Ranking of Realistic Veteran QB Options

[IgotBILLStopay]

If they want to move on from TT, Bills face two choices: get a QB in the draft or get a veteran FA (I dont think they do both).

 

This is a ranking of the top free agents / trades for veterans. Clearly a ranking will also depend on what it takes to get it done.

 

With Jimmy G, Alex Smith and Brees off the market, the veteran guys I consider in the tier 1 of QBs are: Cousins, Foles, Keenum, Bridgewater, AJ McCarron & Bradford. Tier 2 would be the  likes of Gabbert, Savage etc. and I do not want to go down a tier 2 route again after Orton fiasco.

 

It is amazing, but despite scouring the internet, I am yet to find a decent comparison of Cousins and Foles, especially w.r.t fit with the Bills roster. 

 

1. Cousins is coming off a third straight 4000 yd type season and is arguably the best pocket passer of the group. What you see is what you get. I saw him against weak defenses or strong and he delivers the same way - there are other Qbs who can shred a bad secondary / pass rush but get killed against a different defense. This guy does his thing whoever the opposition. He has the best pocket poise among the FA crop. In some ways he is the opposite of Tyrod - staying in the pocket or moving around while simultaneously going through the reads till he finds the mismatch or open man. The more I see him, the more I think of him as a poor man's Peyton Manning! While his arm strength will not wow anyone, it is not bad like a Chad Pennington. Ditto for accuracy. It is decent but not Drew Brees like pinpoint precise. But what sets him apart are his intangibles, his decision making and what he does when pressured. The Bills have not had a smart quarterback like him since the Flutie days. And he is a legit 6' 3" - doesnt have any significant downside.

 

Signing him means we keep our first rounders and can build around him. But do we have the receiving Corps to attract him? Maybe tell him our two first rounders are going to be a WR and an OL? Also .. he will get paid with a capital P!! Think 30 mill plus per season with at least 90 mill guaranteed. Personally, I think in a few years that contract for a starting QB will look like a bargain - so, in my mind he is clearly option #1.

 

2. Foles, in many ways might be the most polarizing choice. DO I look at the great season in 2014 or do I look at the two years after that? DO I look at the playoffs or do I look at the regular season games last year? But he will be paid a pittance for next year - so we get a year to evaluate him in our system before throwing him the big bucks. The downside is that it will cost some picks to get him.

 

In terms of Qb play, he is way different from Cousins. He wont be great in every system. An RPO based gameplan is necessary to play to his strengths. His decision making under a one-read RPO is way better than under a multiple read scheme. The problem is that means our personnel have to change their philosophy. For example, under RPO, the OL doent know if they are pass blocking or run blocking. I think Dawkins and MIller will excel in that, but I have my concerns about Cordy, Incognito and especially, MIlls. I admit I have not analyzed this much, but if someone has mor info about the ability of teh offensive line to play RPO, I'd like to hear it. I do believe Benjamin and Deonte Thompson will be great in RPO, but am not sure about Zay.

 

The questions about Foles' fit with the Bills makes him a #2 option behind Cousins.

 

To keep the post short, I will add that my 3,4 5 and 6 will be Keenum, McCarron, Bridgewater and Bradford - with the last two being fine quarterbacks but in that position just because of the injury history.

 

 

 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

......."Bring Him In" threads are forthcoming shortly..........

 

Report: Bears expected to release Mike Glennon

 

Vincent Frank

1 hr ago

 

The entire Mike Glennon experiment in Chicago lasted all but four starts. Less than a year after signing the career backup to a three-year, $45 million contract, the Bears are expected to move on from Glennon completely this offseason.

“The writing is clearly on the wall that Glennon will not be playing in Chicago next season,” ESPN’s Jeff Dickerson reports.

Edited February 14, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[IgotBILLStopay]

By the way, the odds of us getting Cousins are better than most people (beat writers) think.

 

The QB needy teams are Giants, Jets, Browns, Denver, Arizona, Minnesota Buffalo and, maybe, Jacksonville (did I miss somebody?)

 

Browns and Giants will likely go the draft route with this draft class. Also it is unlikely a QB in his prime will opt for the Browns at this point.  Likely DItto for the Jets. The salary cap for Denver, Arizona and Jacksonville is not really conducive to sign a big name QB. They have to release a bunch of players to clear cap space. So despite Von MIller lobbying for Cousins, Denver may be better off going the draft route given they are guaranteed to get one of the top 4 QBs this year. The only note of caution in this argument is that Elway may be a bit wary of the draft given the Paxton Lynch experience, but all told it makes too much sense for Denver to use the draft.

 

So IMO, the real competition is likely to be only MInnesota, who do have 50 mill plus cap space. 

[White Linen]

Why is this a new thread topic?

[IgotBILLStopay]

Quote

Why is this a new thread topic?

I did look but couldnt find a comparison of Foles and Cousins w.r.t Bills needs and fit anywhere.  And of course, if it belongs in a different place, my apologies in advance.

 

Personally, the more I looked at video of Cousins, it became clear why he was a better fit for the Bills and I wanted to share that.

Edited February 14, 2018 by IgotBILLStopay

[greeneblitz]

I hope they don't bring in anyone till at least a couple weeks after the draft, give the 1st round rookie time to assimilate as the defacto day one starter with only him and Peterman on the roster, plus let the market shake out.

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

If they want to move on from TT, Bills face two choices: get a QB in the draft or get a veteran FA (I dont think they do both).

 

This is a ranking of the top free agents / trades for veterans. Clearly a ranking will also depend on what it takes to get it done.

 

With Jimmy G, Alex Smith and Brees off the market, the veteran guys I consider in the tier 1 of QBs are: Cousins, Foles, Keenum, Bridgewater, AJ McCarron & Bradford. Tier 2 would be the  likes of Gabbert, Savage etc. and I do not want to go down a tier 2 route again after Orton fiasco.

 

It is amazing, but despite scouring the internet, I am yet to find a decent comparison of Cousins and Foles, especially w.r.t fit with the Bills roster. 

 

1. Cousins is coming off a third straight 4000 yd type season and is arguably the best pocket passer of the group. What you see is what you get. I saw him against weak defenses or strong and he delivers the same way - there are other Qbs who can shred a bad secondary / pass rush but get killed against a different defense. This guy does his thing whoever the opposition. He has the best pocket poise among the FA crop. In some ways he is the opposite of Tyrod - staying in the pocket or moving around while simultaneously going through the reads till he finds the mismatch or open man. The more I see him, the more I think of him as a poor man's Peyton Manning! While his arm strength will not wow anyone, it is not bad like a Chad Pennington. Ditto for accuracy. It is decent but not Drew Brees like pinpoint precise. But what sets him apart are his intangibles, his decision making and what he does when pressured. The Bills have not had a smart quarterback like him since the Flutie days. And he is a legit 6' 3" - doesnt have any significant downside.

 

Signing him means we keep our first rounders and can build around him. But do we have the receiving Corps to attract him? Maybe tell him our two first rounders are going to be a WR and an OL? Also .. he will get paid with a capital P!! Think 30 mill plus per season with at least 90 mill guaranteed. Personally, I think in a few years that contract for a starting QB will look like a bargain - so, in my mind he is clearly option #1.

 

2. Foles, in many ways might be the most polarizing choice. DO I look at the great season in 2014 or do I look at the two years after that? DO I look at the playoffs or do I look at the regular season games last year? But he will be paid a pittance for next year - so we get a year to evaluate him in our system before throwing him the big bucks. The downside is that it will cost some picks to get him.

 

In terms of Qb play, he is way different from Cousins. He wont be great in every system. An RPO based gameplan is necessary to play to his strengths. His decision making under a one-read RPO is way better than under a multiple read scheme. The problem is that means our personnel have to change their philosophy. For example, under RPO, the OL doent know if they are pass blocking or run blocking. I think Dawkins and MIller will excel in that, but I have my concerns about Cordy, Incognito and especially, MIlls. I admit I have not analyzed this much, but if someone has mor info about the ability of teh offensive line to play RPO, I'd like to hear it. I do believe Benjamin and Deonte Thompson will be great in RPO, but am not sure about Zay.

