National Anthem (Cameron Jefferson)

[Kelly the Dog]

 

What evidence do you cite that refutes the study done by an industry expert? I know....none. Just your unqualified opinion based on your saying it was the case. Color me convinced.

There seems to be a lot of that going around.

[26CornerBlitz]

There seems to be a lot of that going around.

 

It's an epidemic. Refute evidence from scholarly studies as illegitimate because they don't support a preconceived notion or conclusion.

Edited September 1, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[Mickey]

We fought a war against you people for oiur freedom. That's what the song is babout and that's why we stand. It's as a sign of respect for that flag and those men who fought opression to give us our freedom.

Yeah! And if you don't wear a flag pin you don't love America and you are disrespecting the troops. If you don't have a flag hanging from your porch, a stars and stripes license plate frame and a pack of red, white and blue condoms in your wallet you are an unamerican, unpatriotic, disrespectful, soldier-hating worthless piece of trash who is not half the American I am. Really. I mean it.

[stony]

Go USA! Everybody here that wants to squash the imperialistic bastards of Costa Rica should watch some soccer. Pulisic is the real deal!

 

Happy Friday!

[RaoulDuke79]

It's an epidemic. Refute evidence from scholarly studies as illegitimate because they don't support a preconceived notion or conclusion.

I suppose you can pick and choose whatever source you want to make a point. I'll gonwith this one

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/tech-media/2017/08/31/colin-kaepernick-nfl-ratings-cbs-study-sean-mcmanus%3fsource=dam

[Azalin]

http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/31/cameron-jefferson-heckled-bills-fan-fist-roster-spot-remain-air/

 

It's the National Anthem. Stand and show your respect. It's not a time to call attention to yourself or whatever your individual cause is. This is probably the only time you will hear that guys name other than on the cut list. If you don't know what to do during the National Anthem look at Eric Wood in the photo.

I swear if any Bills player doesn't stand for the National Anthem and the team does nothing about it I will not support this team any longer.

Who is with me?

​

 

I understand why you feel this way, but as much as we may not care for some peoples' methods of protest, as long as he's not hurting anyone, damaging any property, or violating any NFL rules, then he has every right to express himself as he sees fit.

 

We have every right to react however we choose, provided we do so lawfully.

[Augie]

When the study in question notes in it's own weaknesses that they have no idea if the employers ever saw the names on the resumes in an employment environment where automated processes have replaced human review, amongst other critiques? In a study that attempts to link name preference to racism at the expense of all other reasons for the discrepancy, and doesn't account for unusual "white" names, or ethnic "white" names in the process? Yes, I have my strong doubts.

Again, you didn't answer both parts of the question. OK, I get that you want to question the study (for some reason). Do you really believe that this is NOT a real thing?

[Kelly the Dog]

I suppose you can pick and choose whatever source you want to make a point. I'll gonwith this onehttps://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/tech-media/2017/08/31/colin-kaepernick-nfl-ratings-cbs-study-sean-mcmanus%3fsource=dam

Your own link doesn't really support your argument all that much. It provides more evidence that it didn't affect the ratings. McManus of CBS said it probably was a factor but didn't know how much either way and when he discussed the factors he mentioned three others that weren't anything to do with the Kaep situation.

[26CornerBlitz]

I suppose you can pick and choose whatever source you want to make a point. I'll gonwith this one

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/tech-media/2017/08/31/colin-kaepernick-nfl-ratings-cbs-study-sean-mcmanus%3fsource=dam

 

The link you provided doesn't support the claim by x54soldier that Kaep was a big factor in the ratings decline.

 

Your own link doesn't really support your argument all that much. It provides more evidence that it didn't affect the ratings. McManus of CBS said it probably was a factor but didn't know how much either way and when he discussed the factors he mentioned three others that weren't anything to do with the Kaep situation.

 

Exactly

 

“We did research and it was relatively proprietary research, to be honest with you,” McManus said. “But I think if you look at some of the reasons why NFL viewership was down last year, that is a reason that’s mentioned by a fair amount of viewers. It is something they don’t find attractive or they find don’t compelling in coverage of the football game. How big a factor it was? I don’t really know. But it was one of the factors that I think perhaps led to the slight decrease in ratings last year.”

 

McManus said he believed the biggest factor in last year’s decline was news coverage of the election, particularly in the primetime windows. “That was an important factor,” he said.

Edited September 1, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[3rdand12]

I support Cameron Jefferson.
I have read his reasonings via his quotes. May his God watch over him and may he be blessed.

 

 

Go America!

Go Humanity!

and hell yes

Go Bills!!

