Team again quit on McDermott

[jethro_tull]

trading dareus was the last contradiction to "win now" that the players could overlook.  

 

 

 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

3 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think the offense has lost faith in Dennison and his reluctance to deviate from the "his" blocking scheme no matter how ineffective it is.

 

Same old, same old.

 

The OLine was fine today. Not even on the Top 10 list of reasons why the Bills lost.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

How disgusted must Kelvin Benjamin be about being here? Leave Cam Newton and a team with a shot for a QB that doesn’t even realize receivers are on the field. I’m sure he’s going to buy in and work hard...The guy will probably get a fake injury and beg to not have his option picked up.

[vincec]

Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

How disgusted must Kelvin Benjamin be about being here? Leave Cam Newton and a team with a shot for a QB that doesn’t even realize receivers are on the field. I’m sure he’s going to buy in and work hard...The guy will probably get a fake injury and beg to not have his option picked up.

He's probably on the phone crying to his agent right now.

[klos63]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Probably to help mentor some younger players that they will bring next offseason.  His experience will help some young kid out I'm sure.

A very expensive mentor. I can't see how his experience helps another player.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Just now, vincec said:

He's probably on the phone crying to his agent right now.

Hopefully he’s on the phone with the HC telling him to put Peterman in

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

That's why we need to give the regime time to get players that fit the scheme in the building but we never do because we are too impatient

 

 

Do you think they were too impatient with Rex?

 

Not having players for his scheme was Rex's excuse.

 

I think he was going to fail anyway but if it's just about being patient then they should have been patient with him.

 

Adapting systems to the talent on hand is the prudent path.........it's not like these schemes McD and Dennison run are game changers.........they are pretty simple.......which is why the team was able to adapt to them pretty quickly.  

 

But once teams get tapes on the personnel in these new schemes........you need the talent to keep them working and the Bills have been careless with the talent in-house and there appears to be a lot of frustration and business decisions going on out there.........which is worst-case scenario for someone trying to change the quitting culture.

[NoSaint]

47 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

It's a rebuilding project that will take a few years.  We have an old roster and these coaches inherited most of it...I just don't understand the constant turnover mindset and how it would be good for the franchise to not allow this regime to have a couple of years to build something.  They haven't had a chance to get their guys on the roster?  It's still been less than a year...

There’s absolutely no reason this needed to be a multi year rebuild. Fans went hook line and sinker on a narrative about how bad the cap was.... we now also believe that every young talent was a cancer... it’s ridiculous. 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

The defense isn't playing in a vacuum. They see the inept offense and the quarterback who checks down on 3rd and 15 to the 300 pound running back surrounded by defenders 10 yards shy of the first down marker.

 

The defense had buried itself before they even had time to see what Tyrod was doing.

 

This was a lot like that flexed game against the Patriots in their 18-1 season where they scored 8 straight TD's to start the game.

 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

There’s absolutely no reason this needed to be a multi year rebuild. Fans went hook line and sinker on a narrative about how bad the cap was.... we now also believe that every young talent was a cancer... it’s ridiculous. 

 

"Signability" NoSaint

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

"Signability" NoSaint

 

It’ll sound snarky but a genuine point here— there are very few fans on this board that have closely watched a successful team week in and week out, year in and year out, in the salary cap era. 

 

Most are so used to hearing they can’t afford talented players, when the truth is that this is a league where you need a few explosive stars to even start to compete consistently. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

There’s absolutely no reason this needed to be a multi year rebuild. Fans went hook line and sinker on a narrative about how bad the cap was.... we now also believe that every young talent was a cancer... it’s ridiculous. 

 

 

This is where the parallels to Jauron continue.

 

Despite not technically drafting awfully bad Jauron decimated the roster with bad decisions on players acquired by the previous regime..........whom he used most of his draft picks to replace......causing a lack of progress.

 

 And then when Buddy Nix came in he basically had the excuse that the roster was barren.

 

Nix rebuilt the lines......Whaley added some playmakers on offense..........and rather than running with what he had and giving himself a fighting chance.......McD is misguidedly deconstructing it all like he has an unlimited amount of time to rebuild.

 

And he doesn't.

 

Terry Pegula has proven that he will give his regimes the freedom to do what they want......likely in deference to his cluelessness wrt pro sports......... but he has proven that he will hold them accountable.    I don't get any sense that they are going to turn into the Ford or Brown families and tolerate failure or mediocrity for much more than a couple seasons at a time.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

 

It’ll sound snarky but a genuine point here— there are very few fans on this board that have closely watched a successful team week in and week out, year in and year out, in the salary cap era. 

