SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Or you can play some defense (Rex) and not fall behind 14 in the first place? Or not punting 4 times in a row works too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Then you will hear a bunch of people talk about how they are misleading. Everyone else's numbers tell a story but Tyrod's aren't real. That's why I'm always defending him. It's not because he's great but might be the most unappreciated player we've ever had. The guy is the exact guy we love too. He's a humble guy, earned everything, never complained about money, losing his weapons or criticism or anything. Just came out and played at a level none of us could have expected 2 1/2 years ago. Yet so many still aren't convinced that he's even a starting QB?!? There is mounds and mounds of evidence to say otherwise and basically nothing supporting it other than stubbornness. He doesn't look like what they want their qb to look like. I'll leave it at that... What's weird is all these numbers place Tyrod in the top 5-10 QB's statistically and yet we all agree we should move on from him. Strange world. I don't agree at all see below... As they should. Keep Tyrod and draft a QB in the first.... the position is too valuable and has been ignored for too long. I might be one of the bigger TT defenders on the board. I'm fully on board with a first round qb still. The position is that important and the Bills have a ton of draft capital. However I don't want the Bills to move on from TT until the first rounder or draftee proves that he is the better option. So grab a guy and make him earn it. I'm comfortable with TT as the starter until something better comes along or the young guy passes him in ability. If TT ends up getting "it" then awesome and would be a good problem to have. I'm dreaming of a Brees/Rivers scenario but that would be absolutely best case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) Such a bad take, but keep going! I'm busting chops here Scott because I can. Anyone can speculate a number of likely scenarios Was it the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ that allowed the 14 point deficit 3 times, 1) Defense 2) Offense 3) Defense and the Offense 4) Special Teams (missing FG's or fumbling) *** when was the last time the Bills fumbled a kick? 5) Coaching / play calling There are times when you need to be able to keep pace with high scoring teams. That in and of itself, as crazy as it seems, falls more to the offense Edited September 27, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 he's being sarcastic. he routinely bags on him and said the other day he'd take siemian over him. Thanks. I was unaware of the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Was 126 vs Denver defense. Just saying! Wonder how much better it would be for the season if those 4 TD drops had been caught. Clay Tolbert Jones x1 Jones x2. Clay catch would have negated a int. Jones x2 was no deal as he tipped it to Holmes. Tolbert I thought was a catch and TD as he did not go to the ground to make the catch but not clear on the rule now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) I get what you're saying. But let's look at this from the other side. There are days when neither the defense nor the running attack is effective enough and you must pass to win. Some Sundays you need your QB to throw for 300 yards or more. If the team can win with the the QB just being a role player, great. But can your QB be the hero when you need production in the passing game? When the defense is looking for the pass, can your QB still drive the team down the field? Those are the questions people ask about TT and about all QBs. Timely "Passing Yards" do matter. Timely passing yards. Ya know, I've been thinking about a comment another poster made to me last week regarding the bet thread I put up. And they told me we shouldn't include "garbage yards" and it would be fine. Of course, my bet naturally excluded garbage yards in the traditional sense, but it also got me thinking about garbage yards. In a way, isn't Tom Brady the King of Garbage yards and TDs? Think about his record breaking year with Randy Moss back in the almost-undefeated season, for example. The Patriots were just absolutely stomping on opponents deep into the 4th quarter. They absolutely crushed us that year: 56-10. And they were up 35-7 at the half. But the Patriots kept Brady in and kept passing the ball. Over 40 yards and a TD on their first drive of the 3rd quarter. Up 42-7. Did they take him out? Nope Brady came in for another drive against a team that literally stood no chance of coming back. And the Pats continued to pass the football on a drive where he passed for 40+ more yards and the Pats ended with a rushing TD. Finally, with the Pats up 49-7, Brady would take a seat for Matt Cassell. But were those 86 yards and a TD not garbage yards in the same way a QB's yards and TDs are garbage yards when coming from behind? I know the argument will become, "well it's clear that losing team is trying and they could easily just try to stop them." But do you seriously think that a defense that's in front by a lot on another team just stops trying? Or are their competitive juices flowing fast and free as they see an opportunity to rack up some of their own individual stats and embarrass the opponent even more? When you think about it this way, isn't it possible that with the offensive approach that's been largely the same from Roman to Lynn to Dennison has set this up so that Taylor's passing yards and TDs have been almost entirely meaningful rather than meaningless? And that across the NFL, most QBs have a helluva