesn't know that. He's not clairvoyant. He may have a good idea, but things can change. The draft is a month away. He was willing to make a deal for 3, and the Jets were stuck if they didn't pay up. They wouldn't lock themselves into anything, they could still easily move up or down, but it's naive at best to say the Jets put down an offer we couldn't beat. They gave up 1 first round pick in the transaction. We easily could have mitigated the difference between 6 and 12, or even worked out a deal with another team in the 7-9 range on the side, but we didn't, because we chose not to. Tell yourself what ever you want, we chose not to beat the Jets offer, likely because Beane wasn't comfortable with 3 guys at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: They wouldn't lock themselves into anything, they could still easily move up or down, but it's naive at best to say the Jets put down an offer we couldn't beat. They gave up 1 first round pick in the transaction. We easily could have mitigated the difference between 6 and 12, or even worked out a deal with another team in the 7-9 range on the side, but we didn't, because we chose not to. Tell yourself what ever you want, we chose not to beat the Jets offer, likely because Beane wasn't comfortable with 3 guys at that point. Again I don't think it was an offer the Bills couldn't beat in a literal sense. They couldn't beat it because the Colts didn't want what they were selling. The 6th pick was what they wanted, not 12. Its not as simple as saying the Bills could have just threw another pick on the pile. They didn't possess a high pick, so a deal wasn't being accepted unless the Jets refused to play along. If the Colts move to 12, they're done moving back and getting a ransom of picks in the process. To think they could beat the 6th pick is ignoring the obvious. The difference between 6-12 is not getting possibly the top two players on a teams board. Not happening. If they make that big a move down, they're going to get picks out of two teams not just one. If you think Beane wasn't comfortable at pick 3, why were they talking to the Colts? To force the Jets to move up? Of course not. They need a QB, have a ranking on the QBs, and almost certainly like some QBs that many fans don't . They're going to take a QB in round one, but prepare to be disappointed with their choice. They don't own a top two pick, and the Giants may not be willing to move. Edited March 21, 2018 by Boatdrinks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Again I don't think it was an offer the Bills couldn't beat in a literal sense. They couldn't beat it because the Colts didn't want what they were selling. The 6th pick was what they wanted, not 12. Its not as simple as saying the Bills could have just threw another pick on the pile. They didn't possess a high pick, so a deal wasn't being accepted unless the Jets refused to play along. If the Colts move to 12, they're done moving back and getting a ransom of picks in the process. To think they could beat the 6th pick is ignoring the obvious. The difference between 6-12 is not getting possibly the top two players on a teams board. Not happening. If they make that big a move down, they're going to get picks out of two teams not just one. If you think Beane wasn't comfortable at pick 3, why were they talking to the Colts? To force the Jets to move up? Of course not. They need a QB, have a ranking in QBs, and almost certainly like some QBs that many fans don't . They're going to take a QB in round one, but prepare to be disappointed with their choice. They don't own a top two pick, and the Giants may not be willing to move. Again. If Beane walks in and says "I know the Jets are offering #6 and 3 2nds, but we'll give you 3 1sts and 2 nds", the Colts don't turn that down over the difference between 6 and 12. You are contradicting yourself, you say they werent willing to go 12 over 6 in one line then turn around and say they want picks from two different teams. They are clearly willing to move out of 6, they've said as much, we just would have had to pay the price of two moves. We could have. We chose not to. Edited March 21, 2018 by Chuck Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Again. If Beane walks in and says "I know the Jets are offering #6 and 3 2nds, but we'll give you 3 1sts and 2 nds", the Colts don't turn that down over the difference between 6 and 12. You are contradicting yourself, you say they werent willing to go 12 over 6 in one line then turn around and say they want picks from two different teams. They are clearly willing to move out of 6, they've said as much, we just would have had to pay the price of two moves. We could have. We chose not to. I disagree and I'm not contradicting myself. They weren't willing to lock themselves into 12 , when QB desperate teams will be even more desperate. The Colts chose a no risk move with the Jets at 6, a pick the Bills couldn't possibly offer no matter how hard you try to convince yourself that they could. They are willing to move again if the price is greater, which they forced up by taking the Jets offer. If not they have a no risk move they could live with. Ballard said he's willing to move again if the price is right. That's code for " my price went up". You may say they don't turn the offer down, but they wanted the 6th pick. The Bills couldn't beat that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, kdiggz said: If Giants go QB then we will be hoping a QB drops (I doubt it) or we will need to be ok with Lamar Jackson (I'm not). After 20 yrs I need a QB. It's so painful watching your favorite team when they don't have a QB. Even if we get a guy and we still stink as a team like Stafford in Detroit, it will still be so much more enjoyable and exciting to see a team that can actually throw the ball down the field. If we got to 2 and took Rosen I think I would just collapse and cry tears of joy. It's been so long, it's going to be an emotional moment either way This. This x 1,000 %. I admit it, wholeheartedly, that I too, sit on Sundays, and am filled with jealousy, frustration and anger. Watching quarterbacks sling it down the field with ease, seeing offenses run like powerful yet smooth engines, almost making throwing for 300 yards look effortless, happenstance even.