Bills clueless about Tyrod Taylor article

[xxxxxxxx]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Is it just me, or does that article not make...sense? Like terribly written and contradictory all the time?

 

Shady not running much out of shotgun? Well, that would be a problem except his YPC under center is better this year...so...fire Dennison? Article is rife with these.

 

Also rambles through racial undertones of benching Taylor. 3/10 would not read again.

Its nuanced, not contradictory. Its the  contradictory assessments of Taylor's play that Dom is taking issue with.

Consider the following quote from Andy Benoit, which is a common critique of Taylor's play echoed by folk on this board and members of the Buffalo media.

According to Benoit,

Stats can never measure throws that are open but not attempted. Tyrod has too many of those for an offense to be consistent.

 

This statement makes no sense because its impossible to have too many of something that can't be counted. And  it is rarely, if ever made about white quarterbacks with similar game tape. His point is that alot of stupid things get said about quarterbacks based on what they look like on the field, as opposed to the results that they get on the field. Sean's talk about how gutsy and resilient Peterman is falls into a similar category, in that it makes no sense. He's didn't praise Tyrod for being gutsy (or resilient), as far as I can tell, for coming off the bench and running for a TD (which is, like, the definition of being resilient, if resiliency is understood as an ability to withstand or recover from difficult conditions).

 

Referring to Petterman as being resiliant without extending the same compliment to Taylor is ridiculous in the eyes of many, as there is evidence to support usage of that term with regard to Taylor's play, and none to support it in regard to Petterman's play ( or did you not see him completely melt down).

Edited November 21, 2017 by MURPHD6

[YesPlayoffs]

25 minutes ago, Heitz said:

many of us want that guy FIRST before we start to add a supporting cast.  Obviously you need a solid line (and we have lots of picks and dollars to spend in FA), but more than anything we need a QB! 

 

Here's the problem with that...if we go get a great QB prospect, he's going to have to play in this garbage offense with no protection when he gets here.  It's a lot harder to develop potential when you've got nothing to work with.  Fix the other issues first to give a young guy a stable environment.  That's the only way this is going to work.

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

Its nuanced, not contradictory. Its the  contradictory assessments of Taylor's play that Dom is taking issue with.

Consider the following quote from Andy Benoit, which is a common critique of Taylor's play echoed by folk on this board and members of the Buffalo media.

According to Benoit,

Stats can never measure throws that are open but not attempted. Tyrod has too many of those for an offense to be consistent.

 

This statement makes no sense because its impossible to have too many of something that can't be counted. And  it is rarely, if ever made about white quarterbacks with similar game tape. His point is that alot of stupid things get said about quarterbacks based on what they look like on the field, as opposed to the results that they get on the field. Sean's talk about how gutsy and resilient Peterman is falls into a similar category, in that it makes no sense. He's didn't praise Tyrod for being gutsy (or resilient), as far as I can tell, for coming off the bench and running for a TD (which is, like, the definition of being resilient, if resiliency is understood as an ability to withstand or recover from difficult conditions).

 

Referring to Petterman as being resiliant without extending the same compliment to Taylor is ridiculous in the eyes of many, as there is evidence to support usage of that term with regard to Taylor's play, and none to support it in regard to Petterman's play ( or did you not see him completely melt down).

I won't do the white/black quarterback thing because I'm not interested. If your point is that it's unfair of McD to use complimentary language toward one QB without extending the same courtesy toward the other, I guess...I don't read much into what coaches say to the press myself. 

 

And if your point is that Peterman played terribly, you get no argument from me at all. But if it's contradictions you're really concerned with, I'd start with why a rookie should get written off after a bad 30 mins while a 7 year vet is somehow afforded the 'still developing' label and just needs a system that's adapted to his particular needs, as if that couldn't be said for every quarterback in the league.

[JM2009]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I won't do the white/black quarterback thing because I'm not interested. If your point is that it's unfair of McD to use complimentary language toward one QB without extending the same courtesy toward the other, I guess...I don't read much into what coaches say to the press myself. 

 

And if your point is that Peterman played terribly, you get no argument from me at all. But if it's contradictions you're really concerned with, I'd start with why a rookie should get written off after a bad 30 mins while a 7 year vet is somehow afforded the 'still developing' label and just needs a system that's adapted to his particular needs, as if that couldn't be said for every quarterback in the league.