lot more garbage yards than Taylor largely because of a relatively similar approach I referred to above with the Patriots combined with the fact that plenty of other QBs are constantly playing from behind by a lot and passing the football? The thing is, QBs across the NFL lose more than they win when they have to pass the ball a lot more than their average. But when Taylor has actually had to pass and come from behind, there are examples where he and the team came oh-so-close because of his arm: Carolina last week, Seattle and Miami in 2016, and even the first NE game and the Giants game (barring terrible ref calls) of 2015. He's just not really getting over the hump. That doesn't mean he can't do it. He just hasn't. We'll see what happens this year if/when that happens. But stop getting so hung up on this total passing yards thing rather than looking at the when and the where of those passing yards and TDs. Timely passing yards do matter. That seems to largely be what Taylor's passing yards have been so far in his career. Edited September 27, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Wonder how much better it would be for the season if those 4 TD drops had been caught. Clay Tolbert Jones x1 Jones x2. Clay catch would have negated a int. Jones x2 was no deal as he tipped it to Holmes. Tolbert I thought was a catch and TD as he did not go to the ground to make the catch but not clear on the rule now. well the Tolbert one is a none issue becuz on the next play it was a td pass. and on the play the jones one is a none issue becuz it was caught anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) Hey, we won. Glad to see T2 have the game he did. It was a big game. I'm expecting a similar output @ ATL. Not as high as he did vs. Denver, but love how he responds after he's had a rough game. Carolina played tough. He is a true competitor and hope he's at the helm to break the 17 year playoff drought. Edited September 27, 2017 by KollegeStudnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Doesn't ESPN's QBR factor in the context of a play? Everybody hates that stat. I've always felt that ESPN's QBR pretty accurately reflects the level of play for QBs across the NFL, in general. There are obviously exceptions, but I think looking at it gives a pretty good idea of how a QB played. Oh boy... that's gonna cause an uproar per NFL.com Brady 1092 - 71 of 110 Brees 867 - 76 of 111 Stafford 678 - 69 of 107 Taylor 562 - 53 of 79 Funny they left off #1 Sam Bradford, #2 Alex Smith and #4 Jared Goff 3 sites 3 different results. It shows that these QB ranking are inaccurate indicators What are you showing us here? Pass attempts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 and the Bills lost. amiright? When Taylor faces a 14 point deficit three separate times and comes out with a W, then we can all shout with glee. You really put that loss on Taylor? OMG dude. He gave the team a 3 point lead with 1:11 seconds left and Miami had no timeouts. That's a game they should win every time. The D allowed Miami to get in field goal range and kick a field goal in 27 seconds. That should never happen. In overtime Taylor lead them to Miami's 17 yardline. McCoy then lost 2 yards. Right after Bush lost 8 yards. Even still a kicker should easily make that kick from the 27 yardline. Or not punting 4 times in a row works too . You are talking about the Miami game right? They didn't punt 4 times in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Wow. When do they fit him for his gold jacket? He's currently ahead of Trevor in the poll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) he does not turn the ball over.... at all. that, plus top 5 defense and +2 on turnovers, you will win most of the time against anyone if you're kicking game is excellent, which ours is. we shall see. injuries always the wild card, but they seem to have good schemes and depth in the front 7 and O Line. Man, pretty sure they are in real trouble away from the Ralph this week, but beyond that who knows... looks like the Bills are going to whiff on the "generational" QB draft... again. but TT looks more like a QB than the running QB he was; he actually looks slower and more calculated this year; not taking any hits at all (good) but you have to admire what they have done so far. D looks stout all the way around. kicking game is strong. ST better than have been in years. Once henderson back, O Line will actually get better. gotta like it. they will come to earth hard on the tough road this week in all likelihood (and you guys will piss all over everything right on cue), but boy they seem to compete to win Edited September 27, 2017 by 8-8 Forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) What are you showing us here? Pass attempts?Good guess Yards Completions and Attempts You really put that loss on Taylor? OMG dude. He gave the team a 3 point lead with 1:11 seconds left and Miami had no timeouts. That's a game they should win every time. The D allowed Miami to get in field goal range and kick a field goal in 27 seconds. That should never happen. In overtime Taylor lead them to Miami's 17 yardline. McCoy then lost 2 yards. Right after Bush lost 8 yards. Even still a kicker should easily make that kick from the 27 yardline. You are talking about the Miami game right? They didn't punt 4 times in a row. I was talking to the post. I didnt look to see what game he was referring too. Re Miami. Score a TD on the first OT drive Game Over To get back to my comments Wouldn't you be gleeful if TT bested that effort? Edited September 27, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-BillzeBubba Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 