(jealousy) Then I watch our Bills struggle so mightily at times just to get a first down. I watch our QB miss badly on a deep crossing pattern, overthrowing the receiver by 40 yards, then miss on a 7 yard out pattern, chucking the ball at the receivers feet. Then on 3rd down I watch him grossly lead his receiver 3 yards too far on a crossing pattern, getting that receiver instantly decapitated in the process. (frustration) And all I do is think, when will it be our turn? I really do believe this is our year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Not a fan. Slight build and injury prone with a history of concussions. Doesn't seem like a good locker room guy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Sky Diver said: Not a fan. Slight build and injury prone with a history of concussions. Doesn't seem like a good locker room guy either. Rosen has the Best mechanics entering the league in a while. That should count for something. No need to sit him, he's ready now. The rest? Idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I hope so since he is dropping out of college. Started classes in January 2015 and hasn't graduated? Hmm. I thought he was a genius? Edited March 21, 2018 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: Rosen has the Best mechanics entering the league in a while. That should count for something. No need to sit him, he's ready now. The rest? Idk Best mechanics, passing motion, arguably the nicest and fastest release, outstanding vision, understands progressions and stays incredibly cool under duress. Great combo of arm strength and accuracy as well. He just needs to prove the “iron-will” piece to teams and he’ll have a tremendous career ahead of him, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) Had surgery to his throwing shoulder. Recently had two concussions in 4 weeks. Missed the Cactus Bowl. Durability is a big question mark. Edited March 21, 2018 by Sky Diver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Sky Diver said: Not a fan. Slight build and injury prone with a history of concussions. Doesn't seem like a good locker room guy either. Really? How so? Or is it he doesn't like Trump and you're just using this excuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, horned dogs said: Really? How so? Or is it he doesn't like Trump and you're just using this excuse? His personality and ability to get along with his teammates has been a commonly expressed concern. Weaknesses: Durability Has had at least one concussion Has had shoulder, hand injuries Poor intangibles Questionable leadership traits Quality of teammate Different personality; could clash with teammates and coaches Could have problems with the media Read more: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#ixzz5APpvvyhLRead more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#kUTsgaPKJlpCZwKd.99 Let's don't imagine that Rosen is a slam dunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: His personality and ability to get along with his teammates has been a commonly expressed concern. Weaknesses: Durability Has had at least one concussion Has had shoulder, hand injuries Poor intangibles Questionable leadership traits Quality of teammate Different personality; could clash with teammates and coaches Could have problems with the media Read more: http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#ixzz5APpvvyhLRead more at http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php#kUTsgaPKJlpCZwKd.99 Let's don't imagine that Rosen is a slam dunk. Nobody is a slam dunk. But, don't forget how many of his teammates have come forward in support of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Let's put some of this to rest though: Do you think a guy that has had shoulder surgery and concussions would still be around if he didn't in some way love football? Would former teammates and current ones speak highly of him at this juncture when they don't have to? It's the same thing with Mayfield. There are a lot of narratives to dig through to find out what is really the case. And even then you are not going to be 100 percent sure you''ll just have to trust your gut. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Anyone consider this?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Concussions are a legit concern, but i don't put too much stock into his family's affluence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: Let's put some of this to rest though: Do you think a guy that has had shoulder surgery and concussions would still be around if he didn't in some way love football? Would former teammates and current ones speak highly of him at this juncture when they don't have to? It's the same thing with Mayfield. There are a lot of narratives to dig through to find out what is really the case. And even then you are not going to be 100 percent sure you''ll just have to trust your gut. Take the money and run. It's been known to happen. 3 minutes ago, NickelCity said: Concussions are a legit concern, but i don't put too much stock into his family's affluence. He's not as hungry as a guy who is trying to put food on his family's table. 19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Anyone consider this?? Yes, I brought it up a few posts ago, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Anyone consider this?? I have brought it up. Then someone chimes in that I'm looking for a reason not to like Rosen etc. what I think means squat. It could be at least an issue to some team about to make a big investment, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 There are a lot of Rosen homers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Anyone consider this?? The more chatter around this aspect of Rosen's resume, the more I expect him to have a good career...with a team that passed on him for thinking just like Tucker and the other 'gurus' who dwell on his leadership ability. The NFL is littered with stars who fell in the draft (i.e., Rogers, Thurmal) because of doubts about their ability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lurker said: The more chatter around this aspect of Rosen's resume, the more I expect him to have a good career...with a team that passed on him for thinking just like Tucker and the other 'gurus' who dwell on his leadership ability. The NFL is littered with stars who fell in the draft (i.e., Rogers, Thurmal) because of doubts about their ability... The NFL is also littered with stars who drafted high and flopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meazy26 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Hasn’t basically every player who’s ever played football suffered from multiple concussions? Overblown, imo. And Ivy doctor money doesn’t come close to star NFL QB money... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lurker said: The more chatter around this aspect of Rosen's resume, the more I expect him to have a good career...with a team that passed on him for thinking just like Tucker and the other 'gurus' who dwell on his leadership ability. The NFL is littered with stars who fell in the draft (i.e., Rogers, Thurmal) because of doubts about their ability... Interesting. I'm not sure why chatter ( there's always plenty on both sides of these players) would change one's expectation one way or the other. If you tried, you could probably find equal amounts of tweets etc both positive and negative. Most NFL players were passed on by more than one team. It doesn't mean a thing. They can either play or they can't. 1 minute ago, Meazy26 said: Hasn’t basically every player who’s ever played football suffered from multiple concussions? Overblown, imo. And Ivy doctor money doesn’t come close to star NFL QB money... No , it doesn't. But he could have influences from that direction and a high pick still gets a sizeable bonus. Some guys may be more easily swayed into early retirement . We're seeing more of this in the NFL now than in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meazy26 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 If this foolish chatter makes Rosen drop and less expensive in a trade up, I’m game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 20 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Trade us Eli then ! careful this could get you ridiculed and belittled. 20 hours ago, whatdrought said: My mistake. I didn't know you knew for sure. As a member of the Broncos front office he was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Pat Shurmur and Mike Shula from Giants were there today at the Sam Darnold Pro Day and took him out to dinner Monday night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 20 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I wouldn’t hate that I think I would like it as well. Some posters made some valid points to me tho. The compensation might be higher than the value due to age and money. We may not have the supporting cast he would need. Last season showed he can't elevate a team like Rogers or Brady. 20 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I would. He not the prototypical QB that Beane prefers. Smoke screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 33 minutes ago, Lurker said: The more chatter around this aspect of Rosen's resume, the more I expect him to have a good career...with a team that passed on him for thinking just like Tucker and the other 'gurus' who dwell on his leadership ability. The NFL is littered with stars who fell in the draft (i.e., Rogers, Thurmal) because of doubts about their ability... I don't care about that stuff. I'm concerned about his concussion history. I wasn't aware he had two last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 20 hours ago, whatdrought said: I don't much go for the "reports." Also, I have heard that the Jets prefer Allen. It's all relative at this point. It would be hysterical if they took a guy that came out of USC early and was a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: I think I would like it as well. Some posters made some valid points to me tho. The compensation might be higher than the value due to age and money. We may not have the supporting cast he would need. Last season showed he can't elevate a team like Rogers or Brady. Smoke screen? They need to examine all of these guys and I have no doubt that they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 At least we know that Rosen doesn’t fight for Jesus. He’d be a great selection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 19 hours ago, pimp on da' net said: Some TBD members have access to every teams draft boards (sarcasm). High Level Business meetings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Meazy26 said: Hasn’t basically every player who’s ever played football suffered from multiple concussions? Overblown, imo. And Ivy doctor money doesn’t come close to star NFL QB money... Rosen’s family are also the heirs to some pretty decent fortunes, but I still never understood the Rosen doesn’t need the NFL theory. NFL starting QB contracts are a nice deal, and if the dude has any drive at all it would feel good to actually earn his own money. Most NFL QB’s come from decent financially soild backgrounds. Many of these guys would have options outside of football. They might not come from the wealth of Rosen, but none of these guys “need” football to have a decent upper middle class life. The NFL just takes it to a different level. Edited March 21, 2018 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Putin said: That’s what I’m afraid of , I think Jets want Mayfield , If that’s the case ( God please ) anyone but Rosen !!! I wouldn’t even want him at 22 , Not my first choice but if Mayfield, Allen and Rudolph aren't on the board then top ten trade for Rosen works for me. My only concerns there are health and commitment. I just don't want to give up a ton and risk that he has a short career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Anyone consider this?? http://newsok.com/article/5470271 47 minutes ago, kdiggz said: Pat Shurmur and Mike Shula from Giants were there today at the Sam Darnold Pro Day and took him out to dinner Monday night I could certainly see a scenario where Darnold is viewed as the "can't miss" guy of the draft class and once Cleveland announces they are taking him, either formally or informally, the bidding on #2 opens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I have a really tough time believing the Giants will be passing on a QB. This team was 3-13 last year. Yet people think are trying to "win now." Their roster isn't remotely close to Super Bowl level. Eli Manning is 37 years old. He played poorly in 2016 and then played even worse last year. He's done. The Giants are telling everyone one thing, but they are in prime position to take their QB of the future. And they know it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 7 hours ago, Blokestradamus said: It's all a smokescreen because they're drafting Auburn kicker Daniel Carlson at 12. That way we can trade House money for multiple 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts