Ranking of Realistic Veteran QB Options

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

 

When did cheaper = better in regards to the QB position. Any QB making bank at least has proven they can play at the NFL level.. Cheaper just means unproven.

 

Colin Kaapernick is much more proven AND much cheaper than Kirk. (1-1 conference championship games vs 1 18 point butt whooping in round 1) 72 TDs 30 picks.

 

Bring in Colin. Bring back Hotrod. Draft someone.  Let 'em compete. Best QB plays.

Edited February 20, 2018 by reddogblitz

[Punching Bag]

On 2/14/2018 at 1:40 PM, IgotBILLStopay said:

By the way, the odds of us getting Cousins are better than most people (beat writers) think.

 

The QB needy teams are Giants, Jets, Browns, Denver, Arizona, Minnesota Buffalo and, maybe, Jacksonville (did I miss somebody?)

 

Jacksonville signed 5th round extension on QB; they are not in market for a veteran QB.

On 2/14/2018 at 9:13 PM, greeneblitz said:

I hope they don't bring in anyone till at least a couple weeks after the draft, give the 1st round rookie time to assimilate as the defacto day one starter with only him and Peterman on the roster, plus let the market shake out.

1st round pick's arm will get tired.

Peteredman's job is to throw balls to DBs.

[Chuck Wagon]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:25 PM, White Linen said:

Why is this a new thread topic?

 

 

1)  Because people don't read other posts

 

2) Because people know people don't read other posts, so they start a new thread so people will comment on their amazing analysis, opposed to posting in a running thread and largely getting ignored.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Jacksonville signed 5th round extension on QB; they are not in market for a veteran QB.

 

 

 

...isn't the $19 mil an "injury only guarantee"?......how does that affect their ability to move on from Bortles?............

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...isn't the $19 mil an "injury only guarantee"?......how does that affect their ability to move on from Bortles?............

 

It doesn't, as long as he's 100% recovered from wrist surgery that he had in January. 

[Punching Bag]

58 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Colin Kaapernick is much more proven AND much cheaper than Kirk. (1-1 conference championship games vs 1 18 point butt whooping in round 1) 72 TDs 30 picks.

 

Bring in Colin. Bring back Hotrod. Draft someone.  Let 'em compete. Best QB plays.

 

Colin Kaepernick has not shown much last few years.  Last time he was effective was 2013-2014 and I think it was coaching specific and before he went vegan and lost a lot of muscle mass.

[reddogblitz]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Colin Kaepernick has not shown much last few years.  Last time he was effective was 2013-2014 and I think it was coaching specific and before he went vegan and lost a lot of muscle mass.

 

Thanks for the correction.

 

But I don't think what you said is necessarily true.  In 2016 in 11 starts, he threw 16 TDs and 4 picks and ran for 488 yards. 

 

I believe the man can still play.  Sign him up.

[Punching Bag]

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...isn't the $19 mil an "injury only guarantee"?......how does that affect their ability to move on from Bortles?............

 

It is guaranteed on the first day of the 2018 league year, which starts at 4 p.m. (ET) on March 14.  Legally they cannot negotiate with QB like Cousins without violating rules.  This means they have to let go Bortles first and I do not think their conservative GM will do that.

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, PolishDave said:

 

#4 - Your reasoning for number 4 is completely unfounded and utterly ridiculous.    

If you want a pocket passer (which Beane says they do) then McCown is a definite upgrade.

If you want a veteran passer to teach your rookie - McCown is probably a much better example than any existing QB the Bills have on the roster including Taylor.

 

#5 - If you don't see an upgrade in the passing game between AJ McCarron and Tyrod Taylor then you haven't watched any of AJ McCarron's playing time.   Go watch some and your mind will change.

 

 

I certainly am not a Tyrod hater.   I think he is the most misused QB I have ever seen on the Bills roster - or perhaps any roster - and I have stuck up for the guy ad nauseum for the last few years.      

 

You are assuming that people who want to move on from Tyrod are "haters".    And you are wrong about most of us I think.

 

The primary reason people want to move on from Tyrod is because they have lost all or most of whatever confidence they had in his ability to execute a traditional NFL passing attack.     And we know (based on this past year) that this coaching staff has no desire to design an offense that Tyrod is likely to excel in.   Therefore, it is utterly a waste of roster space to have a guy who 1) very likely won't be able to execute the passing game well this year on this team and 2) isn't the best example for a rookie to learn from.   He simply does not fit this team's schematic game plan.   Pointless to have him here at all under these circumstances and a waste of money as well.

 

If you don't think guys like McCown, McCarron, Bridgewater, Keenum and Bradford aren't better traditional pocket passers (what Beane wants) than Taylor - then you have fully pulled the wool over your eyes.

 

3

 

I am not assuming that because someone wants Tyrod gone that they are a Tyrod hater. I think that no matter what you need a viable rookie QB brought in if you can't land Cousins. I have seen some people seriously say that a player like Drew !@#$ing Stanton would be a better option for this team than Tyrod, now I know that isn't the norm but there are some people on this board who hate Tyrod so much that not being Tyrod qualifies you to be an upgrade at QB. 

 

I get what you are saying about other QB's being better pocket passers, but even in that context, I don't think you toss away a pretty good QB because he doesn't fit your system. I think you build your system around the talent you have, building your talent around a system is a recipe for disaster.

 

Yes I think most of those QB's are better "Pocket Passers" (Although I would disagree about Keenum and Bridgewater I think they suck out of the pocket) but Bradford comes with serious durability issues and McCown comes with serious age and general performance issues. McCarron is a bit of an unknown overall and I am not sold on pouring a fairly big contract with a good chunk guaranteed into a player like him. So even if you are desperate for a pocket passer I am not really that inspired by those options compared to the skillset offered by Tyrod. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by billsfan89

[TigerJ]

On 2/14/2018 at 1:40 PM, IgotBILLStopay said:

By the way, the odds of us getting Cousins are better than most people (beat writers) think.

 

The QB needy teams are Giants, Jets, Browns, Denver, Arizona, Minnesota Buffalo and, maybe, Jacksonville (did I miss somebody?)

 

Browns and Giants will likely go the draft route with this draft class. Also it is unlikely a QB in his prime will opt for the Browns at this point.  Likely DItto for the Jets. The salary cap for Denver, Arizona and Jacksonville is not really conducive to sign a big name QB. They have to release a bunch of players to clear cap space. So despite Von MIller lobbying for Cousins, Denver may be better off going the draft route given they are guaranteed to get one of the top 4 QBs this year. The only note of caution in this argument is that Elway may be a bit wary of the draft given the Paxton Lynch experience, but all told it makes too much sense for Denver to use the draft.

 

So IMO, the real competition is likely to be only MInnesota, who do have 50 mill plus cap space. 

I expect Minnesota will make an effort to re-sign their first choice from among Keenum, Bradford and Bridgewater before free agency begins.  If Minnesota actually did target Cousins, that would mean Buffalo could make a very competitive offer to their choice of the three QBs Minnesota would b parting with.

Edited February 21, 2018 by TigerJ

[26CornerBlitz]

Noooooooooo!

Josh McCown, Buffalo Bills, 2 years, $24 million ($14 million fully guaranteed)

 

Not even going to lie: For about half a second, I thought McCown had played a season or two for the Bills. But lo, that’s one of the few teams for which he has not suited up yet, and yet this would be a nice situation for him to fall into with the Bills potentially gearing up for drafting a QB high.

 

New offensive coordinator Brian Daboll will want a high-IQ leader at the position, and head coach Sean McDermott could do far worse than to have McCown take over now and be ready to help groom whomever the Bills draft.

[Green Lightning]

4 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Colin Kaapernick is much more proven AND much cheaper than Kirk. (1-1 conference championship games vs 1 18 point butt whooping in round 1) 72 TDs 30 picks.

 

Bring in Colin. Bring back Hotrod. Draft someone.  Let 'em compete. Best QB plays.

Yeah he's proven that he can't pass accurately or from the pocket. We already have that. He's also proven to bring a circus with him. Let's do better.

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

Yeah he's proven that he can't pass accurately or from the pocket. We already have that. He's also proven to bring a circus with him. Let's do better.

 

I just hope we don't end up getting worse.  

 

I disagree. He could pass and I believe still can based on 2016.

 

I think Coach McDermott could handle a circus.

Edited February 21, 2018 by reddogblitz

[26CornerBlitz]

Williamson | Pro scouting the 2018 QB free agent class - NDT Scouting

Below are the ten best pending free agent Quarterbacks of 2018. This is an usually talented group for the open market:

[PolishDave]

4 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I am not assuming that because someone wants Tyrod gone that they are a Tyrod hater. I think that no matter what you need a viable rookie QB brought in if you can't land Cousins. I have seen some people seriously say that a player like Drew !@#$ing Stanton would be a better option for this team than Tyrod, now I know that isn't the norm but there are some people on this board who hate Tyrod so much that not being Tyrod qualifies you to be an upgrade at QB. 

 

I get what you are saying about other QB's being better pocket passers, but even in that context, I don't think you toss away a pretty good QB because he doesn't fit your system. I think you build your system around the talent you have, building your talent around a system is a recipe for disaster.

 

Yes I think most of those QB's are better "Pocket Passers" (Although I would disagree about Keenum and Bridgewater I think they suck out of the pocket) but Bradford comes with serious durability issues and McCown comes with serious age and general performance issues. McCarron is a bit of an unknown overall and I am not sold on pouring a fairly big contract with a good chunk guaranteed into a player like him. So even if you are desperate for a pocket passer I am not really that inspired by those options compared to the skillset offered by Tyrod. 

 

Ok.  I get ya.

 

As far as building around the talent you have goes, this staff isn't that kind of staff.   They didn't do it with Tyrod.    They tried to force him to be something he isn't.    

 

Back in the (I think) 3rd preseason game (second one in Buffalo last year) , Dennison made Tyrod be a pocket passer.    They said they were intentionally forcing him to do something they knew he wasn't comfortable with to see how he would handle it.    And he sucked beyond belief.    And that was preseason.    How could they possibly think it would be better during the regular season.   

 

Yet, they allowed teams to "let" him stay in the pocket.  

 

If they didn't tweak the team to Tyrod's strengths last year, I think they would be exponentially less likely to do it this year.    And if they aren't going to do it, then he is destined to be a pretty bad quarterback on this team.    For that reason alone, I think it would be insane for them not to move on completely.    

 

And there are more reasons beyond that.

 

This head coach is a hardcore system guy.   He calls it "the process".  - Which is actually a code name for strong defense and traditionally conservative football.   It is not the type of football that would focus on unleashing individually talented players dominating their position in nontraditional ways.   He wants drone players that you can swap in and out at will that win because they make no mistakes and play better as a team.   He does not want "out of the box" style players who need to do things differently or "their own way" in order to be great.   

 

And Tyrod is the epitome of guys that can dominate if and only if you set him up to do it his way - which is to beat his opponent athletically.

 

[SoTier]

Can somebody please explain to me why AJ McCarron is being grouped and discussed as being close in stature with Cousins, Keenum, Bridgewater, and Bradford, all four of whom had at least 1 full season as starter? 

 

McCarron was a fifth round pick who has done nothing to distinguish himself in the NFL.   He has played in all of 7 games in 2015, starting 3 and throwing 79 completions from 119 attempts for 6 TDs and 2 INTs.   In 2016, McCarron played in 1 game and made no pass attempts.  In 2017, he played in 3 games and threw 7 passes in 14 attempts with no TDs and INTs.  That McCarron was almost traded to Cleveland doesn't improve his stature since all it does is prove that Cinci didn't think highly enough of him to keep him.

[PolishDave]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Can somebody please explain to me why AJ McCarron is being grouped and discussed as being close in stature with Cousins, Keenum, Bridgewater, and Bradford, all four of whom had at least 1 full season as starter? 

 

McCarron was a fifth round pick who has done nothing to distinguish himself in the NFL.   He has played in all of 7 games in 2015, starting 3 and throwing 79 completions from 119 attempts for 6 TDs and 2 INTs.   In 2016, McCarron played in 1 game and made no pass attempts.  In 2017, he played in 3 games and threw 7 passes in 14 attempts with no TDs and INTs.  That McCarron was almost traded to Cleveland doesn't improve his stature since all it does is prove that Cinci didn't think highly enough of him to keep him.