My goodness, TT is 20-18 and comparing him to Peterman is ridiculous. This will never end. And TT has unique talents that most QBs do not have. You should know that, I hope.

[Billsfan1972]

39 minutes ago, NoPlayoffs said:

 

That's because they see Brady and think, "That's all we need!  A Hall of Fame quarterback!" without any understanding that finding one is a crapshoot.  They also don't understand that Brady is successful because he has a brilliant head coach who builds schemes to suit his players' talents.

 

Even if we were fortunate enough to actually draft the next great quarterback, we still have McChuckleNuts on the sidelines.  He'd end up ruining the guy anyway with his moronic coaching.

And the next Brady is only available after the 4th round!!!!!!

10 minutes ago, JM2009 said:

My goodness, TT is 20-18 and comparing him to Peterman is ridiculous. This will never end. And TT has unique talents that most QBs do not have. You should know that, I hope.

Because he's not ready, was a 5th round pick and needs a lot more coaching.  Fifth round rookies do not start for NFL teams in a playoff position or when the starter is healthy........

 

Never ever happened until the Bills genius coach did it!!!!!!

 

And you wonder why the national media was laughing before the 5 ints!!!!!!

[JM2009]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And the next Brady is only available after the 4th round!!!!!!

Because he's not ready, was a 5th round pick and needs a lot more coaching.  Fifth round rookies do not start for NFL teams in a playoff position or when the starter is healthy........

 

Never ever happened until the Bills genius coach did it!!!!!!

 

And you wonder why the national media was laughing before the 5 ints!!!!!!

Yep. If this is what McDermott is all about, he sure isn't the answer here.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

It makes sense to me. What he's saying is that because of how college offenses are run now, o-lineman and qbs come in woefully unprepared to operate in a pro-style offense. Smart coaches realize this and gameplan accordingly. The "traditional deficiencies" are substandard o-line play and weak quarterbacking beneath the elite tier, which is a product of all the spread offenses (which are very, very simple and succeed because of terrible secondary play at the college level).  

Yup. Very good article. 

[xxxxxxxx]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I won't do the white/black quarterback thing because I'm not interested. If your point is that it's unfair of McD to use complimentary language toward one QB without extending the same courtesy toward the other, I guess...I don't read much into what coaches say to the press myself. 

 

And if your point is that Peterman played terribly, you get no argument from me at all. But if it's contradictions you're really concerned with, I'd start with why a rookie should get written off after a bad 30 mins while a 7 year vet is somehow afforded the 'still developing' label and just needs a system that's adapted to his particular needs, as if that couldn't be said for every quarterback in the league.

I never said that Peterman should be written off, nor did Dom. And the point is not that Taylor deserves more time to develop: its that he has clearly developed into an average QB and thus deserves the respect from the coaching staff that the rest of the average QB's in the NFL get, which are plays drawn up to accentuate his strengths. The entire team deserves to be put into the best possible position to succeed, for that matter, including Peterman. Dude wasn't announced as the starter until Tuesday, so he didn't even have a full week to prepare for hist 1st NFL start. And the idea that a rookie should be developed when an average starter is already on the roster and the team is in playoff contention is what rubs most people the wrong way about this whole deal.

[Heitz]

3 hours ago, NoPlayoffs said:

 

Here's the problem with that...if we go get a great QB prospect, he's going to have to play in this garbage offense with no protection when he gets here.  It's a lot harder to develop potential when you've got nothing to work with.  Fix the other issues first to give a young guy a stable environment.  That's the only way this is going to work.

 

I hear what you're saying, though it could also go the opposite way - we draft and use FA to put together a killer O line, great WRs, now we take a swing at a QB and he sucks.   I'm just at the point where I'd rather go all-in to get the ONE guy right that can make the others look good, than the 10 right that aren't going to help that one guy (as much, IMO).

 

Either way, we need a lot of pieces!

[Wayne Arnold]

5 hours ago, Comebackkid said:

https://deadspin.com/the-bills-have-been-clueless-about-tyrod-taylor-1820609446

 

Decent article from deadspin.   Talks about McDermott being the one almost anal about playing safe, avoiding turnovers.