 

The questions about Foles' fit with the Bills makes him a #2 option behind Cousins.

 

To keep the post short, I will add that my 3,4 5 and 6 will be Keenum, McCarron, Bridgewater and Bradford - with the last two being fine quarterbacks but in that position just because of the injury history.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why do we have the 100th thread on this topic?

 

Second, Tier 1 of current available FA QB's starts and ends with Cousins.

 

Everyone else is Tier 2 or lower.

[IgotBILLStopay]

The Bills  are the perfect landing spot for FOles per this article.

 

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/Headlines/ExternalArticle?articleId=500942

 

Quote

That reality, even if Nick Foles is now a hero in Philadelphia, could very well lead to the team trading him this offseason. 

If they do, it is hard to find a better landing spot for Foles than the Buffalo Bills. 

 

I happen to completely agree with this article. If not the belle of the QB ball this offseason (Cousins), I wouldnt mind Foles as a nice consolation prize.

[KDIGGZ]

Eagles won't get rid of Foles unless a team gives up a TON of picks.  There's no guarantee Wentz will be ready for week 1.  He tore his ACL and LCL and that could take a yr to come back from fully

[corta765]

21 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

......."Bring Him In" threads are forthcoming shortly..........

 

There is a disturbance in the force I have felt it. Loads of "Bring Him In" and "Sign Him Now" threads are in preparation of invading our world

[billsfan89]

 

After Cousins the list of QB's becomes pretty ****ty. Foles isn't on the table and I am not sure I would want him at such a high cost. I think Philly has developed a good QB system that Foles functions well in and I don't think our system would have the same results with him. I think fans have to face the reality that if you don't get Cousins, Tyrod seems like the best "veteran" option out there. Honestly tell me which QB from the list below really is better than Tyrod. 

 

1- Sam Bradford, dude might be a slightly better player when healthy but I am not taking a guy who has missed 3 out of the past 5 seasons due to injury over Tyrod.

2- Casey Keenum, could easily be a one hit wonder and even this past season was more of a conservative QB like Tyrod because Minny's defense was sooo good. 

3- Teddy Bridgewater, 14TD and 9INTs was his best season before his knee !@#$ing exploded. Pass

4- Josh McCown, 39 years old coming off a career year but has been very up and down and you don't take an up and down guy coming off an up. Pass.

5- AJ McCaron Backup QB not really proven much, I don't see the upgrade here and he would cost a lot.

 

The rest of the QB list after Cousins/Foles is pretty ****ty. So think long and hard Tyrod haters about who you specifically would replace Tyrod with. Because while Tyrod has his faults these are QB's aren't that much more inspiring. 

 

That's not to say that if the Bills wiff on Cousins they shouldn't draft a QB fairly high no matter what. They need to draft a QB if Tyrod or another one of these lesser QB's is on their roster as the veteran option. But Tyrod haters seriously overrate these other QB's on the merits of not being Tyrod and not based off their production compared to Tyrods. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by billsfan89

[ndirish1978]

21 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

By the way, the odds of us getting Cousins are better than most people (beat writers) think.

 

The QB needy teams are Giants, Jets, Browns, Denver, Arizona, Minnesota Buffalo and, maybe, Jacksonville (did I miss somebody?)

 

Browns and Giants will likely go the draft route with this draft class. Also it is unlikely a QB in his prime will opt for the Browns at this point.  Likely DItto for the Jets. The salary cap for Denver, Arizona and Jacksonville is not really conducive to sign a big name QB. They have to release a bunch of players to clear cap space. So despite Von MIller lobbying for Cousins, Denver may be better off going the draft route given they are guaranteed to get one of the top 4 QBs this year. The only note of caution in this argument is that Elway may be a bit wary of the draft given the Paxton Lynch experience, but all told it makes too much sense for Denver to use the draft.

 

So IMO, the real competition is likely to be only MInnesota, who do have 50 mill plus cap space. 

 

You're REALLY reading those tea leaves in a way that benefits your goals rather than what is in the best interest for others. Denver can clear cap space rather easily and in big chunks by ditching Talib and some role players and be fine to sign Cousins. There is also no reason a FA QB wouldn't want to sign for the Jets if they want to play in a big market. Cousins will likely wind up in Denver, they already have two excellent WRs waiting for him. 

[IgotBILLStopay]

Looks like there is a lots of momentum from Philly's beat writers and fans regarding a Foles to Bills trade:

 

https://snowballingphiladelphiasports.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/does-foles-to-buffalo-work/

 

Option 3 appears to be very doable.

 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2018/2/19/17029338/5-realistic-trade-locations-packages-nick-foles-eagles-quarterback-philadelphia-bill-polian-news-nfl (Jets)

 

Trade suggested is close to fair

 

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2018/02/are_the_buffalo_bills_the_perfect_landing_spot_for_nick_fole.html

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

I have this hunch that Cousins value is going to drop big time as the free agent season goes along. There are so many other, cheaper options out there and so many rookies in this year’s class. I may be wrong but I don’t think so.

[ddaryl]

15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have this hunch that Cousins value is going to drop big time as the free agent season goes along. There are so many other, cheaper options out there and so many rookies in this year’s class. I may be wrong but I don’t think so.

 

 

When did cheaper = better in regards to the QB position. Any QB making bank at least has proven they can play at the NFL level.. Cheaper just means unproven.

 

Someone like Cousins who has put up top 10 QB numbers for 3 seasons in a row is going to be the prime FA QB acqusistion, and Cousins will get paid very well... This is assuming Brees never hits the market.

Edited February 20, 2018 by ddaryl

[Doc Brown]

On 2/15/2018 at 10:50 AM, kdiggz said:

Eagles won't get rid of Foles unless a team gives up a TON of picks.  There's no guarantee Wentz will be ready for week 1.  He tore his ACL and LCL and that could take a yr to come back from fully

Yeah.  His orthopedic surgeon called the injury the equivalent of RG3.  Even though the Eagles risk getting nothing for Foles next year if they don't trade him this year, they may keep him around just in case.  He's not worth what the Eagles are asking for.

[whatdrought]

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Yeah.  His orthopedic surgeon called the injury the equivalent of RG3.  Even though the Eagles risk getting nothing for Foles next year if they don't trade him this year, they may keep him around just in case.  He's not worth what the Eagles are asking for.

 

Was that his surgeon that referred to it as RG3 level? I saw a write up from a ortho-surgeon who said that he considered it similar though he did not have any insider information but rather was going off of what the team had said. 

39 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Looks like there is a lots of momentum from Philly's beat writers and fans regarding a Foles to Bills trade:

 

https://snowballingphiladelphiasports.wordpress.com/2018/02/19/does-foles-to-buffalo-work/

 

Option 3 appears to be very doable.

 

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2018/2/19/17029338/5-realistic-trade-locations-packages-nick-foles-eagles-quarterback-philadelphia-bill-polian-news-nfl (Jets)

 

Trade suggested is close to fair

 

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2018/02/are_the_buffalo_bills_the_perfect_landing_spot_for_nick_fole.html

 

 

 

 

 

I would love to do 1-22 and 2-21 for Foles and 1-32. Which is slightly different than the option one discussed in the second link.

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Yeah.  His orthopedic surgeon called the injury the equivalent of RG3.  Even though the Eagles risk getting nothing for Foles next year if they don't trade him this year, they may keep him around just in case.  He's not worth what the Eagles are asking for.

 

That was actually another surgeon who said that on WIP in Philly. 

[billsredneck1]

On 2/15/2018 at 11:11 AM, billsfan89 said:

 

After Cousins the list of QB's becomes pretty ****ty. Foles isn't on the table and I am not sure I would want him at such a high cost. I think Philly has developed a good QB system that Foles functions well in and I don't think our system would have the same results with him. I think fans have to face the reality that if you don't get Cousins, Tyrod seems like the best "veteran" option out there. Honestly tell me which QB from the list below really is better than Tyrod. 

 

1- Sam Bradford, dude might be a slightly better player when healthy but I am not taking a guy who has missed 3 out of the past 5 seasons due to injury over Tyrod.

2- Casey Keenum, could easily be a one hit wonder and even this past season was more of a conservative QB like Tyrod because Minny's defense was sooo good. 

3- Teddy Bridgewater, 14TD and 9INTs was his best season before his knee !@#$ing exploded. Pass

4- Josh McCown, 39 years old coming off a career year but has been very up and down and you don't take an up and down guy coming off an up. Pass.

5- AJ McCaron Backup QB not really proven much, I don't see the upgrade here and he would cost a lot.

 

The rest of the QB list after Cousins/Foles is pretty ****ty. So think long and hard Tyrod haters about who you specifically would replace Tyrod with. Because while Tyrod has his faults these are QB's aren't that much more inspiring. 

 

That's not to say that if the Bills wiff on Cousins they shouldn't draft a QB fairly high no matter what. They need to draft a QB if Tyrod or another one of these lesser QB's is on their roster as the veteran option. But Tyrod haters seriously overrate these other QB's on the merits of not being Tyrod and not based off their production compared to Tyrods. 

nathan is a better qb than tyrod

[PolishDave]

On 2/15/2018 at 11:11 AM, billsfan89 said:

1- Sam Bradford, dude might be a slightly better player when healthy but I am not taking a guy who has missed 3 out of the past 5 seasons due to injury over Tyrod.

2- Casey Keenum, could easily be a one hit wonder and even this past season was more of a conservative QB like Tyrod because Minny's defense was sooo good. 

3- Teddy Bridgewater, 14TD and 9INTs was his best season before his knee !@#$ing exploded. Pass

4- Josh McCown, 39 years old coming off a career year but has been very up and down and you don't take an up and down guy coming off an up. Pass.

5- AJ McCaron Backup QB not really proven much, I don't see the upgrade here and he would cost a lot.

 

 

#4 - Your reasoning for number 4 is completely unfounded and utterly ridiculous.    

If you want a pocket passer (which Beane says they do) then McCown is a definite upgrade.

If you want a veteran passer to teach your rookie - McCown is probably a much better example than any existing QB the Bills have on the roster including Taylor.

 

#5 - If you don't see an upgrade in the passing game between AJ McCarron and Tyrod Taylor then you haven't watched any of AJ McCarron's playing time.   Go watch some and your mind will change.

 

On 2/15/2018 at 11:11 AM, billsfan89 said:

 But Tyrod haters seriously overrate these other QB's on the merits of not being Tyrod and not based off their production compared to Tyrods. 

 

I certainly am not a Tyrod hater.   I think he is the most misused QB I have ever seen on the Bills roster - or perhaps any roster - and I have stuck up for the guy ad nauseum for the last few years.      

 

You are assuming that people who want to move on from Tyrod are "haters".    And you are wrong about most of us I think.

 

The primary reason people want to move on from Tyrod is because they have lost all or most of whatever confidence they had in his ability to execute a traditional NFL passing attack.     And we know (based on this past year) that this coaching staff has no desire to design an offense that Tyrod is likely to excel in.   Therefore, it is utterly a waste of roster space to have a guy who 1) very likely won't be able to execute the passing game well this year on this team and 2) isn't the best example for a rookie to learn from.   He simply does not fit this team's schematic game plan.   Pointless to have him here at all under these circumstances and a waste of money as well.

 

If you don't think guys like McCown, McCarron, Bridgewater, Keenum and Bradford aren't better traditional pocket passers (what Beane wants) than Taylor - then you have fully pulled the wool over your eyes.