Did the defense quit on Coach Thursday?

[MAJBobby]

57 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Come on...one bad game and now wondering if the team quit on McD?  All the praise by the players about McD, the chip on their shoulders, loving proving people wrong, and the change in culture are now suddenly being over looked and now we need to question if they quit on the coach?  

 

Man, lets not over analyze one game.  It was embarrassing loss for sure.  I have seen great teams get embarrassed before.  Its one game that was on a short week where the team mostly came out flat.  It happens, time to move on and see how they respond next week.  One game out of 8 doesn't make a norm or reason to quit.

 

Not true.  Last year was HEAVILY skewed by the false positive in the shutout of the Pats due to extreme circumstances.  In the other 15 games, the defense was awful, including being 26th in the NFL in points allowed at over 26 points per game.  Hence the "false positive" which means "a result which incorrectly indicates that a particular condition or attribute is present."

 

I already know your tired response of you cant remove games to cherry pick stats.  Which is actually not true.  You look at conditions that falsely a conclusion due to extreme circumstances, and shutting out a Pats team with NO Brady, Jimmy, or Gronk who started a rookie 3rd string QB with a messed up hand qualifies.  Especially considering the overwhelming data over the other 15 games, or 94% of the season.  Furthermore, once those extreme conditions were removed a few weeks later, Brady put up over 40 points on us to prove the false positive week 4 results. And had Brady played week 4 and put up 31 or more on us then, we actually would have dropped to 28th in the NFL...and its MORE than FAIR to say the probability of that was greater than 90%.  

 

When your D gives up an average of 25 points per game in 94% of the games played...guess what, your D sucks.  We were literally one of the absolute worst defenses last year and its not even close.  

 

 

It is true they are AVG this year. That is what i said. Is it not?

39 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I think you are completely understating how good they were in the beginning of the season.  I just went through the first four games.  I have to make a correction to my first post.  The Jets scored a TD just missed the extra point.  I took it as two fgs until I went through the game.  Now that that is out of the way...

 

Jets

3 and out

3 and out

FG

FG

19 yards punt

3 and out

TD

22 yards punt

3rd and 8 INT

3 and out

End of game INT

 

Even without the turnovers the D had a very good game.

 

Panthers

FG

PUNT

PUNT

FG

3 and out

3 and out

3 and out

PUNT no yardage gained

FG

 

Again the defense had a very good game

 

Denver

3 and out

PUNT

FG

TD - they allowed a big run and got two 15 yard penalties.  It wasn't really a drive at all

3 and out

FG

FG

INT on 2nd and 23

19 yards then turnover on downs

INT

20 yards then turnover on downs

 

Again the defense had a very good game.

 

Atlanta

PUNT
PUNT
FG
PUNT
TD
Fumble on 3rd and 9

INT

TD

INT on 3rd and 17

Turnover on downs.

 

Again the defense had a very good game.

 

Those first four games the defense was stellar.  Take away the turnovers and the games aren't much different because they were stopping the other team anyways.  Taking away turnovers is stupid though because its part of being a good defense.  Again, you can spin it however you want to but they were still very good and you highly understate how they started the first four games.

 

 

 

 

 

I am begining to think you dont understand that a defense that hovers around 16 all year in DVOA is the definition of AVG 

 

notice how i am using DVOA and not the BS stat people have been using of yards against to show the defense is bad. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by MAJBobby

[dulles]

5 hours ago, Foreigner said:

You all saw the game Thursday. The Jets ran the ball for 194 yards. Missed tackles all over the field

At 3:39 of the 4th Quarter Matt Forte practically walked on lst down 5 yards into the end zone untouched'

for a 31-7 Jets lead.

 

Phil Simms on CBS said Monday "Missed tackles are a big thing. That tells you they (the players) don't have

enough guys hustling". Rodney Harrison on NBC said Sunday "When you don't respect your coach,

players will quit on you

So was the defense so bad, worse in the 2nd half,  because

1. The defense quit

2. Or no Dareus

3. Or the Jets saw something on tape no other offense had seen this year.

 

Whatever you think, Drew Brees is coming to New Era Sunday and he is no chopped liver. 3rd all time in

NFL Career Passing Yards with over 68,000. 4th all time is Mr. Brady with over 64,000.

 

Will the defense meet the challenge  Sunday? 

I don't think the defense quit.  I think they got beat man on man.  I think Humber jumped into the wrong gap a few times.  I think they were the tired, road team on a Thursday.  They just got beat.  It happens in football sometimes.

[Scott7975]

31 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

 

It is true they are AVG this year. That is what i said. Is it not?

 

 

I am begining to think you dont understand that a defense that hovers around 16 all year in DVOA is the definition of AVG 

 

notice how i am using DVOA and not the BS stat people have been using of yards against to show the defense is bad. 

I'm using what actually happened on the field and not stats at all.  But for that matter they were ranked 3rd in DVOA after week 5.  SO no, they were not ALWAYS average like you claim.  After week 7 they were still 8th.  Even after week 8 they were still 10th.

 

Nice try though.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Scott7975

[BearNorth]

I was at the Raiders Game, the Bills used a lot of emotional energy in that game. 

Short week, and an opponent whose season went into the dumpster if they lost. 

Hopefully longer week and getting significant talent back from Injury,

NO is a dome team, and weather looks kinda sucky for Sunday.

Breese is an indoor, warm weather QB, hoping for a sleet storm and Lorax attack.

 

 

[QuoteTheRaven83]

Yup. The team quit on the coach after a big trade for Benjamin. Makes sense.