 

we all know Thomas Jefferson was a great Man and founding Father. Who had relations with his slaves.

Not a perfect world.

 

Lets keep an open mind about each person.

Edited September 1, 2017 by 3rdand12

[TakeYouToTasker]

Again, you didn't answer both parts of the question. OK, I get that you want to question the study (for some reason). Do you really believe that this is NOT a real thing?

I question, as should you and everyone else, anything that comes your way as the spear tip of an agenda. This case is not special or different.

 

I pointed out a non-comprehensive list of problems with the study, and since those presenting the study are making a positive assertion with it, the burden of proff falls to them.

 

The inability to account for the (glaring) flaws leaves me unconvinced.

 

Further, anyone who is convinced by the study linked, without demanding answers to the problems posed, is reporting to confirmation biases, and is seeking out a problem to fit their solution. As opposed to a solution to fit their problem.

[26CornerBlitz]

I question, as should you and everyone else, anything that comes your way as the spear tip of an agenda. This case is not special or different.

 

I pointed out a non-comprehensive list of problems with the study, and since those presenting the study are making a positive assertion with it, the burden of proff falls to them.

 

The inability to account for the (glaring) flaws leaves me unconvinced.

 

Further, anyone who is convinced by the study linked, without demanding answers to the problems posed, is reporting to confirmation biases, and is seeking out a problem to fit their solution. As opposed to a solution to fit their problem.

 

A solution looking for a problem. Sounds just like the Voter ID laws you support based on flimsy claims of voter fraud.

[Augie]

I question, as should you and everyone else, anything that comes your way as the spear tip of an agenda. This case is not special or different.

I pointed out a non-comprehensive list of problems with the study, and since those presenting the study are making a positive assertion with it, the burden of proff falls to them.

The inability to account for the (glaring) flaws leaves me unconvinced.

Further, anyone who is convinced by the study linked, without demanding answers to the problems posed, is reporting to confirmation biases, and is seeking out a problem to fit their solution. As opposed to a solution to fit their problem.

OK, I won't ask yet again if you think this is a real thing. I give up. I don't need a study to question or review, I know it's real. How prevalent? That's the only question.

[Kelly the Dog]

I question, as should you and everyone else, anything that comes your way as the spear tip of an agenda. This case is not special or different.

 

I pointed out a non-comprehensive list of problems with the study, and since those presenting the study are making a positive assertion with it, the burden of proff falls to them.

 

The inability to account for the (glaring) flaws leaves me unconvinced.

 

Further, anyone who is convinced by the study linked, without demanding answers to the problems posed, is reporting to confirmation biases, and is seeking out a problem to fit their solution. As opposed to a solution to fit their problem.

In your mind I guess all studies based on questionnaires are invalid because the researchers can't be sure the people filling them out actually read the question

[RaoulDuke79]

The link you provided doesn't support the claim by x54soldier that Kaep was a big factor in the ratings decline.

 

 

 

Exactly

 

I guess we fundamentally disagree over this. I'm not spending any more time on it today. Let everyone do what they feel inclined to do. Carry on.

[grinreaper]

 

A solution looking for a problem. Sounds just like the Voter ID laws you support based on flimsy claims of voter fraud.

Find a link to this in the "There's No Voter Fraud " thread:

 

More than 14,000 votes were cast in Chicago during the 2016 general election than there were voters to cast them, based on separate figures released by the Chicago Board of Elections, the chairman of the Chicago Republican Party has reported.

Chris Cleveland told the Chicago Wire that "on a whim," he filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the board, which provided him with a list of 1,101,178 people who voted in the general election. An earlier post on the board's website said that 1,115,664 votes had been cast.

Chris Cleveland, chairman, Chicago Republican Party

“There should never be more votes than voters,” Cleveland said. “Every ballot cast should be recorded against a registered voter.”

[TakeYouToTasker]

OK, I won't ask yet again if you think this is a real thing. I give up. I don't need a study to question or review, I know it's real. How prevalent? That's the only question.

Based on what evidence do you know it's real?

 

Gut feeling and instinct? Are you a true believer?

In your mind I guess all studies based on questionnaires are invalid because the researchers can't be sure the people filling them out actually read the question

In a world where resumes are no longer filtered and read by people, but rather are filtered through an algorythm, questions related to whether or not a study is valid because it's researchers don't know if the names on the resumes were actually read when their entire premise hinges on whether or not the names on the resumes were actually read is kind of a big deal, don't you think?

[Kelly the Dog]

Based on what evidence do you know it's real?

Gut feeling and instinct? Are you a true believer?

Your glaring flaws are not flaws at all. They're extremely weak. One of yours is the names Williams and Jones are not really black names and could be white is completely irrelevant. The first names are the ones that were in question not the last names. All of the white and black last names were generic and they used the most common generic names for both races. It was the first names by far that would show the difference. Like Jill vs Lakisha. Jill Kelly versus Lakisha Jones. The idea that they discounted ones that would hold in house interviews, well duh. That would eliminate the whole idea of the study. It HAD to be a totally blind test. The idea that the researchers couldn't be sure the people read the names on the applications was discussed above. That's nonsense.

[Augie]

Based on what evidence do you know it's real?

Gut feeling and instinct? Are you a true believer?

I was in the hiring and firing business in the low country of SC for a couple decades. I hired hundreds and fired dozens, and more importantly, I watched what my counterparts were doing. More recently, I've worked in the high end rental housing market in Atlanta. When Shamiqua will go to great lengths to hide her first name, despite being a corporate attorney for a Fortune 500 company, it's because of the reality, not the perception.

 

I play tennis several days a week at a park where I am usually the only white guy there all day. I don't need a study you approve of to know what I know.

 

Feel free to delude yourself that racism does not exist. (And for the record, it can and does go both ways.)

[TakeYouToTasker]

I was in the hiring and firing business in the low country of SC for a couple decades. I hired hundreds and fired dozens, and more importantly, I watched what my counterparts were doing. More recently, I've worked in the high end rental housing market in Atlanta. When Shamiqua will go to great lengths to hide her first name, despite being a corporate attorney for a Fortune 500 company, it's because of the reality, not the perception.

 

I play tennis several days a week at a park where I am usually the only white guy there all day. I don't need a study you approve of to know what I know.

 

Feel free to delude yourself that racism does not exist. (And for the record, it can and does go both ways.)

So you're a true believer, and in addition to that a lousy clairvoyant. I'll ask you to source where I claimed that racism or racists don't exist?

[Kelly the Dog]

I was in the hiring and firing business in the low country of SC for a couple decades. I hired hundreds and fired dozens, and more importantly, I watched what my counterparts were doing. More recently, I've worked in the high end rental housing market in Atlanta. When Shamiqua will go to great lengths to hide her first name, despite being a corporate attorney for a Fortune 500 company, it's because of the reality, not the perception.

I play tennis several days a week at a park where I am usually the only white guy there all day. I don't need a study you approve of to know what I know.

Feel free to delude yourself that racism does not exist. (And for the record, it can and does go both ways.)

One of my close friends from high school just retired from working for Erie County in downtown Buffalo, deciding if people would get Medicaid coverage on this or that. He told me flat out that he didn't really like "the Oh-twos" (for 02, what black people checked off in the race question on their applications) so if they were late for appointments he would make them sit there for hours before he called their names but if it was a white person he would just get them in as soon as there was an opening. And this was a good friend of mine.

[TakeYouToTasker]

One of my close friends from high school just retired from working for Erie County in downtown Buffalo, deciding if people would get Medicaid coverage on this or that. He told me flat out that he didn't really like "the Oh-twos" (for 02, what black people checked off in the race question on their applications) so if they were late for appointments he would make them sit there for hours before he called their names but if it was a white person he would just get them in as soon as there was an opening. And this was a good friend of mine.

Sounds like a ****ty person, and an actual racist. I assume you worked to get him fired for it?

[Augie]

So you're a true believer, and in addition to that a lousy clairvoyant. I'll ask you to source where I claimed that racism or racists don't exist?

I asked at least 4 times if you felt this was a real thing or not. You failed to answer every time. That's all I have to form a judgement, as you refused to give me anything else. I don't know what you think, because you refused to answer. (AND....you STILL have!)

Edited September 2, 2017 by Augie

[Doc Brown]

In a world where resumes are no longer filtered and read by people, but rather are filtered through an algorythm, questions related to whether or not a study is valid because it's researchers don't know if the names on the resumes were actually read when their entire premise hinges on whether or not the names on the resumes were actually read is kind of a big deal, don't you think?

That's a valid point and I'd like to see a similar study done in today's job marketplace.

[TakeYouToTasker]

I asked at least 4 times if you felt this was a real thing or not. You failed to answer every time. That's all I need to form a judgement, as you refused to give me anything else. I don't know what you think, because you refused to answer. (AND....you STILL have!)

And there's the issue. I don't attempt to feel my way through difficult problems, and I don't let ancidotes color my understanding of reality.

 

You want me to believe something, but you want to skip over the part where you have to prove to me that the thing is real, and instead just have me believe your fiat declarations.

 

That's not how reasonable thinking people operate. You may wish to change tact.