  Not playing to taylors strength,   Shady not running out of shotgun much this year compared to last.  

 

 

If McDermott was "the one almost anal about playing safe, avoiding turnovers" then wouldn't he love Taylor? And isn't playing safe playing to Taylor's strength?

 

Seems very contradictory to me.

3 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

Its nuanced, not contradictory. Its the  contradictory assessments of Taylor's play that Dom is taking issue with.

Consider the following quote from Andy Benoit, which is a common critique of Taylor's play echoed by folk on this board and members of the Buffalo media.

According to Benoit,

Stats can never measure throws that are open but not attempted. Tyrod has too many of those for an offense to be consistent.

 

This statement makes no sense because its impossible to have too many of something that can't be counted. And  it is rarely, if ever made about white quarterbacks with similar game tape. His point is that alot of stupid things get said about quarterbacks based on what they look like on the field, as opposed to the results that they get on the field. Sean's talk about how gutsy and resilient Peterman is falls into a similar category, in that it makes no sense. He's didn't praise Tyrod for being gutsy (or resilient), as far as I can tell, for coming off the bench and running for a TD (which is, like, the definition of being resilient, if resiliency is understood as an ability to withstand or recover from difficult conditions).

 

Referring to Petterman as being resiliant without extending the same compliment to Taylor is ridiculous in the eyes of many, as there is evidence to support usage of that term with regard to Taylor's play, and none to support it in regard to Petterman's play ( or did you not see him completely melt down).

 

Andy Benoit is definitely a racist.

 

We should spread the word.

[LA Grant]

Yep. Deadspin nailed it. So does this post here.

 

4 hours ago, grb said:

Remember : Taylor's stats in the 15 games with both Watkins and Woods playing?

63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs

 

That was with good, not elite talent. The offensive line played better than now, but still had problems with pass protection. Obviously there was an excellent running attack, as opposed to this year's off and on thing. But just think how many Taylor Memes don't stand up looking at those numbers :

• Needs an elite supporting cast?  Nope
• Checkdown Charlie?  Nope.
• Won't throw to receivers?  He did when he had NFL quality targets.
• Afraid to throw downfield? Are people's memories really that short?
• Not accurate / can't process at game speed / not a starting QB? The numbers suggest otherwise.

With only a little luck, Taylor will find himself on a team a little more talented and a lot less dysfunctional.

Don't be surprised if he then performs as per the numbers above.

 

 

[The Jokeman]

52 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

I never said that Peterman should be written off, nor did Dom. And the point is not that Taylor deserves more time to develop: its that he has clearly developed into an average QB and thus deserves the respect from the coaching staff that the rest of the average QB's in the NFL get, which are plays drawn up to accentuate his strengths. The entire team deserves to be put into the best possible position to succeed, for that matter, including Peterman. Dude wasn't announced as the starter until Tuesday, so he didn't even have a full week to prepare for hist 1st NFL start. And the idea that a rookie should be developed when an average starter is already on the roster and the team is in playoff contention is what rubs most people the wrong way about this whole deal.

Yet one could argue when we did play an offense to Tyrod's strength we weren't winning anymore than we were now so that's why we changed the offense?  

[GoBills808]

48 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

I never said that Peterman should be written off, nor did Dom. And the point is not that Taylor deserves more time to develop: its that he has clearly developed into an average QB and thus deserves the respect from the coaching staff that the rest of the average QB's in the NFL get, which are plays drawn up to accentuate his strengths. The entire team deserves to be put into the best possible position to succeed, for that matter, including Peterman. Dude wasn't announced as the starter until Tuesday, so he didn't even have a full week to prepare for hist 1st NFL start. And the idea that a rookie should be developed when an average starter is already on the roster and the team is in playoff contention is what rubs most people the wrong way about this whole deal.

I think you need to define 'average'...the whole debate around Taylor is whether he in fact is or isn't a viable (I guess I'll use that as the 'average' threshold) option at quarterback and warrants all the lengths a team will go to accommodate their QB that entails. The pro-Taylor crowd will point to his passer rating and DYAR (maybe not this year), and anti-Taylor crowd will complain about his yardage and usage stats. Rex Ryan thought he was, Sean McDermott apparently doesn't.

