THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - The Brandon Beane Era Begins

[Figster]

I'm not as worried as you because of the offense. Taylor's job is to read and throw. I think its less about communication than the previous offense. It's the receivers job to get to the spot and he has two for receivers, veterans, who can do that. Two guys with size and who catch in traffic. So I think the transition to new receivers will be easier than you say. I may be wrong.

A reply that gives me hope,

 

thanks buddy

[Crusher]

Crushed is difficult to respond to. He sounds rational but he's perpetually negative. If you notice, he said stockpiling picks to get a an doesn't work and being mediocre doesn't work. His solution is to tank, even though no team in the history of the league has done that. Well, maybe the Colts.

 

The packers have gotten TWO franchise QBs without tanking. The Psts got theirs withour tanking. Brees went in the second round. Crushers just good at being being negative.

 

And he accused me of being an optimist. My piece was optimistic only when I said I liked what they're doing. I have no idea if it will work. I think the season and the next seasons depend on what kind of HC McDermott is. My view is that he's 50-50 or worse to be any good.

And you, Shaw are the opposite...rational, but perpetually positive. And yes...you are good at being optimistic, just like I'm good at being negative. What you must take note of though is that the Bills have been a disappointment all this time while you have kept positive through all of the misery and disappointment, so when you think about it...I'm more justified in my position than yourself. Yes, optimism is generally a better trait to have, but this is football discussion, and I'm not interested in pumping sunshine after all these years, and frankly I don't have it in me to talk myself into it anymore. I don't begrudge you for it, though...it's cool that you maintain such positivity. When I feel it's warranted, or I see things coming together, I'll be right there with you cheering and supporting. I still do now, but not to the level I previously did.

 

As for you're examples...I could give you the list of franchise QB's that were top picks and became franchise QB's, but it would be much longer than the handful you presented.

 

I'm fine with this regime stockpiling picks...this is always a sound strategy. I don't, however wish to go about it by dumping a top flight receiver for lesser value...it was a bad move when we moved Lynch (I was against that, too), and this is even worse than that. Watkins was not a guy who got in trouble, and he has much more tread left in his tires than Lynch did at the time.

 

I have no idea if it will work either. Maybe it will, but there's no way I'll ever get behind the Watkins trade, and I will remain skeptical until I see the plan start to unfold and it looks promising.

[Shaw66]

And you, Shaw are the opposite...rational, but perpetually positive. And yes...you are good at being optimistic, just like I'm good at being negative. What you must take note of though is that the Bills have been a disappointment all this time while you have kept positive through all of the misery and disappointment, so when you think about it...I'm more justified in my position than yourself. Yes, optimism is generally a better trait to have, but this is football discussion, and I'm not interested in pumping sunshine after all these years, and frankly I don't have it in me to talk myself into it anymore. I don't begrudge you for it, though...it's cool that you maintain such positivity. When I feel it's warranted, or I see things coming together, I'll be right there with you cheering and supporting. I still do now, but not to the level I previously did.

 

As for you're examples...I could give you the list of franchise QB's that were top picks and became franchise QB's, but it would be much longer than the handful you presented.

 

I'm fine with this regime stockpiling picks...this is always a sound strategy. I don't, however wish to go about it by dumping a top flight receiver for lesser value...it was a bad move when we moved Lynch (I was against that, too), and this is even worse than that. Watkins was not a guy who got in trouble, and he has much more tread left in his tires than Lynch did at the time.

 

I have no idea if it will work either. Maybe it will, but there's no way I'll ever get behind the Watkins trade, and I will remain skeptical until I see the plan start to unfold and it looks promising.

I guess I'm an optimist. But what I try to do most of the time is understand why management would do what it did. So I look for reasons that seem logical.

 

That comes off as me sounding like I'm always supporting the team and their decisions. And I generally do support them, because as I think about why they might of done something, I come to understand the logic in their choice.

 

But I actually recognize that some decisions work, and some don't. In this case, for example, I'm not saying that unloading Watkins was without question a good decision. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But I can see why it fits what they're doing.

 

My views are changing about player personnel. I think the coach is the most important guy on the team, the QB is second, and practically no one else matters. In particular, as much as I love watching them, I think great receivers are pretty much unimportant. Julio Jones hasn't won, Fitzgerald hasn't won. Julian Edelman is far from being in the conversation about great receivers, but he wins. So I've come to think that wideouts are a distraction.