 

I don't think people are comparing him talent wise to any of those guys.      Availability wise yes.   Talent wise no.

 

AJ's upside is unknown because he hasn't got his shot yet.   He hasn't proven what he is yet.    The unknown factor is what is most exciting about him.

 

If Cleveland makes him a big offer, that will suggest that he was probably pushing Dalton for starting QB.    If Cleveland doesn't make a decent offer, then it will remain questionable.

 

He certainly hasn't proven himself to be a bust yet.   He could be an up and comer  or he could just remain a backup.   Time will tell.

[ALF]

Overpaying for AJ McCarron Would Mark a New Low in NFL QB Desperation

 

Step right up, one and all, because AJ McCarron is here to inject some unwise quarterback spending into free agency. Which means he's about to make sure all is right in the NFL universe and a sense of normalcy has been restored.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759826-overpaying-for-aj-mccarron-would-mark-a-new-low-in-nfl-qb-desperation?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[PolishDave]

3 minutes ago, ALF said:

Overpaying for AJ McCarron Would Mark a New Low in NFL QB Desperation

 

Step right up, one and all, because AJ McCarron is here to inject some unwise quarterback spending into free agency. Which means he's about to make sure all is right in the NFL universe and a sense of normalcy has been restored.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759826-overpaying-for-aj-mccarron-would-mark-a-new-low-in-nfl-qb-desperation?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

 

Assuming he doesn't get a long term contract (which is a realistic assumption considering he isn't proven), I think it is possible a team like the Bills could get him on a very short - one year with an option - "prove it" contract like they did with Taylor.     

 

If you are drafting a QB anyway and you want a bridge guy that has potential upside, he makes sense.    And he makes sense because he is a pocket passer as Beane has said he wants to get.

 

If the guy doesn't play well in year 1 - see ya.  Rookie plays end of season or next year.   If McCarron plays well, then whatever team has him on a short term deal with another QB in the wings - is sitting in pretty.

 

There is risk because you don't know his downside.   But there is potentially big reward if you find out this guy should have been starting over Dalton.

 

Good fit for a team that is drafting a QB anyway assuming you can get him on a short "prove it" contract.

[SoTier]

40 minutes ago, ALF said:

Overpaying for AJ McCarron Would Mark a New Low in NFL QB Desperation

 

Step right up, one and all, because AJ McCarron is here to inject some unwise quarterback spending into free agency. Which means he's about to make sure all is right in the NFL universe and a sense of normalcy has been restored.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759826-overpaying-for-aj-mccarron-would-mark-a-new-low-in-nfl-qb-desperation?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

 

Good article, Alf!  McCarron makes Garoppolo look like a grizzled veteran with his 7 starts!

 

29 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

Assuming he doesn't get a long term contract (which is a realistic assumption considering he isn't proven), I think it is possible a team like the Bills could get him on a very short - one year with an option - "prove it" contract like they did with Taylor.     

 

If you are drafting a QB anyway and you want a bridge guy that has potential upside, he makes sense.    And he makes sense because he is a pocket passer as Beane has said he wants to get.

 

If the guy doesn't play well in year 1 - see ya.  Rookie plays end of season or next year.   If McCarron plays well, then whatever team has him on a short term deal with another QB in the wings - is sitting in pretty.

 

There is risk because you don't know his downside.   But there is potentially big reward if you find out this guy should have been starting over Dalton.

 

Good fit for a team that is drafting a QB anyway assuming you can get him on a short "prove it" contract.

 

Well, I hope that team isn't the Bills.  I'd rather keep Peterman and draft a rookie because Peterman would be a whole lot cheaper, and I've been a loud advocate of upgrading from Peterman if possible.  We've seen the worse of Peterman but who knows how bad McCarron could be if he started several games.  The Bills don't need to reprise 2013. 

 

If the best the Bills can do is McCarron, then they'd be better served keeping Taylor for $18+ million a year rather than paying McCarron plus eating nearly $9 million of Taylors dead cap money.

Edited February 21, 2018 by SoTier