he does not turn the ball over.... at all. that, plus top 5 defense and +2 on turnovers, you will win most of the time against anyone if you're kicking game is excellent, which ours is. we shall see. injuries always the wild card, but they seem to have good schemes and depth in the front 7 and O Line. Man, pretty sure they are in real trouble away from the Ralph this week, but beyond that who knows... looks like the Bills are going to whiff on the "generational" QB draft... again. but TT looks more like a QB than the running QB he was; he actually looks slower and more calculated this year; not taking any hits at all (good) but you have to admire what they have done so far. D looks stout all the way around. kicking game is strong. ST better than have been in years. Once henderson back, O Line will actually get better. gotta like it. they will come to earth hard on the tough road this week in all likelihood (and you guys will piss all over everything right on cue), but boy they seem to compete to win He's actually getting hit a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Good guess Yards Completions and Attempts I was talking to the post. I didnt look to see what game he was referring too. Re Miami. Score a TD on the first OT drive Game Over To get back to my comments Wouldn't you be gleeful if TT bested that effort? Sure but you can't expect a TD on every drive. Especially when the OC calls Reggie Bush number for minus 8 yards on second down. Taylor did more than enough to win that game if the defense wasn't a Swiss cheese. Also people say that the Denver game was his best game. I think Miami was. He was on fire in both passing and rushing that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Good guess Yards Completions and Attempts Hang on here. Is anyone talking about Taylor being as good as Brees or Brady? But at least take a more holistic approach here. Here are total touches (pass attempts+sacks+runs), NET yards (passing yards-sack yards+rushing yards), 1st down conversion % on 3rd down passes, 1st down % on all throws, and TD% for all throws. Brady 1035 / 125 / 8.3 / 50.0% / 41.8% / 7.3% Brees 845 / 114 / 7.4 / 43.3% / 36.9% / 5.4% Brees and especially Brady are pretty much going to be ahead of the pack in about every category, obviously. They're pass-centric offenses. But Stafford's probably a better comparison because the Lions run more than they pass. And a lot of Taylor's runs are on designed passing plays, so the numbers are probably closer. But here's how Taylor and Stafford compare. Stafford 713 / 120 / 5.9 / 40.0% / 34.6% / 6.5% Taylor 628 / 112 / 5.6 / 42.3% / 38.0% / 5.1% Much closer. Stafford averages about 28 yards more per game on a few more touches per game, so far. Taylor has been better on 3rd downs and throwing for 1st downs in general. While Stafford has thrown more TDs per attempt. At least try to align the types of offenses when you do these comparisons. Brees is always gonna throw a ton. So is Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) well the Tolbert one is a none issue becuz on the next play it was a td pass. and on the play the jones one is a none issue becuz it was caught anyways. I understand that. And Tolbert and Jones#2 happened on same drive. So in my scenario Jones#2 never happens. However if all first open for TD balls are caught. He has 3 less incompletions(tolbert, jones#1, clay) and 1 less int(Clay's fault)and 2 more TD(to Clay and Jones#1). And 1 less attempt plus 1 less completion(Jones#2) With TT small sample size that would move his QB rating a fair amount better. I found a calculator. He goes from 99.2 to 119.07 Just behind Tom Brady for league lead. Edited September 28, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Sure but you can't expect a TD on every drive. Especially when the OC calls Reggie Bush number for minus 8 yards on second down. Taylor did more than enough to win that game if the defense wasn't a Swiss cheese. Also people say that the Denver game was his best game. I think Miami was. He was on fire in both passing and rushing that game. Taylor wins @Sea,@Oak and vs Mia with an average D. 3 playoff teams If we try in the Jet game that's potentially 11 wins. I said it all off season, Tyrod + a quality defense = success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 I've said this quite a few times, as long as this defense is a top 5-8 defense with a good ground attack that TT is a more than capable QB to lead us to the playoffs What I'm most pleasantly surprised is that last game our run game was largely muted and Rico and TT were able to devise and execute a game plan to put up 26 points against one of the best defenses in the NFL. If they can continue to do that then that will greatly increase our odds of reaching the playoffs. That's still a big if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Sure but you can't expect a TD on every drive. Especially when the OC calls Reggie Bush number for minus 8 yards on second down. Taylor did more than enough to win that game if the defense wasn't a Swiss cheese. Also people say that the Denver game was his best game. I think Miami was. He was on fire in both passing and rushing that game. Why Not? See the - No punt game Buffalo @ SF. No team scores on every drive. What we need to see is the 3rd down conversion rate closer to 50% than 25-30% weekly. Yes I know not all TT's fault. Which game again? Seattle or Miami? Those are his 2 standout games from 2016. Why is it so wrong to want to see TT have 8 or 10 standout games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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