 

In fact, if you want to win me over to your argument, you'll need to. And you should want to, because I despise racists, and I want to help you fight them. But first you'll have to offer proof.

Edited September 2, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[Kelly the Dog]

Sounds like a ****ty person, and an actual racist. I assume you worked to get him fired for it?

I gave him a rack of schit about it about 100 times. Outside of him feeling and acting like that you wouldn't think he was a dick. Buffalo is one of the more racist places I have been to. I know several guys who,are universally beloved, the nicest guys in the world, who would do anything for you, and everyone they know loves them, and yet they will say, "those fukking n*ggers" as easy as they would say "those jerks."

[TakeYouToTasker]

I gave him a rack of schit about it about 100 times. Outside of him feeling and acting like that you wouldn't think he was a dick. Buffalo is one of the more racist places I have been to. I know several guys who,are universally beloved, the nicest guys in the world, who would do anything for you, and everyone they know loves them, and yet they will say, "those fukking n*ggers" as easy as they would say "those jerks."

So, you found an actual racist doing actual harm to people, working in government no less, who admitted to you that he didn't honor his obligation under the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, and didn't work to have him exposed and fired because "reasons"?

 

That's the real problem right there.

 

Meanwhile you're up in arms because I refuse to chase ghosts around on lack of evidence.

[Augie]

And there's the issue. I don't attempt to feel my way through difficult problems, and I don't let ancidotes color my understanding of reality.

You want me to believe something, but you want to skip over the part where you have to prove to me that the thing is real, and instead just have me believe your fiat declarations.

That's not how reasonable thinking people operate. You may wish to change tact.

In fact, if you want to win me over to your argument, you'll need to. And you should want to, because I despise racists, and I want to help you fight them. But first you'll have to offer proof.

Who said that? I don't care what you believe. That's up to you. Apparently you hate racists (because you said you do), so I have to assume you acknowledge racism. Do you think racists will not avail themselves to avail themselves to every opportunity to play it out? I don't need a study, just a little common sense.

[Kelly the Dog]

So, you found an actual racist doing actual harm to people, working in government no less, who admitted to you that he didn't honor his obligation under the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, and didn't work to have him exposed and fired because "reasons"?

That's the real problem right there.

Meanwhile you're up in arms because I refuse to chase ghosts around on lack of evidence.

Now you're just being an ass. You going to turn your best friend in to his girlfriend or wife if you find out he's cheating on her or did a bunch of coke? Unemployment would be 30% if everyone turned in racists they knew. I'm a racist. After reading this thread I really don't like white people very much.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Who said that? I don't care what you believe. That's up to you. Apparently you hate racists (because you said you do), so I have to assume you acknowledge racism. Do you think racists will not avail themselves to avail themselves to every opportunity to play it out? I don't need a study, just a little common sense.

Of course there are actual racists and actual racism.

 

Case in point: Kelly the Dog's friend. Had that been me I wouldn't have rested until he was ruined, especially working in government.

 

That was an individual racist, and a very solvable problem, as are most individual instances of racism.

 

What you're asking me to believe is that racism is absurdly wide spread, deeply systemic, and is a major driving factor in the employment market.

Now you're just being an ass. You going to turn your best friend in to his girlfriend or wife if you find out he's cheating on her or did a bunch of coke? Unemployment would be 30% if everyone turned in racists they knew. I'm a racist. After reading this thread I really don't like white people very much.

Stop projecting.

 

And no, I'm not being an ass. You had the opportunity to help people and actually take down an actual racist who was doing real harm, and you did nothing, yet here you are casting stones about. That's on you.

[Kelly the Dog]

Of course there are actual racists and actual racism.

Case in point: Kelly the Dog's friend. Had that been me I wouldn't have rested until he was ruined, especially working in government.

That was an individual racist, and a very solvable problem, as are most individual instances of racism.

What you're asking me to believe is that racism is absurdly wide spread, deeply systemic, and is a major driving factor in the employment market.Stop projecting.

And no, I'm not being an ass. You had the opportunity to help people and actually take down an actual racist who was doing real harm, and you did nothing, yet here you are casting stones about. That's on you.

So you have turned in every racist or felon you know to their superiors? Or even ones you don't know at but knew they did a racist or felonious thing? Don't know what difference it would be whether you knew them or not.

[Augie]

Of course there are actual racists and actual racism.

Case in point: Kelly the Dog's friend. Had that been me I wouldn't have rested until he was ruined, especially working in government.

That was an individual racist, and a very solvable problem, as are most individual instances of racism.

What you're asking me to believe is that racism is absurdly wide spread, deeply systemic, and is a major driving factor in the employment market.Stop projecting.