[Jay_Fixit]

SoulCrusher is just a negative guy. Unless it involves Women, money or talent.

[Crusher]

SoulCrusher is just a negative guy. Unless it involves Women, money or talent.

Ha! My man J is back in the building!

 

When it comes to the Bills, you're right...i've been mostly negative. In my defense...they have been awful for like forever.

 

Oh, well...i've got some hopsanity in the fridge waiting.

 

Peace

[rant_and_go]

Their plan is West Coast offense, which is over 30 years old, and Tampa-2, which is over 20 years old.

Gut the roster for that?

Eventually the plan will hit a wall. What then?

Plus you're not going to surprise anyone in the NFL today. They've seen it all. The Bills didn't loose at Seattle because of lack of scheme. They lost because of penalties and turnovers.

It really would be nice to see versatility from coaching. Roster dictates identity, and playbook is the history of football. Drop 5, Bills run first. Bring the blitz, Bills go to quick passing. Why limit yourself?

That's all they had to do during Rex and Marrone, and they would have been a very very good football team. Players play to the coaches strength. Coaches should coach to the players strength.

More importantly they need an owner to work the league. Bills still getting hit with ticky-tacky penalaties. Some guys are marked men, like Incognito. Push hard for changing the game to fit the Bills' strengths.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Eye roll.

 

Work hard, character, blah blah blah.

 

Jauron said the same things, so did Chan and Saint Doug.

 

Keep your eye on the Texans and Chiefs who might have leap frogged the Bills in the QB race.

 

High five for character, no talent though. Out working them has not worked since Jauron took over in 2006.

[Stank_Nasty]

I guess I'm an optimist. But what I try to do most of the time is understand why management would do what it did. So I look for reasons that seem logical.

 

That comes off as me sounding like I'm always supporting the team and their decisions. And I generally do support them, because as I think about why they might of done something, I come to understand the logic in their choice.

 

But I actually recognize that some decisions work, and some don't. In this case, for example, I'm not saying that unloading Watkins was without question a good decision. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But I can see why it fits what they're doing.

 

My views are changing about player personnel. I think the coach is the most important guy on the team, the QB is second, and practically no one else matters. In particular, as much as I love watching them, I think great receivers are pretty much unimportant. Julio Jones hasn't won, Fitzgerald hasn't won. Julian Edelman is far from being in the conversation about great receivers, but he wins. So I've come to think that wideouts are a distraction.

I may be picking nits here but I think you coulda picked way better examples for teams that havnt won with great wr's..... while these guys havnt won titles think back to some of the reasons for their teams success.... think back to any cards playoff win and then look at how fitz performed. the guy is unreal in big games. I don't think it can be debated that jones is one of the main reasons the falcons were in the title game. heck the guy even made an unreal catch in that superbowl that should have sealed up the game at the time. to use those 2 names as the argument for "unimportant" may not have been the best choice.

 

i'm not even disagreeing that wr's aren't all that important. but its pretty obvious those 2 have been MAJOR parts of any success those teams have had recently. each team was within minutes/seconds of a title becuz of them.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Stank_Nasty

[Jay_Fixit]

Ha! My man J is back in the building!

When it comes to the Bills, you're right...i've been mostly negative. In my defense...they have been awful for like forever.

Oh, well...i've got some hopsanity in the fridge waiting.

Peace

The love starts on this side of the table my friend.

[Beast]

The love starts on this side of the table my friend.

I knew I could find you in a Shaw thread.

[racketmaster]

Good write up. I would caution not to make too many conclusions about this HC and GM yet. It is very early in the process and I don't think we have had enough time to fully see how they like to operate. For example, we traded down with KC for extra picks (like patriots) but followed that up by giving up picks to trade up in 2nd and 3rd (not like patriots). But I do agree that they have a plan and vision for this team and it will definitely be more about "team" than individual talent.

 

I like the Darby trade but the Watkins trade left me wanting more. Maybe if we had picked up his 5th year option he would have been more appealing to teams in a trade because there would have been 2 years of acceptable salary before the mega dollars kicked in. We were trading Watkins from one of his lowest value points and that is usually not a good thing.

[Max Fischer]

Well done. I agree.

