GreggTX Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Backup Center is not a great starting center. We literally lost the Seattle game because Groy had to play. He was a revolving door out there at times and was a better G than C IMO. We need a center. i don’t want one in the first, and only seen one mock that had us taking one in first, but we need one none the less. This OL is a terrible pass blocking OL and now we lost Wood, so it needs to be addressed and Groy isn’t the answer. I agree that our pass blocking needs to improve, but having a QB that is quick witted and gets rid of the ball on time would be a big help. We're actually worse at run blocking as a whole. Dawkins is the obviour exception there. Not sure about Ducasse or Miller, but neither of them is any good anyways. Edited February 7, 2018 by GreggTX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 35 minutes ago, GreggTX said: I agree that our pass blocking needs to improve, but having a QB that is quick witted and gets rid of the ball on time would be a big help. We're actually worse at run blocking as a whole. Dawkins is the obviour exception there. Not sure about Ducasse or Miller, but neither of them is any good anyways. Well we put Peterman out there to do just that, get rid of the ball quick. And the defense was in our backfield before he could complete a drop back. I do agree that the line needs help with run blocking too, but this OL is a very poor pass blocking unit and its literally one of the worst areas of the whole team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Agree on Groy. Give Miller another shot. Trade down at least twice in first 3 rounds Draft BPA. I think they fill no less than four starting spots in FA - four of f these five LB, DT, RT, QB, QB Then draft TE, LB, DT, DE, QB, WR, C/G 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I disagree about that Seattle game. The Bills lost that game because of Jordan Mills. I will never forget that last series........IMO it is the gold standard of poor pass blocking from the RT position. Ryan Groy was excellent the rest of the season. Better than Wood had played and better than Wood played this year. I think there is some truth in what both of you say. Groy was rough coming off the bench in Seattle and got blown off the ball a couple of times, especially when the Bills tried to run. The reason they lost in the end though was the oft seen combo of Tyrod holding it too long and Jordan Mills not holding it (his block) long enough. But Badol is right.... after that the rest of the 2016 season Groy performed at a higher level than Wood had to that point. When they decided to match the Rams tender on Groy I assumed they were going to cut ties with Wood after 2017 and let 2018 be Groy's audition for the full time starter job. Then they extended Wood which confused me a little - not that they could have predicted the injury. I am not sure where Alpha gets the "better at G" thing from. To the best of my knowledge Groy's snaps at guard for the Bills are limited to half a dozen in a game where Richie went out earlier in the year when he split time with Dawkins for a series. He also played some guard in the 2016 pre-season when they still had Patrick Lewis and mt recollection of that was he was bad. I clearly remember in my pre-season "Good Night / Bad Night" series saying he was failing to impress. Groy might be a better G than C.... I don't know... because the Bills have never really tried the former. As for how they replace Wood long term I am in the "Groy and a later round rookie" camp. However, I did an analysis earlier in the year on how Carolina invested both picks and cap in certain positions when Beane was a key FO decision maker and Center featured high up the list. I would not be surprised if they go there early in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I think there is some truth in what both of you say. Groy was rough coming off the bench in Seattle and got blown off the ball a couple of times, especially when the Bills tried to run. The reason they lost in the end though was the oft seen combo of Tyrod holding it too long and Jordan Mills not holding it (his block) long enough. But Badol is right.... after that the rest of the 2016 season Groy performed at a higher level than Wood had to that point. When they decided to match the Rams tender on Groy I assumed they were going to cut ties with Wood after 2017 and let 2018 be Groy's audition for the full time starter job. Then they extended Wood which confused me a little - not that they could have predicted the injury. I am not sure where Alpha gets the "better at G" thing from. To the best of my knowledge Groy's snaps at guard for the Bills are limited to half a dozen in a game where Richie went out earlier in the year when he split time with Dawkins for a series. He also played some guard in the 2016 pre-season when they still had Patrick Lewis and mt recollection of that was he was bad. I clearly remember in my pre-season "Good Night / Bad Night" series saying he was failing to impress. Groy might be a better G than C.... I don't know... because the Bills have never really tried the former. As for how they replace Wood long term I am in the "Groy and a later round rookie" camp. However, I did an analysis earlier in the year on how Carolina invested both picks and cap in certain positions when Beane was a key FO decision maker and Center featured high up the list. I would not be surprised if they go there early in the draft. If they do invest highly in a center I would expect it to be a c/og. Price played OG until this season. He and Groy can fill C and RG (in one form or fashion). Regardless of the player the Bills will draft a guy with some versatility. A lot of the OL will come down to what they do with Glenn. If he is healthy and they move him to RT the OL could be really good. The Bills can waive goodbye to Vlad and Mills while freeing up about $3.5M in cap space if they choose (about the same cap savings as Glenn going). Maybe they let those 2 go and try to sign a guy like Jonathan Cooper with the savings? They could add a swing tackle (Ty Nsekhe) and a swing interior guy (draft) and be done. Dawkins- Richie - Groy - Cooper - Glenn bench: Miller, Nsekhe, Ragnow Just thinking out loud on ways to upgrade and balance the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: If they do invest highly in a center I would expect it to be a c/og. Price played OG until this season. He and Groy can fill C and RG (in one form or fashion). Regardless of the player the Bills will draft a guy with some versatility. A lot of the OL will come down to what they do with Glenn. If he is healthy and they move him to RT the OL could be really good. The Bills can waive goodbye to Vlad and Mills while freeing up about $3.5M in cap space if they choose (about the same cap savings as Glenn going). Maybe they let those 2 go and try to sign a guy like Jonathan Cooper with the savings? They could add a swing tackle (Ty Nsekhe) and a swing interior guy (draft) and be done. Dawkins- Richie - Groy - Cooper - Glenn bench: Miller, Nsekhe, Ragnow Just thinking out loud on ways to upgrade and balance the OL. I have different names attached to the new guys, but in general I agree with that approach. I'm happy going into the offseason with a starting lineup of Dawkins-Richie-Groy-Miller-Glenn. My swing interior guy would be Zach Fulton; he'll be inexpensive and has experience at both guard and center. I'd like to draft a tackle in the mid-rounds, but if I go FA then a guy like Waddle might make some sense. I also think it's not outside the realm of reality that they simply let Mills and McDermott battle it out for the swing OT job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 16 hours ago, SoTier said: Groy has more "SOLID experience and DEMONSTRATED results" than 2 Pro Bowl LGs (Ruben Brown, Richie Incognito) or a future HOF LT (Jason Peters) or one of the NFL's solid starting LTs (Cordy Glenn)? Really? Or were you referring to Langston Walker and/or Bennie Anderson? Walker was a starting OT for 4 of his 9 NFL seasons with Oakland and the Bills. Bennie Anderson was a five year NFL starter with Baltimore and the Bills. Groy's "SOLID experience and DEMONSTRATED results" consists of playing in 41 games over 4 seasons, starting 11 of them. He started 7 games in 2016 and 1 game in 2017 for the Bills because Wood was injured. He's a backup who hasn't demonstrated that he can be a full time quality starter. We can agree to disagree then......8 starts and he played very well isn't like some journeyman player coming in and trying to take over a position. The guy has been here on the roster and knows the team well - did I SAY he was better that Brown or Richie? No. Did I say he was better than Peters? No. Did I say he was better than Glenn? No. Don't put words in my mouth so you can make your case. I NEVER said he was better than any of those players - I just agreed with the OP that the Bills have a Center in house and they don't need to waste a high pick on a C/G when they have other more pressing needs. Do the Bills need to draft another Dion? You betcha they do. BUT they have a perfectly serviceable player ON the roster now. Your reading comprehension needs some work - don't tell me I said something I didn't.....read, think, then type. Obviously you do not agree with my thoughts nor the OP's, your choice, just don't tell me I said crap that I CLEARLY didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 27 minutes ago, Kwai San said: We can agree to disagree then......8 starts and he played very well isn't like some journeyman player coming in and trying to take over a position. The guy has been here on the roster and knows the team well - did I SAY he was better that Brown or Richie? No. Did I say he was better than Peters? No. Did I say he was better than Glenn? No. Don't put words in my mouth so you can make your case. I NEVER said he was better than any of those players - I just agreed with the OP that the Bills have a Center in house and they don't need to waste a high pick on a C/G when they have other more pressing needs. Do the Bills need to draft another Dion? You betcha they do. BUT they have a perfectly serviceable player ON the roster now. Your reading comprehension needs some work - don't tell me I said something I didn't.....read, think, then type. Obviously you do not agree with my thoughts nor the OP's, your choice, just don't tell me I said crap that I CLEARLY didn't. Just wanted to say that I love the avatar. I had it on Christmas and it was fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 23 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I think if the Bills take a Center early, it will be one who can also play Guard, will be no earlier than the 2nd, and will be a BPA situation (ie Billy Price is there in the 2nd) Groy is the starting center for this team. If they draft a center early is has to be a player they want to kick out to guard or they want to kick Groy out to guard. They aren't spending a premium pick on a center just to have Groy remain the backup center. This team will likely have a lot of needs going into the draft and they can't afford to waste premium picks to ensure that we have good depth at the center position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Ryan Groy Verified account @disGROYer79 Went to first ever yoga class this morning. Went to do an inverted chair headstand and completely crushed the metal chair into pieces and crashed to the ground...talk about a stress relieving session! #300lbweightlimit #yoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 11 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I am not sure where Alpha gets the "better at G" thing from. To the best of my knowledge Groy's snaps at guard for the Bills are limited to half a dozen in a game where Richie went out earlier in the year when he split time with Dawkins for a series. He also played some guard in the 2016 pre-season when they still had Patrick Lewis and mt recollection of that was he was bad. I clearly remember in my pre-season "Good Night / Bad Night" series saying he was failing to impress. Groy might be a better G than C.... I don't know... because the Bills have never really tried the former. As for how they replace Wood long term I am in the "Groy and a later round rookie" camp. However, I did an analysis earlier in the year on how Carolina invested both picks and cap in certain positions when Beane was a key FO decision maker and Center featured high up the list. I would not be surprised if they go there early in the draft. Your recollection on Groy at guard is correct, he was AWFUL at G in the preseason of 2016. But he was excellent at C over a long stretch of games. It's not the small sample size that we had with Colin Brown.......who showed enough promise at center to get a short extension.......but was then an abomination as a guard replacing Levitre. People might not like to hear it but your center can be your least talented OL and still be a good center. Honestly Eric Wood couldn't have played right tackle better than Jordan Mills. He probably wouldn't have been a better OG than John Miller. It's extra hard for me to justify using an early pick on the position that has the lowest physical requirements for success on the OL. Speaking of Levitre........he is exactly why it's not the wisest use of early picks to draft interior OL early. If you aren't willing to pay a player the open market value when they pan out.......even when you don't have a good replacement on the roster........then that position just isn't worth using blue personnel chips on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Just wanted to say that I love the avatar. I had it on Christmas and it was fantastic. If you haven't had it yet - Try Space Kitty from Rohrbach Brewing. Equally good!!! AND MUCH cheaper!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: As for going Center early in the draft, I'll be somewhat disappointed for a couple reasons. One, they should trade up and grab a top QB. Two, they should use the rest of what they have available with draft picks on the front 7 or WR position, IMO. Those two aspects of the team are in need of MUCH more of a fix than center, where Wood was mostly average. The WR corps and front seven is below average to bad. Obviously that all depends on what they do in FA. I would too. I just think they might given the history of the organisation they came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Price and Wynn, a couple names that have been projected to the Bills can probably also play guard. Wynn might even be able to play some left tackle even though he's pretty short for the position. He did that for the Georgia Bulldogs. I'd be a bit surprised if the Bills go that route, however. f they draft a guard/center, it will be later in the draft. More people than not assume Groy is going to step in at starting center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I'd be okay with this: Dawkins-Incognito-Groy-draft pick_vs_Ducasse_vs_Miller-Hubbard(PIT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Probably in the minority, but I was upset we resigned Wood due to the fact that i wanted Groy to get in there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Yup and Daboll run scheme should suit him better than Dennisons... I actually prefer Groy over Wood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 On 2/7/2018 at 4:49 AM, buffalostu2 said: I think it was drafting for scheme, not need, wasn't it? Nope. The problem was drafting badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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