And no, I'm not being an ass. You had the opportunity to help people and actually take down an actual racist who was doing real harm, and you did nothing, yet here you are casting stones about. That's on you.

I'm not asking you to believe anything. I just know it exists. You suggest it has to be "absurdly wide spread and a major driving factor in the employment market". That requires drawing a line defining what is acceptable, and what is too much. I say ANY is too much, and it's probably more than you think (emphasis on probably, as you're evasive with what you actually think when it's convenient). Edited September 2, 2017 by Augie

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm not asking you to believe anything. I just know it exists. You suggest it has to be "absurdly wide spread and a major driving factor in the employment market". That requires drawing a line defining what is acceptable, and what is too much. I say ANY is too much, and it's probably more than you think (emphasis on probably, as you're evasive with what you actually think when it's convenient).

Augie, you and me are the real problem, not the racists, because we are not ratting them out to their bosses when we hear of it.

[TakeYouToTasker]

So you have turned in every racist or felon you know to their superiors? Or even ones you don't know at but knew they did a racist or felonious thing? Don't know what difference it would be whether you knew them or not.

I don't associate with racists because character is vitally important to me. If I had been in your shoes not only would I have reported him to his supervisor, but also to my representatives in government, and to the local news.

 

Because I'm actually interested in solving real problems of racism when they arise, because it's important.

Augie, you and me are the real problem, not the racists, because we are not ratting them out to their bosses when we hear of it.

You has the chance to make a meaningful difference, and you took a different path.

 

That's on you.

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't associate with racists because character is vitally important to me. If I had been in your shoes not only would I have reported him to his supervisor, but also to my representatives in government, and to the local news.

Because I'm actually interested in solving real problems of racism when they arise, because it's important.

You has the chance to make a meaningful difference, and you took a different path.

That's on you.

How many times have you done that? Edited September 2, 2017 by Kelly the Dog

[Augie]

Augie, you and me are the real problem, not the racists, because we are not ratting them out to their bosses when we hear of it.

I'm DOOMED!

 

I had a buddy in HS who moved in across the street from Texas. Likeable enough kid named Chris who wanted to be called Tex. OK, no biggie. After a year or so I learned he had some friends from his HS (I went private) with whom he would go driving around downtown. With a board. Looking for black kids on bikes looking to whack. It made me SICK, but I had no video, no standing of any sort. We just went separate ways. Single dad raising him and I could have said siomething to him, but frankly I was afraid of him! He might have thought that was OK.

 

We do the best we can, and try to avoid getting on a high horse about anything.

[TakeYouToTasker]

I'm not asking you to believe anything. I just know it exists. You suggest it has to be "absurdly wide spread and a major driving factor in the employment market". That requires drawing a line defining what is acceptable, and what is too much. I say ANY is too much, and it's probably more than you think (emphasis on probably, as you're evasive with what you actually think when it's convenient).

No, you're asking me to believe exactly that.

 

And of course "any" is too much, but I refuse to chase ghosts.

 

As to me being evasive? Hardly. You just didn't like my answers because they require work.

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm DOOMED!

I had a buddy in HS who moved in across the street from Texas. Likeable enough kid named Chris who wanted to be called Tex. OK, no biggie. After a year or so I learned he had some friends from his HS (I went private) with whom he would go driving around downtown. With a board. Looking for black kids on bikes looking to whack. It made me SICK, but I had no video, no standing of any sort. We just went separate ways. Single dad raising him and I could have said siomething to him, but frankly I was afraid of him! He might have thought that was OK.

We do the best we can, and try to avoid getting on a high horse about anything.

You should have told Take it To Tasker about him. He would have turned him in, told the government and went on the local if not national news. We could probably stamp out a huge portion of racism if people just told TiTT about these people, Doesnt matter if it's heresay either (regardless of its veracity).

[TakeYouToTasker]

How many times have you done that?

I have never encountered anyone in government denying black Americans equal protection under the law because they were black, as you did.

 

Do you think that fact somehow mitigates your lack of action? Does it undo the harm you allowed a government actor to do to black Americans?

[Kelly the Dog]

I have never encountered anyone in government denying black Americans equal protection under the law because they were black, as you did.

Do you think that fact somehow mitigates your lack of action? Does it undo the harm you allowed a government actor to do to black Americans?

You have never encountered or seen or known anyone who worked for Government who said something or did something racist? I will PM you his name, you can go to the Government Andy go on the news now about it. There really isn't any difference between him telling me that and me relating it to you exactly how he said it. I will give you his number if you want to call and ask him. And even though he has recently retired the government and the local tv watchers really need to know this has and continues to go on. I know he is not the only one.