 

So...as far as designing and implementing plays drawn up to accentuate his strengths goes, yes. Obviously you do that for your QB. I think every team tries to build their offense around their QB's strengths. The other side of the coin is whether that level of commitment to an 'average' QB is worth suffering the limitations Taylor's skillset (or lack thereof) places on an offense as a unit and a team as a whole. My take is his lack of vision and indecisiveness with the football and the resultant problems those deficiencies place upon a team when manifested in your starting QB will never be offset by what small potential benefit a system designed around Taylor might confer. In terms of fielding a consistent, competitive (talking championship quality) team.

 

I don't care about Peterman, at all, outside finding out exactly how bad he is until there's absolutely no doubt about whether we draft a QB in the first round in 2018. That's it. But I'm also not enthused about the idea of building a team around a quarterback who IMO suffers from such glaring deficiencies as Taylor.

[Comebackkid]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

If McDermott was "the one almost anal about playing safe, avoiding turnovers" then wouldn't he love Taylor? And isn't playing safe playing to Taylor's strength?

 

Seems very contradictory to me.

 

Andy Benoit is definitely a racist.

 

We should spread the word.

You would think,  but then there were sources saying Dennison was the one wanting the change.  

[JM2009]

Joel Jackson‏ @jjjacks17

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Joel Jackson Retweeted Cover 1

Tyrod’s mobility was doing a lot to disguise deficiencies on the offensive line. Yet, he’s being ripped about for running too often

[Bills757]

1 minute ago, JM2009 said:

Joel Jackson‏ @jjjacks17

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Joel Jackson Retweeted Cover 1

Tyrod’s mobility was doing a lot to disguise deficiencies on the offensive line. Yet, he’s being ripped about for running too often

 

 

Exactly on point

[JPP]

6 minutes ago, JM2009 said:

Joel Jackson‏ @jjjacks17

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Joel Jackson Retweeted Cover 1

Tyrod’s mobility was doing a lot to disguise deficiencies on the offensive line. Yet, he’s being ripped about for running too often

Yeah but some dummies on here just think with their tin foil hats on (got this one from 26) and think oh just change the QB and presto we will start winning again because football is only because of the better QB and everything else is just gravy....sheesh....tell that to drew brees his last few seasons.....took them long enough...they finally gave him a solid running game and an actual defence this season.....i think they may go all the way......

[JM2009]

6 minutes ago, JPP said:

Yeah but some dummies on here just think with their tin foil hats on (got this one from 26) and think oh just change the QB and presto we will start winning again because football is only because of the better QB and everything else is just gravy....sheesh....tell that to drew brees his last few seasons.....took them long enough...they finally gave him a solid running game and an actual defence this season.....i think they may go all the way......

Any one who thinks TT has not been the best choice since 2015, with the other options on this roster, is wrong. NO is very good.

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I've said it since last year.

 

Ill never understand the Tyrod hate. He's solid. He had one **** game against the Saints and the pitch forks were out. 

 

Keep him until you have something better.

Solid isn't getting it done, we've seen that ever since Kelly, Thurman, Andre and Bruce left. As at times Bledsoe, Losman, Edwards, Fitzpatrick have all been solid but where'd it get us? This team either needs to magically unearth a QB or bottom out so we can start getting elite talent instead of average or slightly better. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by The Jokeman

[JM2009]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I've said it since last year.

 

Ill never understand the Tyrod hate. He's solid. He had one **** game against the Saints and the pitch forks were out. 

 

Keep him until you have something better.

This is commonsense and correct.

Just now, The Jokeman said:

Solid isn't getting it done, we've seen that ever since Kelly, Thurman, Andre and Bruce left. As at times Bledsoe, Losman, Edwards, Fitzpatrick have all been solid but where'd it get us? This team either needs to magically unearth a QB or bottom out so we can start getting elite talent instead of average or slightly better. 

TT has been better overall than those QBs listed. 

[Comebackkid]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I've said it since last year.

 

Ill never understand the Tyrod hate. He's solid. He had one **** game against the Saints and the pitch forks were out. 

 

Keep him until you have something better.

Kind of my view point.  Don't want him for the future?  Fine but as long as he is your starter right now, put him in the best possible position to succeed.   Dont take away what his strength is and hang him out to dry because he didn't have the success you wanted handicapped by your box 

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, JM2009 said:

This is commonsense and correct.

TT has been better overall than those QBs listed. 

I disagree Fitzpatrick was a better passer than Tyrod ever will be, yet Tyrod is better at avoiding turnovers. To me Tyrod is Trent Edwards meets RJ with a touch of Flutie. 

[JM2009]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

I disagree Fitzpatrick was a better passer than Tyrod ever will be, yet Tyrod is better at avoiding turnovers. To me Tyrod is Trent Edwards meets RJ with a touch of Flutie. 

The Fitz was a turnover machine at the worst times, and his terrible W-L record shows that. Most QBs would get killed behind this line.

[JPP]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I disagree Fitzpatrick was a better passer than Tyrod ever will be, yet Tyrod is better at avoiding turnovers. To me Tyrod is Trent Edwards meets RJ with a touch of Flutie. 

OMG noodle arm....mr pickpatrick??  sorry not my argument i apologize but just had to comment......sorry just dont buy that one......

[KD in CA]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I've said it since last year.

 

Ill never understand the Tyrod hate. He's solid. He had one **** game against the Saints and the pitch forks were out. 

 

Keep him until you have something better.

 

I'll explain it to you.   

 

It's not 'Tyrod hate'.  It's that fans are sick and tired of a team that for 20 years has failed to have an intelligent plan for the QB position;  instead fluctuating between trying to get by on the cheap and when that fails and they are out of options, making desperate and stupid draft moves.

 

They wasted four years with Fitz, while eschewing guys like Wilson and Cousins, because of the same thinking we see on display about Taylor:  "if he just gets a little better" or "if we just had XYZ around him", or "we were so close last year" instead of admitting that those guys, while not terrible QBs, are never going to be better than just ok, which is not good enough in the NFL.

 

So just like they refused to draft a QB until Fitz had completely gone bust;  post-EJ they went back to the 'get by cheap' plan and ignored QB in the draft, except for a couple token late round long shots.  Three years later there is still no apparent future QB on the team and people are clinging to Taylor.

 

If you told me the Bills were going to draft a top-3 QB next year and keep Taylor until the rookie was ready, I guess I'd be ok with it.  But frankly, Taylor doesn't seem like the 'mentor a young QB' kind of guy.  He's not a student of the game, he relies on instinct rather than a deep understanding of NFL defenses and how to beat them.  And you'd have the same sub-set of the fan base screaming that Taylor should be the guy and a QB controversy is a bad idea.

[YesPlayoffs]

2 hours ago, KD in CA said:

But frankly, Taylor doesn't seem like the 'mentor a young QB' kind of guy.  He's not a student of the game, he relies on instinct rather than a deep understanding of NFL defenses and how to beat them.

 

What makes you think that?

 

As if it isn't obvious.

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Is it just me, or does that article not make...sense? Like terribly written and contradictory all the time?

 

Shady not running much out of shotgun? Well, that would be a problem except his YPC under center is better this year...so...fire Dennison? Article is rife with these.

 

Also rambles through racial undertones of benching Taylor. 3/10 would not read again.

 

 

 

Yeah. There were some good points but also a number of misreadings of what's going on that seemed almost bizarre.

 

He claims that they're not behind Tyrod as shown by the fact that they're not changing their system in ways that would most help a guy with a style like his. And then further down he says that McDermott seems to be a system over personnel kind of guy. Exactly.

 

McDermott wants a guy who will play in his system. He gave Tyrod a chance to do that. He said from his first press conferences that a QB in his system must be able to throw successfully from the pocket. And now people are complaining that McDermott won't run tons of plays that go to Tyrod's strengths by putting him outside the pocket.

 

The problem isn't that they're not behind Tyrod. It's that as they've made clear, they're looking for a certain kind of QB, and Tyrod this year when given a chance to show he is that kind of a QB hasn't done so.

 

 

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I've said it since last year.

 

Ill never understand the Tyrod hate. He's solid. He had one **** game against the Saints and the pitch forks were out. 

 

Keep him until you have something better.

 

 

 

And I've said it just as long.

 

I'll never understand the Tyrod fanboy love. He's slightly below average at the pass game and this is what tends to happen to QBs who are slightly below average at the pass game. They get a season or two, maybe even three if they're very lucky to improve, and after that, the team is looking for someone else.

