Koufax Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 So if they would trade him for a 2019 4th it means he likely didn't fit any meaningful role on the 2017 club. That isn't a big asset back. It may be an indictment of the original selection or a change in scheme, but what it likely is not is getting rid of a player who had meaningful value to us this year. My issue with it is that a 2019 4th is a very small amount of draft capital, and my concern on Ragland being valuable to KC since every win by them hurts our draft capital as well. I'm hopeful that this is part of the calculus and the Bills don't think that Ragland will impact the 2017 Chiefs by an actual entire victory anywhere, so won't change the value of their 2018 1st that we are getting, but in our dream scenario of them imploding, the less talent and depth they have the more likely that things go just wrong and we get the 12th pick and not the 26th pick. I'm all for a clean start as painful as it can feel, and hoping our coach and GM stick around long enough for it to not repeat in a few years as we have been doing for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Let's trade the entire team for draft picks in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024. That way, we finish 0-16, get 1st pick in 2018, and pay NO SALARY for this year. Great idea eh? That's a great idea CF! Let's call Beane , I mean Brady will surely be retired by then right? We will win the CAP bowl this year for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Well, all we gotta do is be patient with McBean and Derm for 3-4 more years and I'm sure we're gonna be really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 It can most certainly be worse than Rex/Whaley and for most of the last 17 years it has been. How have we as a fan base not learned this yet? No it can't those bozos were insufferable. The Pegulas spent the most guaranteed money in the league to field those teams. Whaley/Rex had plenty to work with. Rex was more interested in Dabo Sweeney than he was with 3-4 defense. Look at Whaley's draft is pathetic. John Miller could be third string behind Groy/Vlad!? The Ragland trade up was absurd. Unless the Pegula's aren't learning from their own mistakes things should gradually improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I agree with the poster that said the 2019 4th is a chip that will likely be packaged in a 2018 draft deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Doug as signed on for 7 years. He got 3 and then a 4 year extension. To match Rex's 5 year deal. How long of a contract you give someone is irrelevant if you can them early. Yes, but it is relevant in terms of establishing your confidence and expectations. It's so weird to me how everyone wants to piss on the decision makers. Being a good leader isn't just about making great decisions. It's also about recognizing and admitting bad decisions, and being able to move on from them quickly. Find me 12 people who can hire new personnel in most industries, and I'll find you 12 people who will admit to having made bad choices. The key is moving on from them, no matter how wrong you were. For some reason, when it comes to the Bills, this means nothing but another reason to piss on the team. So unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Well he could have lost Watkins for nothing and they might have cut Ragland and got nothing. I'll take the 2 and the 4. Conversely he could have taken the option year on Watkin's contract then franchise him the next year if he couldn't sign him. He could have also given Ragland a year to see what he can do and let him play on special teams until he gets his knee to 100%. Then you would have a superstar WR and a quality smart LB. I'll take not waiting another 5 years to compete for a play-off spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Nice so far Beane has turned two first round picks (Watkins) into one second round and a meh cb now a second round into a fourth.... great It is important to remember that today Beane did not turn a second into a fourth. He turned Reggie Ragland into a fourth. Whaley turned a second into Reggie Ragland, which clearly seems to be the place we lost value. If Ragland is/will be a decent and valuable player then today's trade is bad. If he is not/will not then today's trade is good. I'm disappointed the McDermott ended up thinking Ragland was that useless to our team, but better to pull the trigger and get something than to cut him or have him buried on the depth chart and not contributing. We know Ragland was not playing better than Brown in McDermott's eyes, so the question is what is more valuable, a 2019 4th (that can also be used to trade up in teh 2018 draft) or how much better Ragland is than Hodges as our backup MLB. But definitely a big indictment of the Ragland pick today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 My only comment is that, while Ragland wasn't a fit for McDs scheme, he was the only LB signed past next year, unless you consider Alexander a LB. So that means drafting LBs and/or resigning Brown. And if Brown plays well this year, he might out price himself form a FO who's says they want to build through the draft. They won't be spending big in FA. This leads me to believe they'll be using a high pick, probably next year, in replacing a Linebacker/s. Idk, hard to see the plan, if trading players you spent high draft picks on, getting lower picks for them and the spending high draft picks to replace them. All for scheme fit or because they didn't draft them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) Yes, but it is relevant in terms of establishing your confidence and expectations. It's so weird to me how everyone wants to piss on the decision makers. Being a good leader isn't just about making great decisions. It's also about recognizing and admitting bad decisions, and being able to move on from them quickly. Find me 12 people who can hire new personnel in most industries, and I'll find you 12 people who will admit to having made bad choices. The key is moving on from them, no matter how wrong you were. For some reason, when it comes to the Bills, this means nothing but another reason to piss on the team. So unrealistic. I'll ignore the bolded, because it's not germane. We all want to give the Pegula's the chance to "get it right." But it's kinda ironic that you think giving someone a contract extension, not just the Bills, but anyone in the NFL establishes confidence. But we will take a look at the Bills. Rex Ryan was given 5 years, which you'd argue established confidence. He was canned after two years. The next guy getting a 5 year deal may say, "Hey, hold on, I don't think I really have 5 years." Doug Whaley was given a 4 year extension with 3 years already with the team. He was canned after one year. The next guy getting a 4 year extension, with 3 years accrued already may say, "Hey, hold on, I don't think I really have 4 more years. " Which brings me back to my point, that contracts and extensions don't establish as much confidence when you've demonstrated a history of disregarding your previous confidence when handing out those deals. This isn't about pissing on the decision makers. It's about conveying the very real repercussions of their mistakes. Besides, after a while, how fast you move away from bad moves becomes less and less important if you're moving on to another bad move. If the Pegulas get it right with these new guys, great. If they fire them 2 years into 5 year deals, we'll be having this discussion again. And probably looking at bringing in some old NFL corpse retreads to man our front office. Edited August 28, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Conversely he could have taken the option year on Watkin's contract then franchise him the next year if he couldn't sign him. He could have also given Ragland a year to see what he can do and let him play on special teams until he gets his knee to 100%. Then you would have a superstar WR and a quality smart LB. I'll take not waiting another 5 years to compete for a play-off spot Superstar WR? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Well, all we gotta do is be patient with McBean and Derm for 3-4 more years and I'm sure we're gonna be really good. Yeah sure, my guess is neither of them will see the 4th year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 It is important to remember that today Beane did not turn a second into a fourth. He turned Reggie Ragland into a fourth. Whaley turned a second into Reggie Ragland, which clearly seems to be the place we lost value. If Ragland is/will be a decent and valuable player then today's trade is bad. If he is not/will not then today's trade is good. I'm disappointed the McDermott ended up thinking Ragland was that useless to our team, but better to pull the trigger and get something than to cut him or have him buried on the depth chart and not contributing. We know Ragland was not playing better than Brown in McDermott's eyes, so the question is what is more valuable, a 2019 4th (that can also be used to trade up in teh 2018 draft) or how much better Ragland is than Hodges as our backup MLB. But definitely a big indictment of the Ragland pick today. Ragland is coming off a major knee injury but he is a talented, smart hard-working kid and trading time now is getting the least possible value. I would have kept him on the team and let him play special teams until his need was back 100% to see what he really has. Superstar WR? Yes Watkins will be a superstar in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 My only comment is that, while Ragland wasn't a fit for McDs scheme, he was the only LB signed past next year, unless you consider Alexander a LB. So that means drafting LBs and/or resigning Brown. And if Brown plays well this year, he might out price himself form a FO who's says they want to build through the draft. They won't be spending big in FA. This leads me to believe they'll be using a high pick, probably next year, in replacing a Linebacker/s. Idk, hard to see the plan, if trading players you spent high draft picks on, getting lower picks for them and the spending high draft picks to replace them. All for scheme fit or because they didn't draft them. This regime priortizes LBs and have ample cap room to re-sign Preston Brown if they want him. And if he plays well within the scheme and takes care of his business the way they want him to, seems likely they will hand him an extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) This regime priortizes LBs and have ample cap room to re-sign Preston Brown if they want him. And if he plays well within the scheme and takes care of his business the way they want him to, seems likely they will hand him an extension.Oh I'm not saying it's completely impossible, that they aren't able to resign Brown. Just that they've said they would rather build through the draft and if Brown demands too much money, I think they have no problem using a high pick to replace him. And I do realize they priotize LBs, I'm just not sure how smart that is considering how much the value of LBs in the NFL has fallen. Edited August 28, 2017 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 This regime priortizes LBs and have ample cap room to re-sign Preston Brown if they want him. And if he plays well within the scheme and takes care of his business the way they want him to, seems likely they will hand him an extension. Preston has been good in preseason. Wouldn't be surprised to see them lock him up if the play continues into the regular season. Rex handled him poorly, I think, and I'm glad to see him elevate his game again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 A fourth for a second rounder. Lol Yes, but, he is recovering from injury.....and who knows if he ever returns to form. So the discount is justified imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I still find it hard to believe that Ragland could have played Middle Linebacker for Alabama...and yet he could not crack the line up for an NFL team that has been going nowhere since almost before he was born! Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Oh I'm not saying it's completely impossible that they aren't able to resign Brown. And I do realize they priotize LBs, I'm just not sure how smart that is considering how much the value of LBs in the NFL has fallen. Can it not be a reasonable deal? ILB contracts aren't too pricey right now. Preston will likely never be a superstar, but he could be on that second tier of reliable, above-average starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Nice so far Beane has turned two first round picks (Watkins) into one second round and a meh cb now a second round into a fourth.... great This isn't like shopping at a retail store. You can't return your broken product for a full refund. How hard is this to understand? Or is it just fashionable to be outraged? He's a 2nd round pick that blew out his knee. If that injury had happened in his senior year, he probably would have been a 6th or 7th round pick. In a best-case scenario he was going to play special teams for us this year, if he was even going to dress at all on Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts