Jackson, Rudolph or Pass

[NewEra]

I don’t necessarily want Jackson, I just don’t want Rudolph (as everyone knows by now).  Can’t see McBeane ever drafting Jackson though.  

[Gordio]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I didn’t say that it was a bad year but I think that they would absolutely be disappointed to not be in a New Year’s 6 Bowl. 

 

He played okay in those games but did turn it over 7 times.

 

 

You could say the same thing for Darnold, Rosen, Jackson & Allen.  None of those teams had great years either & to a certain extent all those teams underachieved based on preseason projections. 

[Bray Wyatt]

If all of what you say happens, that is the worst case scenario for the bills imo. I am not going to pick a qb just to pick one a la EJ. Assuming we dont trade back to acquire more picks (maybe get a first next year again?), id rather see them roll with peterman and one of the stop gap guys. And get the QB next year

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

You could say the same thing for Darnold, Rosen, Jackson & Allen.  None of those teams had great years either & to a certain extent all those teams underachieved based on preseason projections. 

I don’t disagree at all. That’s the crazy part. Although, only Darnold has a good team around him of that group. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Jackson.  Has been the best player in college football the last 2 years.  

Tebow was the best player in College football for a while. Wanna dig him up too?

[TigerJ]

I don't know enough to choose.  I think both have things they need to learn to be an effective NFL QB, but I think both have the capacity to learn.  They are very different though.  I imagine Brian Daboll will have considerable input if the decision comes down to those two players when Buffalo is on the clock.  In an article on the Bills website, Phil Savage, color commentator for Alabama football, is quoted as saying he thinks Daboll would gravitate toward a pure passer versus a multi-threat QB, so we'll see.

Edited January 18, 2018 by TigerJ

[QuoteTheRaven83]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Jackson.  Has been the best player in college football the last 2 years.  

 

Doesn't mean anything at the next level. Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, all had better college careers than Brady, Roethlisberger, and Drew Brees so what does that mean?

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This exercise assumes that the Bills will not trade up and will not have signed Cousins. They will have signed a placeholder guy in this scenario Bradford/Bridgewater/Tyrod/McCown. 

 

We have discussed a lot, the guy(s) that we want. Let’s say that the Bills stay put and the likely scenario or Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield and Allen are off the board. What should the Bills do at 21/22? Should they take Rudolph or Jackson or not draft a QB in the 1st? 

 

This is feels like a relatively realistic scenario. Please don’t provide ridiculous suggestions like “sign Garoppolo or Brees.” Let’s try to be realistic. 

 

Just wanting to interject that it would actually be a relatively rare scenario to have 4 QB drafted in the 1st round before round 21. 

 

It has happened 2x in the last 2 decades, and the results each time discouraged the following years QB Draft Inflation

 

2011: Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder all gone by pick 12

1999: Couch, McNabb, Akili Smith, Culpepper and Cade McNown all gone by pick 12

 

In those years, it's not as though there were a gem later on, either - unless you count Kaepernick

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, QuoteTheRaven83 said:

 

Doesn't mean anything at the next level. Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, all had better college careers than Brady, Roethlisberger, and Drew Brees so what does that mean?

 

 

 

Not to mention Barkley had a bigger impact this year.

[QuoteTheRaven83]

If it's between those 2, I'll pass. 

[SoTier]

I would pass on Rudolph and Jackson in the first.  I wouldn't be opposed to taking either in the 2nd or 3rd -- or some other QB -- but I don't think that the Bills should use a first round pick on the fourth/fifth/sixth best QB prospect in any draft.  No QB draft has been that deep since 1983 when underclassmen weren't eligible for the draft until their college classes had graduated.  Even then, while three great QBs and one pretty good one (Elway, Kelly, Marino, and O'Brien) came out of that draft, it was an anomaly because no other draft has yielded the quantity and quality of first round picks, although 2004 came close.  Most drafts have only 2 or 3 first round prospects, and generally yield only 1 top QB no matter the number of QBs that go in the first round. With the success rate for QBs drafted in the bottom of the first round being < 50%, I don't see the point in using a first round pick on a guy more likely to bust than succeed (the success rate for QBs taken #1 overall is around 80%). 

 

One trend that seems to be developing in the last 5-6 years is that of the occasional great/good/decent QBs coming out of later rounds: Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, Case Keenum, Dak Prescott, Jimmy Garoppolo, etc.  Prior to the 2011 draft, the only 3 notable QBs to come out of the draft after Round 1 in the previous 2 decades were Favre (1991), Brady (2000), and Brees (2001).   Drafting a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round, especially if he's got everything anybody could want in a prospect except optimum size, might be a smarter move than taking a prospect late in the first round.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

What I know about college football could be written on a dime and lost, but I don't want to see the Bills draft any guy whose completion percentage isn't >60% and trending upward through his college years. 

 

Can anyone educate me about a QB with a completion percentage <60% all 4 years in college who became a successful NFL QB?

 

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Voted Rudolph. Not enamored with him, but he's got above 60% completion over the past 3 years, with it rising each year. His TD:INT ratio got better as he progressed. He's got the size. Fits the pocket passer mold OBD has stated they want. Plus, if we only got a bridge QB, I at least want some prospect back there learning who isn't Peterman, so I cannot pass although I do not love either Rudolph or Jackson. 

[KDIGGZ]

it's a huge bummer that Rudolph won't be participating in the Senior Bowl.  the scouts really needed to see his footwork, if he could take a snap under center, what he could do in a normal offense where you have to work in the pocket and make multiple reads.  also needed to see his arm strength.  he is accurate on the deep throws but i haven't seen too many NFL type throws where he plants it and let's it rip on a 15 yard out to move the chains.  they said his foot isn't healthy enough yet to compete but that seems like a calculated move by his agent to buy him more time to get with a QB guru and get ready for the combine and pro day, both of which are a much more controlled environment than a whole week of coaches poking and prodding you at their will.  if he went to the senior bowl and looked sloppy it would hurt his draft stock.  right now he is seen as a late 1st rounder based solely on his size and success in a stat boosting college offense.

[xRUSHx]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

Insightful.  At least you didn't say "He's just like Tyrod".

A QB that runs over throwing why would he make that comparison..lol

[KDIGGZ]

 

Jackson is lucky he is not a senior.  he doesn't have to fake any injuries.  they will be wise to script a great pro day for him where he can wow them with roll outs and arm strength.  but what the scouts needed to see was his work in the pocket and accuracy into tight windows.  a lot of his plays are "homerun" type plays that don't exist at the NFL level.  he has toothpick legs, he's not going to be running as much or with as much success and guys aren't going to break as wide open as they do in college.  i think teams are leary of drafting dual threat QB's high now after RG3 flamed out.  it's really all about arm talent at the NFL level.  the scrambling ability is a nice to have but good footwork in the pocket can be just as effective because it's all about buying time and if there is an opening to run even Tom Brady is able to find those yards when available.

[xRUSHx]

9 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

it's a huge bummer that Rudolph won't be participating in the Senior Bowl.  the scouts really needed to see his footwork, if he could take a snap under center, what he could do in a normal offense where you have to work in the pocket and make multiple reads.  also needed to see his arm strength.  he is accurate on the deep throws but i haven't seen too many NFL type throws where he plants it and let's it rip on a 15 yard out to move the chains.  they said his foot isn't healthy enough yet to compete but that seems like a calculated move by his agent to buy him more time to get with a QB guru and get ready for the combine and pro day, both of which are a much more controlled environment than a whole week of coaches poking and prodding you at their will.  if he went to the senior bowl and looked sloppy it would hurt his draft stock.  right now he is seen as a late 1st rounder based solely on his size and success in a stat boosting college offense.

Teams are already wanting Rudolph without it IMO. From what I have seen, Denver, Pitt, Buffalo and few others looking extra at him. I think he will go mid round before we pick at the latest because if he lasts to 15 or so someone will move up before us to grab him IMO.

Edited January 18, 2018 by xRUSHx

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, ProcessTheTrust said:

I'm just curious, does everyone who knows for sure that Jackson won't be good  - were you the same people who knew Watson wouldn't be good - or better yet, STILL think he's not that good? I get that the mechanics of a protypical QB are important, but sometimes, when an athlete is a freak and has "IT", the seemingly big issues aren't as big. Us reaching for EJ has scarred us for life because our GM/scouts didn't recognize he didn't have the "IT" factor to cover his flaws. I'm not saying Jackson will be good for sure. I'm just not convinced the reasons he will suck are going to hold up. It's not that simple.

 

I'm not a college football maven, but didn't DeShaun Watson have unreal accuracy stats in college?

[Jay_Fixit]

1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Jackson.  Has been the best player in college football the last 2 years.  

 

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't follow college football closely but Sal C was talking about him the other day and his concern is he's a below 60% completion percentage in a Bobby Petrino offense.

I don't think Jackson is being considered by the Bills.  Every time Beane talks about what they're looking for in a QB, he just sounds like he wants that traditional pocket passer.  Not that Jackson can't do it but that's not the type of QB he is.

Sal was probably reading my posts about Jackson.

 

I wouldn’t draft Jackson whatsoever. 

[KDIGGZ]

Just now, xRUSHx said:

Teams are already wanting him without it IMO. From what I have seen, Denver, Pitt, Buffalo and few others looking extra at him. I think he will go mid round before we pick at the latest because if he lasts to 15 or so someone will move up before us to grab him IMO.

right, that's why i think it was a calculated move to not have him play.  he's going to be a high pick without it and a poor showing would only hurt his stock.