 

 He had one **** game against the Saints ... on top of an inconsistent and fairly unproductive season in the pass game. There are no pitchforks out. Those are binoculars and hoes (the garden implement) to start to till and sift the earth for someone better.

 

Find someone who will eventually fit the system and the process. I want the Bills valuing long-term development over short-term wins.

 

I wish Tyrod the absolute best of luck. But I don't expect him to have a long career as a starter. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, JM2009 said:

Joel Jackson‏ @jjjacks17

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Joel Jackson Retweeted Cover 1

Tyrod’s mobility was doing a lot to disguise deficiencies on the offensive line. Yet, he’s being ripped about for running too often

 

 

Sometimes that's true. Plenty of other times Tyrod's unwillingness to throw on time has created problems for the offensive line.

 

And he's not being ripped for running too often. He's being ripped for sometimes running when he doesn't have to, and for being part of the problem (yeah, the OL is certainly not without blame!!!!) in creating those situations when he has to take off by not getting rid of the ball.

[Ol Dirty B]

15 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Is it just me, or does that article not make...sense? Like terribly written and contradictory all the time?

 

Shady not running much out of shotgun? Well, that would be a problem except his YPC under center is better this year...so...fire Dennison? Article is rife with these.

 

Also rambles through racial undertones of benching Taylor. 3/10 would not read again.

 

Of course you wouldn't. It's critical of the Bills. 

13 hours ago, Heitz said:

 

 

TT isn't terrible, who knows what Nate is (I need more than one game to make an informed decision), but neither is a guy that makes you say THAT'S our Franchise QB!

 

eh... 5 Int's make me feel pretty confident saying Nate is terrible. I'm envious of your level of denial. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Ol Dirty B

[Billsfan1972]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Yeah. There were some good points but also a number of misreadings of what's going on that seemed almost bizarre.

 

He claims that they're not behind Tyrod as shown by the fact that they're not changing their system in ways that would most help a guy with a style like his. And then further down he says that McDermott seems to be a system over personnel kind of guy. Exactly.

 

McDermott wants a guy who will play in his system. He gave Tyrod a chance to do that. He said from his first press conferences that a QB in his system must be able to throw successfully from the pocket. And now people are complaining that McDermott won't run tons of plays that go to Tyrod's strengths by putting him outside the pocket.

 

The problem isn't that they're not behind Tyrod. It's that as they've made clear, they're looking for a certain kind of QB, and Tyrod this year when given a chance to show he is that kind of a QB hasn't done so.

 

 

 

 

 

And I've said it just as long.

 

I'll never understand the Tyrod fanboy love. He's slightly below average at the pass game and this is what tends to happen to QBs who are slightly below average at the pass game. They get a season or two, maybe even three if they're very lucky to improve, and after that, the team is looking for someone else.

 

 He had one **** game against the Saints ... on top of an inconsistent and fairly unproductive season in the pass game. There are no pitchforks out. Those are binoculars and hoes (the garden implement) to start to till and sift the earth for someone better.

 

Find someone who will eventually fit the system and the process. I want the Bills valuing long-term development over short-term wins.

 

I wish Tyrod the absolute best of luck. But I don't expect him to have a long career as a starter. 

Actually there is little love for Tyrod.  More people scratch their head that the coach would put in a system that doesn't use his strengths, trade away his best options, have a mickey mouse formation with no creativity and playcalling that is baffling to say the least.

 

Most of us have no idea how good Tyrod is because of the OC, trading away their best receiver, the schemes and that when we see the team line up at the LOS, there is little movement and usually the play is obvious for all to see.

 

He's handcuffed, and there was a glimmer in the second half vs. LAC (with the LAC starters still playing) that at least there was some fire in the Bills offense.

 

And McDermott is trying to fit a square peg (perfectly functional) into a round hole.  It is pretty simple you adapt to your skill players strengths, not vice versa.

 

The Fanboys as you call them was anyone clamoring to start a 5th round rookie and thinking he had any shot......  

 

The fact still people a dissecting every throw he made and defending him is preposterous......

Edited November 22, 2017 by Billsfan1972

[Rad Likes The Bills]

16 hours ago, grb said:

Remember : Taylor's stats in the 15 games with both Watkins and Woods playing?