 

Most are so used to hearing they can’t afford talented players, when the truth is that this is a league where you need a few explosive stars to even start to compete consistently. 

Great point.  Almost all playoff caliber NFC and AFC teams have highly paid and highly productive/talented players on both sides of the ball.  Our most productive star on defense is probably Tre White or Hyde.  We don't even have a star pass rusher.  

[Wayne Arnold]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The defense had buried itself before they even had time to see what Tyrod was doing.

 

 

Oh please. It was 7-3 in the second quarter when Tyrod did his first Edwards impression by checking down to Tubby Tolbert on 3rd and long.

[Perry Turtle]

23 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

There’s absolutely no reason this needed to be a multi year rebuild. Fans went hook line and sinker on a narrative about how bad the cap was.... we now also believe that every young talent was a cancer... it’s ridiculous. 

 

The Bills could have re-signed Woods, picked up Watkins option, and drafted Watson.  Sure, they might have had to overpay Woods, and Watkins option would have stressed the salary cap, and who knows if Watson would have suffered the same injury with the Bills, but what you would rather have right now:  Deshaun Watson throwing to Watkins and Woods with Shady running against light fronts, or the "process?"

 

The fact that the Bills are again run by a front office who lacks the foresight to identify talent at key positions is frustrating.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Perry Turtle

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Oh please. It was 7-3 in the second quarter when Tyrod did his first Edwards impression by checking down to Tubby Tolbert on 3rd and long.

Taylor was horrible today. No doubt about that.

[vincec]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

if a player is traded the narrative from fans is "Another Whaley mistake". 

 

Many of those Whaley "mistakes" are starting for other teams right now.

 

But hey, at least they got a couple of subway tokens for them.

Edited November 13, 2017 by vincec

[The Now Moment]

36 minutes ago, klos63 said:

A very expensive mentor. I can't see how his experience helps another player.

I'm sure they will get out of his contract when he is replaced

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

That's why the Saints ran it ALL DAY down our throats? Because Taylor was sucking? 

 

Im missing the logic.

He's saying it's demoralizing for a defense when the offense looks lifeless. 

 

How could anyone disagree with that?  Has anyone watched Denver?

[T-Bomb]

Pegula's teams really quit on their coaches quickly when the going gets tough...

[dave mcbride]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

That's why the Saints ran it ALL DAY down our throats? Because Taylor was sucking? 

 

Im missing the logic.

I think he was saying no excuses for taylor at least for today, and he's right.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said:

The Bills could have re-signed Woods, picked up Watkins option, and drafted Watson.  Sure, they might have had to overpay Woods, and Watkins option would have stressed the salary cap, and who knows if Watson would have suffered the same injury with the Bills, but what you would rather have right now:  Deshaun Watson throwing to Watkins and Woods with Shady running against light fronts, or the "process?"

 

The fact that the Bills are again run by a front office who lacks the foresight to identify talent at key positions is frustrating.

 

Yep.

 

I think the next step in "the process" for the Pegula's will be finally hiring the czar that was suggested to them when they original bought the team...... to at least serve as an editor against critically ill conceived decisions.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I know what he's saying.

 

Im saying it's bull ****.... did you watch the Bills in 2014?

That defense was MUCH more talented.  And I'm sure it was demoralizing for them too.

[The Now Moment]

36 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Do you think they were too impatient with Rex?

 

Not having players for his scheme was Rex's excuse.

 

I think he was going to fail anyway but if it's just about being patient then they should have been patient with him.

 

Adapting systems to the talent on hand is the prudent path.........it's not like these schemes McD and Dennison run are game changers.........they are pretty simple.......which is why the team was able to adapt to them pretty quickly.  

 

But once teams get tapes on the personnel in these new schemes........you need the talent to keep them working and the Bills have been careless with the talent in-house and there appears to be a lot of frustration and business decisions going on out there.........which is worst-case scenario for someone trying to change the quitting culture.

I think Rex was going to fail anyway because he was a lazy coach.  McDermott doesn't seem like that to me.  If they think these are the guys...then patience.  McDermott's high character players will fit better in a suspension happy league anyway.  

33 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

There’s absolutely no reason this needed to be a multi year rebuild. Fans went hook line and sinker on a narrative about how bad the cap was.... we now also believe that every young talent was a cancer... it’s ridiculous. 

 

In a suspension happy league, I think getting guys like Dareus who is one more away from a full season or something like that.  That's a bad influence on the rest of the team.  The culture needed to be changed...it takes a lot of house cleaning to do that.  Those that didn't buy into the system would just be more drama in the locker room.  They are taking the team a certain direction and it's opposite of what we've been doing so...yeah it will likely take some time

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

That defense was MUCH more talented.  And I'm sure it was demoralizing for them too.

 

 

That's where mental toughness kicks in if your team has it.

 

This team does not.

 

I don't think it's Taylor but I do agree that the handling of the offensive side of the ball has to be demoralizing for the D..........the tipping point last week was Matthews fumbled drive then subsequently starting off the second half like they were protecting a 10 point lead instead of losing by running up the middle for no gains on first and second down.

 

This D was QUICK to quit against the Jets and never got the sense they were intent on remaining focused at all today.

[MAJBobby]

Process = Bring in Former Panthers 

[Green Lightning]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That's why the Saints ran it ALL DAY down our throats? Because Taylor was sucking? 

 

Im missing the logic.

No, but that doesn't mean TT didn'tsuck. He did. He was pathetic. 

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yep.

 

I think the next step in "the process" for the Pegula's will be finally hiring the czar that was suggested to them when they original bought the team...... to at least serve as an editor against critically ill conceived decisions.

I know just the guy.....

 

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That's where mental toughness kicks in if your team has it.

 

This team does not.

 

I don't think it's Taylor but I do agree that the handling of the offensive side of the ball has to be demoralizing for the D..........the tipping point last week was Matthews fumbled drive then subsequently starting off the second half like they were protecting a 10 point lead instead of losing by running up the middle for no gains on first and second down.

 

This D was QUICK to quit against the Jets and never got the sense they were intent on remaining focused at all today.

Which is a reflection on the coach, IMO.  ESPECIALLY when he dedicated the offseason to getting HIS guys who were supposed to be locker room guys.

 

It may not be just Taylor, but when your QB is playing like crap, your offense is usually following suit.  Bad combo for a fragile, mediocre D.

[Wayne Arnold]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That's why the Saints ran it ALL DAY down our throats? Because Taylor was sucking? 

 

Im missing the logic.

 

I'm sure it didn't help. You can only shut down that offense for so long before you break. The defense can't score points.

[LA Grant]

12 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Oh please. It was 7-3 in the second quarter when Tyrod did his first Edwards impression by checking down to Tubby Tolbert on 3rd and long.

 

This was irritating to me, but I was more upset with the play design -- it shouldn't even be possible for Tyrod to throw to Tolbert in that position on that play. 

 

Just now, T-Bomb said:

Pegula's teams really quit on their coaches quickly when the going gets tough...

 

Ha, damn... while that's painfully true, I don't think the players have quit on McDermott.

 

I do think they quit on themselves, I think they are tired and demoralized because they are seeing the truth -- they were on fumes before, winning on smoke and mirrors, buying into their specialness, and now they're seeing how overmatched they are physically. 

 

The team just does not have enough young talent on the roster. Especially on defense.

 

Tre'Davious White. That's it. 

 

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

I think Rex was going to fail anyway because he was a lazy coach.  McDermott doesn't seem like that to me.  If they think these are the guys...then patience.  McDermott's high character players will fit better in a suspension happy league anyway.  

 

McDermott and Beane have a vision and they are executing it and they've seen success, more than they anticipated -- Beane and McDermott have both said that. I think this team this year would be much better if it still had Watkins and Dareus, regardless of how underperforming they are, particularly when you could have still had KB and EJ Gaines and even Jordan Matthews if you really wanted. But they wouldn't be as good as they want to be next year without them gone this year, so. It's a value judgment. But they have a clear vision and that's an improvement from the last X amount of years. 

 

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I don't think it's Taylor but I do agree that the handling of the offensive side of the ball has to be demoralizing for the D..........the tipping point last week was Matthews fumbled drive then subsequently starting off the second half like they were protecting a 10 point lead instead of losing by running up the middle for no gains on first and second down.

 

This D was QUICK to quit against the Jets and never got the sense they were intent on remaining focused at all today.

 

I think you're probably right. In another thread I was wondering why the tackling has fallen into the trash when it seemed so solid early on, and I think you hit on the answer. They're tired, and tired of it. Tired of creating turnovers that turn into 3-and-outs. It's frustrating just to watch! I can only imagine how frustrating it is to play, as you're exhausted and getting pummeled because you're physically overmatched. 

[The Now Moment]

1 minute ago, LA Grant said:

McDermott and Beane have a vision and they are executing it and they've seen success, more than they anticipated -- Beane and McDermott have both said that. I think this team this year would be much better if it still had Watkins and Dareus, regardless of how underperforming they are, particularly when you could have still had KB and EJ Gaines and even Jordan Matthews if you really wanted. But they wouldn't be as good as they want to be next year without them gone this year, so. It's a value judgment. But they have a clear vision and that's an improvement from the last X amount of years. 

 

 

Those guys don't fit the future...that's what the personnel moves have been for...to repave the roster.  Guys like Matthew and Gaines were for this year.  It's all about bringing in their type of players.  Hope they get a chance to see if they can reach their goals.

[Green Lightning]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Not happening.

They didn't quit, they just aren't physically able to, the lack of talent has caught up to us.

They quit.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, LA Grant said:

 

I think you're probably right. In another thread I was wondering why the tackling has fallen into the trash when it seemed so solid early on, and I think you hit on the answer. They're tired, and tired of it. Tired of creating turnovers that turn into 3-and-outs. It's frustrating just to watch! I can only imagine how frustrating it is to play, as you're exhausted and getting pummeled because you're physically overmatched. 

 

They are mentally tired.

 

This is a common thread with Bills teams during the drought.

 

They reach a point in the season and for whatever reason they crack.

 

It isn't true physical exhaustion.......they just came off a 10 day layoff.......but it's a mental weakness........pressure........perhaps looking at the schedule and thinking they gotta' win this game or else........then laying a series of eggs.

 

Traditionally,  they start playing better football when they are all but eliminated from contention.

 

Not sure they can close out the meaningless games in December well THIS time because they lack the talent of those Marrone/Rex teams but I suspect they will find that they weren't as tired as maybe they thought they were.

 

Mental toughness........still lacking. 

[Green Lightning]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

They are mentally tired.

 

This is a common thread with Bills teams during the drought.

 

They reach a point in the season and for whatever reason they crack.

 

It isn't true physical exhaustion.......they just came off a 10 day layoff.......but it's a mental weakness........pressure........perhaps looking at the schedule and thinking they gotta' win this game or else........then laying a series of eggs.

 

Traditionally,  they start playing better football when they are all but eliminated from contention.

 

Not sure they can close out the meaningless games in December well THIS time because they lack the talent of those Marrone/Rex teams but I suspect they will find that they weren't as tired as maybe they thought they were.

 

Mental toughness........still lacking. 

 

This. Our trajectory is now 7-9. I expect some spectacular losses to NE to boot.

[vincec]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Those guys don't fit the future...that's what the personnel moves have been for...to repave the roster.  Guys like Matthew and Gaines were for this year.  It's all about bringing in their type of players.  Hope they get a chance to see if they can reach their goals.

It's a long shot that you can completely tear down and rebuild an NFL roster in this day and age and hang around to see the results. The best rebuilding jobs get the good young players to "buy in" instead of shipping them off so that the turnaround goes more quickly.

[LA Grant]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

Those guys don't fit the future...that's what the personnel moves have been for...to repave the roster.  Guys like Matthew and Gaines were for this year.  It's all about bringing in their type of players.  Hope they get a chance to see if they can reach their goals.

 

Exactly. Right. And for me, Gaines/Darby is a wash. Both played well, both had injuries. So that's a win. But I think a healthy Sammy Watkins for one year > injured Jordan Matthews for one year. Of course the season we swap them, Sammy stays healthy and Matthews gets hurt. Of course. They made the move for locker room reasons as much as anything, and while that's a success, Watkins would have been a difference maker this year, finally with a full year with Tyrod. Plus Benjamin. Even if we just say goodbye to Watkins afterward, I mean you don't get the second round draft pick, but this year it's not like your roster is better without elite talent, even underperforming and with issues. Your locker room is better but not your roster, not for this year. 

[Perry Turtle]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Those guys don't fit the future...that's what the personnel moves have been for...to repave the roster.  Guys like Matthew and Gaines were for this year.  It's all about bringing in their type of players.  Hope they get a chance to see if they can reach their goals.

Right, so instead of watching Watson throwing to Watkins and Woods this season, we get to watch McDermott's chemistry experiment.  Great.

[Mat68]

The offense never started to quit.  The defense was on the feild the whole game.  Buffalo were lucky to hold them to 17 at half.  The problem is the offense.

[vincec]

Just now, Green Lightning said:

 

This. Our trajectory is now 7-9. I expect some spectacular losses to NE to boot.

You have to think that they split with Miami and beat indy at home, so if they can win next week then it's 8-8 otherwise, yeah 7-9.

[Victory Formation]

I'm honestly surprised this hasn't happened sooner. The team quit?? We completely over performed for the first quarter of the season. We have a roster full of nobody's, I expected 4 wins max, we're probably going to finish with 8.