[Reks Ryan]

5 hours ago, SaviorPeterman said:

I think a lot of folks still aren't understanding that this roster is very devoid of game changing talent and depth which is why McD does deserve credit for doing yeoman's work with the roster as is.

 

Now obviously a guy like Kelvin Benjamin (and Clay coming back) will help to a certain degree. But we can't change the offensive line or solve the many issues we have in the front seven until FA and the draft.

 

Bottom line is the Jets exposed some fatal flaws that were masked earlier in the season but will now come full circle down the stretch playing serious contenders like the Chiefs, Saints, Pats and Dolphins twice each that will no doubt lead to similar performances like TNF.

 

 

 I am concerned that when the Bills sweep Miami they will help the Fish get a top 3 pick in the draft and get a QB

[Sweats]

If anything, i'd say the coach quit on the team............he didn't have them prepared and did nothing for the half time adjustments.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

 

 

It is true they are AVG this year. That is what i said. Is it not?

 

 

I am begining to think you dont understand that a defense that hovers around 16 all year in DVOA is the definition of AVG 

 

notice how i am using DVOA and not the BS stat people have been using of yards against to show the defense is bad. 

 

I was referencing your never-ending insistence over the past year that they were average LAST year in all your quests to discredit TT.  

[Believer]

The team failed to perform from the start... Both sides of the ball... Whether it was poor preparation by coaches... or poor execution by players... the team failed to perform... The team leaders did not rally their teammates... The Jets built momentum and never looked back... Our guys were dominated all night... It was an embarrassment... 

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, KelsaysLunchbox said:

I was thinking this as well watching the game. It's like they heard about how great they were creating turnovers and just went for that. Gotta wrap up. Let 2nd guy in go for the ball. 

Losing Dareus I don't feel was as big as not having Milano out there. Guy can create a spark.

 I think you'll find Frazier will start incorporating Milano more into the defense the second half of the season.

1 hour ago, Believer said:

The team failed to perform from the start... Both sides of the ball... Whether it was poor preparation by coaches... or poor execution by players... the team failed to perform... The team leaders did not rally their teammates... The Jets built momentum and never looked back... Our guys were dominated all night... It was an embarrassment... 

  other than probably Kyle Williams this team is lacking an inspirational vocal leadership guy.  There just seems to be nobody there to fire up the team  other than the excessive clapping by McDermott.

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

no, the defense did NOT quit

 

 

 

This.

 

Poor performance? Yeah. Getting their butts kicked? Yup. Quitting, no, and it's a pretty silly question.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

It appeared to me that they got discouraged and quit on D.

 

I've excused much of the issue to age + Thursday night road game..........but they were playing pretty solid on D until Matthews fumbled, costing the team points at the end of the half and then after getting the ball right back to start the second half Dennison turtled with 2 consecutive run plays.

 

Reflected a palpable lack of urgency from the coaching staff.

 

Like.......Ok the games close let's just let the defense handle this.

 

I think the defense was discouraged and being a work-in-progress in terms of mental toughness they kinda' checked out early.

 

If they could have held strong for a couple more series the game may turn out very differently but tired team + discouraging coaching is a formula for taking series off.

Edited November 8, 2017 by BADOLBILZ

[MAJBobby]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

I'm using what actually happened on the field and not stats at all.  But for that matter they were ranked 3rd in DVOA after week 5.  SO no, they were not ALWAYS average like you claim.  After week 7 they were still 8th.  Even after week 8 they were still 10th.

 

Nice try though.

 

The are 16th overall DVOA as of last game. 

 

But hey if we are using what we see in the field then why are stats always used to defense certain positions. Is it stats or eys that we are allowed to use when talking about Bills?

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I was referencing your never-ending insistence over the past year that they were average LAST year in all your quests to discredit TT.  

 

Did i every mention TT in this thread??? Or was that you??

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

The are 16th overall DVOA as of last game. 

 

But hey if we are using what we see in the field then why are stats always used to defense certain positions. Is it stats or eys that we are allowed to use when talking about Bills?

 

Did i every mention TT in this thread??? Or was that you??

 

I would say nice deflection, but it really wasn't.  Just your standard move.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

 

Yea which is scary because it's similar to that 2011 defense.

 

They had one real good game against the Panthers, other then that they've been trending downwards and they just traded a pretty good defensive lineman. 

This is crap. Besides the turnovers, this defense has stopped the run in all the games they won.  Give credit to the team.

[NFLBighits]

The Jets went into the game with a revenge taste and a must win game!  Lets see if they can keep that lightning in the bottle passion but I doubt it and it was a close game the first half and I think we will be fine but are offense and defense should continuing growing and lets keep are finger's crossed anyways as it's been a long long long time since we sniffed playoff's !

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

 

The are 16th overall DVOA as of last game. 

 

But hey if we are using what we see in the field then why are stats always used to defense certain positions. Is it stats or eys that we are allowed to use when talking about Bills?

 

Did i every mention TT in this thread??? Or was that you??

You said "If they hang around 16 all season they are avg."  They haven't hung around 16 all season.  They been outside of top 10 for 1 week out of 9.

[row_33]

It’s Thursday Night. The game is over in ten minutes as one team is clearly better off than the other playing the short week.

 

 

[WhoTom]

Simply put, the Bills came to chew bubblegum and kick ass, but they brought too much bubblegum.

 

 

 

[K-9]

16 hours ago, Augie said:

They played a stinker on the road after a short week. It happens. I’ll just look forward and see what trend develops. 

^This. I think it was an anomaly. Reminiscent of those trips we would take to KC or Pitt back in the day and get totally wiped out and embarrassed. Not saying this team is anywhere near those early 90s teams, but it's not unusual for good teams to lay an egg now and then.