63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 INTs

 

That was with good, not elite talent. The offensive line played better than now, but still had problems with pass protection. Obviously there was an excellent running attack, as opposed to this year's off and on thing. But just think how many Taylor Memes don't stand up looking at those numbers :

• Needs an elite supporting cast?  Nope
• Checkdown Charlie?  Nope.
• Won't throw to receivers?  He did when he had NFL quality targets.
• Afraid to throw downfield? Are people's memories really that short?
• Not accurate / can't process at game speed / not a starting QB? The numbers suggest otherwise.

With only a little luck, Taylor will find himself on a team a little more talented and a lot less dysfunctional.

Don't be surprised if he then performs as per the numbers above.

 

It's a shame Tyrod gets dogged so much around here. I know he is a gamer. And for all the bs he has gone through here and to still keep pushing and be a leader. He deserves so much more than  the way we have treated  him.

[Teddy KGB]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I've said it since last year.

 

Ill never understand the Tyrod hate. He's solid. He had one **** game against the Saints and the pitch forks were out. 

 

Keep him until you have something better.

 

Why doesn't everyone love the qb who averages 184 yards a game ? 

 

How is is it hard to understand ?      It's amazing he has so many devout fans who still act like he's a option.    

 

The Bills, Dolphins, and Jets are a joke, Pats fans just laugh at how good they have it.  

Edited November 22, 2017 by Air it out Fitzy

[Billsfan1972]

19 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

Why doesn't everyone love the qb who averages 184 yards a game ? 

 

How is is it hard to understand ?      It's amazing he has so many devout fans who still act like he's a option.    

 

The Bills, Dolphins, and Jets are a joke, Pats fans just laugh at how good they have it.  

And I too am tired of 184 yards passing, but how about search my threads when I lament the inability to even try to throw for 300 yards and see me get lambasted.

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[xxxxxxxx]

14 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

If McDermott was "the one almost anal about playing safe, avoiding turnovers" then wouldn't he love Taylor? And isn't playing safe playing to Taylor's strength?

 

Seems very contradictory to me.

 

Andy Benoit is definitely a racist.

 

We should spread the word.

I don't care to discuss this issue with you any more, or any other football issue for that matter.  Your comments aren't being made in good faith, and your trolling of a fellow fan demonstrates a major lack in social grace. You clearly don't understand that racism can exist systemically and discursively as opposed to being something that someone identifies as, and given that you have expressed no interest in reading up on the topic I have no interest in debating it with you.

Edited November 22, 2017 by MURPHD6

[SoTier]

13 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

I never said that Peterman should be written off, nor did Dom. And the point is not that Taylor deserves more time to develop: its that he has clearly developed into an average QB and thus deserves the respect from the coaching staff that the rest of the average QB's in the NFL get, which are plays drawn up to accentuate his strengths. The entire team deserves to be put into the best possible position to succeed, for that matter, including Peterman. Dude wasn't announced as the starter until Tuesday, so he didn't even have a full week to prepare for hist 1st NFL start. And the idea that a rookie should be developed when an average starter is already on the roster and the team is in playoff contention is what rubs most people the wrong way about this whole deal.

 

POINT. SET. MATCH.  You absolutely nailed it ...  as did the original article.  

 

As for Peterman, it seems to me that he was set up to fail, too.   In addition to the limited prep time he had, the game plan he was asked to execute simply wasn't what a sensible HC/OC would provide for a rookie making his first start.  Instead of a simplified plan emphasizing lots of running, max protections, and limited, safe passes to protect the rookie as much as they could, they had Peterman slinging it behind an OL that has been and is playing poorly ... against Joey Bosa and Company ... way too much.  Are they that stupid or did they have another agenda?

 

I am not a conspiracy theory believer by nature.  In fact, I tend to be just the opposite.  However, the Bills have made so many bizarre moves since they put the McDermott-Beane regime in place, that I'm convinced that winning football games -- now, in the immediate future, or ten years down the road -- is simply not on their agenda.  I don't know what their agenda is but obviously it's not winning. 

 

I have no doubt that the Bills -- FO and coaching staff -- have done their best to sabotage Taylor, and I think that throwing Peterman to the wolves in LA on Sunday was part and parcel of it.  They wanted him to throw downfield more than any first time starter should be asked to throw in order to "prove" that the Bills conservative offense in previous games was all Taylor's fault.  It blew up in their faces, and I'm glad of that ... but I'm sorry that Nate Peterman, Tyrod Taylor, and all the rest of the Bills players suffered such humiliation because of the asshats in charge.  I am also beyond angry that the Bills organization has shown such disdain for Bills fans and their loyalty over the years as to not even TRY to win games in a year when making the playoffs in the AFC with a 9-7 record is entirely possible ... and with the Bills even holding some tie-breakers.

 

And for you cretins who want to B word that the rest of the Bills players ought to have played better, understand that most of them simply can't.  They don't have the talent.  Most of the younger talented Bills players from the last couple of years -- "Whaley's mistakes" as you cretins call them -- are scattered around the league playing on playoff bound teams.  The Bills in their infinite wisdom gleaned from seventeen, soon to be eighteen, straight years of avoiding the playoffs, replaced them with scrubs and rookies.

 

It's not reprehensible for a football player to lack talent.  It's the way it is.  It is reprehensible, however, for a football team to not even try to win a game when they are seeded for a playoff slot.

 

 

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

I'll explain it to you.   

 

It's not 'Tyrod hate'.  It's that fans are sick and tired of a team that for 20 years has failed to have an intelligent plan for the QB position;  instead fluctuating between trying to get by on the cheap and when that fails and they are out of options, making desperate and stupid draft moves.

 

They wasted four years with Fitz, while eschewing guys like Wilson and Cousins, because of the same thinking we see on display about Taylor:  "if he just gets a little better" or "if we just had XYZ around him", or "we were so close last year" instead of admitting that those guys, while not terrible QBs, are never going to be better than just ok, which is not good enough in the NFL.

 

So just like they refused to draft a QB until Fitz had completely gone bust;  post-EJ they went back to the 'get by cheap' plan and ignored QB in the draft, except for a couple token late round long shots.  Three years later there is still no apparent future QB on the team and people are clinging to Taylor.

 

If you told me the Bills were going to draft a top-3 QB next year and keep Taylor until the rookie was ready, I guess I'd be ok with it.  But frankly, Taylor doesn't seem like the 'mentor a young QB' kind of guy.  He's not a student of the game, he relies on instinct rather than a deep understanding of NFL defenses and how to beat them.  And you'd have the same sub-set of the fan base screaming that Taylor should be the guy and a QB controversy is a bad idea.

 

So, why aren't you frustrated cretins taking out your frustrations on the culprits responsible for the 20 years of failure instead of blindly defending them as if they can do no wrong?        

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

With all of these "great" stats you need to ask -  Why the hell did Taylor FORGET Sammy completely for an entire half of a game?  

[JPP]

5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

With all of these "great" stats you need to ask -  Why the hell did Taylor FORGET Sammy completely for an entire half of a game?  

from what i recall they pulled a safety on him pretty much the entire rest of that half....he doubled covered.....not making excuses but it is this.....

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, JPP said:

from what i recall they pulled a safety on him pretty much the entire rest of that half....he doubled covered.....not making excuses but it is this.....

not making stuff up  but there is this....

 

You've never seen great QB's throw into double coverage?  

 

Beyond that, the entire passing game was nil and ineffective.   He forgets his best players all the time "protecting" the ball.  

 

 

When Sammy and Clay and O'Leary were on the field together

Edited November 22, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[JPP]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

not making stuff up  but there is this....

 

You've never seen great QB's throw into double coverage?  

 

Beyond that, the entire passing game was nil and ineffective.   He forgets his best players all the time "protecting" the ball.  

 

 

When Sammy and Clay and O'Leary are on the field together

tt is not one of the greats.....you shouldnt compare him to those qb's...most qb's in 2017 cannot even be considered close at all......tt is serviceable....an avg QB in the nfl by most standards (media-scouts etc)....i hear the unforgiving hate by some which makes me laugh cause its like the guy did something personal to their mothers or something...lol.......the only option you have is TT or Peterman.....last weekend made the decision painfully obvious......if this team has given up on an attempt to regain and go for a WC spot than the obvious choice is peterman...you have nothing to lose....if they still want to compete well than obvious you go with taylor......simple as that