[Magox]

The Rockpile Review by Shaw66

 

The Brandon Beane Era Begins

 

Brandon Beane arrived in Buffalo three months ago. He was the new guy in town, replacing the last new guy, who replaced the new guy before him. Over time, each new guy made his mark on the team, and then he left. He made a mark, but he didnt win.

 

So Beane took over in May, and now its his turn to make his mark. He did a few deals, nothing very remarkable. It seemed as though wed have to wait until free agency and the draft in 2018 to get a sense of who this man is and what his team-building strategy looks like. Or so it seemed.

 

Less than a day after an ordinary and uneventful preseason opener, Beane reshaped the 2017 starting lineup and set himself up to build the team that he and Sean McDermott envision.

 

In separate deals, Beane traded Sammy Watkins and Ronald Darby and filled their spots in the lineup with quality starters. He also banked second- and third-round picks in the 2018 draft.

 

Yesterday, we could only speculate about how and what Beane and McDermott want to build. Today, its pretty clear.

 

1. They want to build through the draft. Beane confirmed it in his press conference. Why through the draft? Because drafted players cost less than free agents; acquiring less expensive players means more players under the cap with the talent and skills McDermott wants.

 

2. McDermott is confident that system trumps talent, that a lot of good players playing in the right system will beat great players whose talents force the team to adjust to them. He knows Watkins is better than Matthews and Darby is probably better than Gaines, but he also knows that Matthews and Gaines plus the two guys the Bills can draft next year are probably better, collectively, than Watkins and Darby.

 

3. They think they need a true franchise quarterback, not just a good quarterback. Taylor may be a good a quarterback, but he almost certainly isnt a franchise quarterback. Are they done with Taylor? Not necessarily. But the deals put the Bills in position to go after the QB they want if Taylor doesnt make major strides this season. And if Taylor has a good but not great season, dont be surprised if the Bills trade down again in 2018, stockpiling 2019 picks so that they can have one more year to look at Taylor.

 

4. Theyre students of the Belichick way. Belichick trades his top talent rather than pay it. He can afford to pay a GIllislee $4 million because he isnt paying anyone other than a QB $14 million. Beane and McDermott will take a good role player (Matthews) over a better, but costlier star (Watkins). Belichick stockpiles draft picks, often trading down. McDermott traded down in the 2017 draft, instead of trading up for a Watkins. In every practice McDermott puts his players into a particular game situation tells them the situation, tells them how to respond, puts them on the field to practice it. It was reported as innovative, but Belichick has been doing that for years.

 

5. The Pegulas have turned this team over to Beane and McDermott. The deals were bold moves, and Beane must have gone to the Pegulas, if not for their prior approval, at least as a courtesy. A GM that didnt have his owners confidence might have been told to cool it, to hold on to the guy who, at least on paper, was your biggest star. It seems the Pegulas response was its your decision.

 

6. Doug Whaleys approach to his job was to acquire and keep talent. He proudly announced that he had his top six, the highly paid guys who will lead the team: Taylor, Glenn, Watkins, McCoy, Dareus, Gilmore and Hughes). And in truth it wasnt a bad collection of players. But Whaley never articulated, and his acquisitions never revealed, a greater plan about how to build a team. He was hampered by having had a coach (Rex) and maybe another (Marrone), who also didnt have a well-defined strategy. The GMs and coaches, to one extent or another, seemed to think it was enough to get good players and coach em up. McDermott and Beane have a plan; they have an idea of who players fit the plan. (Sounds a bit like Belichick, doesnt it?) Gilmore didnt fit, not at that price (he may be a fit in Belichicks, but not McDermotts). Watkins didnt fit, not at that price. Hughes, Dareus, Glenn, Taylor, McCoy all have gotten the message.

 

7. Beane may be young, but hes in charge. He handled the press conference like a real pro. Straight, on-point answers to some questions, always positive about the players he decided to trade while emphasizing that in return he got players who can play, and flatly and directly declining to answer questions that reveal his future plans.

 

8. Beane may be young, but like Whaley, he isnt afraid. First time GM, one of the youngest in the league; a lot of guys in that position would have backed away from the table and just let 2017 play out with the hand he was dealt. Not Beane.

 

9. Weve heard a lot about how the Bills will be running a variant of the west coast offense, with an emphasis on possession passing and strong running. We saw a lot of short passes in the preseason opener. The acquisitions of Boldin and Matthews reinforce that view. Big targets, possession receivers. The trades scream that the Bills want to be effective, not flashy.

 

I hated to see Sammy go. Hes a special talent, and its so much fun to watch special talent perform for the team I root for. Itll be brutal to watch if he puts up a monster season this year, and he could.

 

But I like the moves. I like them because the team may be better this season (and in any case not terribly worse) than 2016, and I like them because the moves should make the team stronger going forward.

 

Most of all I like them because they say that the Bills, for the first time in a long time, have men in charge who have a plan, who are pursuing that plan every day, and who wont be distracted froam the goal. They have men in charge who have the full support, emotional and financial, of the owners. I like that.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full days hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

Why didnt I read this post earlier?

Very nice write-up

[Magox]

It's a bunch of excuses and apologies. There was NO PLAN. THERE IS NO PLAN. Did he articulate a PLAN yesterday? NO! He said he wasn't planning to trade them! but people approached! He's an opportunist, without a plan.

This is the response you'd expect from someone who'd start a thread called "Now that the Bills suck, what will you be watching this year"

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

This is the response you'd expect from someone who'd start a thread called "Now that the Bills suck, what will you be watching this year"

I bet he's putting on mascara and cutting himself as we speak

[oldmanfan]

I wonder if the reason they didn't get more in a trade is that other teams were also concerned about his injury status. Beane did say he'd been contacted by teams for several months.

[Helpmenow]

Hey Shaw how much time ya got for all of this to come to fruition

[Shaw66]

Good write up. I would caution not to make too many conclusions about this HC and GM yet. It is very early in the process and I don't think we have had enough time to fully see how they like to operate. For example, we traded down with KC for extra picks (like patriots) but followed that up by giving up picks to trade up in 2nd and 3rd (not like patriots). But I do agree that they have a plan and vision for this team and it will definitely be more about "team" than individual talent.

 

I like the Darby trade but the Watkins trade left me wanting more. Maybe if we had picked up his 5th year option he would have been more appealing to teams in a trade because there would have been 2 years of acceptable salary before the mega dollars kicked in. We were trading Watkins from one of his lowest value points and that is usually not a good thing.

Oh, I'm not close to annointing Beane and McD anything yet. I haven't seen much I don't like, but I've said all year that we won't know anything, especially about McD, until we see his teams play for a year or two.

 

As for Watkins, I guess I agree that in terms of the actual player, it wasn't the best time to trade him. Yes, if they'd picked up his option, they would have gotten more for him, but not that much more, because of his injury history. Two years of Watkins could mean 16 total games played, at which point he would have cost $10 million or more. I think he was attractive in part because his new team would only have to invest one year in him before deciding.

 

But from the bigger picture, now was the time. Yes, they might not have maximized value because of the option, but his value was only going to go down as the season progressed, and he'd be worth nothing in trade in February. I think he didn't fit McD's view of the offense, so they weren't going to resign him at the money he'd command in the open market. SO why not get what you can? It's the cost of retooling after you change coaches and GMs. When your coach and GM are succeeding and have been in place for 5 years, they aren't forced to make tough choices like this.

[Shaw66]

Hey Shaw how much time ya got for all of this to come to fruition

My view is that the GM has two important decisions to make - hire the coach and find a QB. Both are hard, so you can't expect him get it right on the first shot. I give the GM three mistakes - when he's blown the HC call once or twice and the QB choice once or twice, totalling three in all, he's gotta go.

 

In Beane's case, he chose McDermott in the sense that when he came here, he knew he'd be riding McD. If he didn't like McD as a coach, he wouldn't have taken the job. He'll make his first QB decision in a year, when he either signs Taylor to a big deal or drafts a qb. If McD and his first QB fail, I'd give him one more pick each. Either of those fails, he's out. I think in reality I'm talking five years. Continuity is important.

 

As for McD, if the Bills are bad this season, I'm very worried. Those guys could play 500 ball under Rex, and Rex was horrible. If McD's team is worse, as I said, I'm very worried. I give him one more year, and if things don't look a lot better, I might move him.

 

If, on the other hand, the Bills go 8-8 and look decent, I give him at least a couple more years. He's a new HC, and he's going to make mistakes this year.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

My view is that the GM has two important decisions to make - hire the coach and find a QB. Both are hard, so you can't expect him get it right on the first shot. I give the GM three mistakes - when he's blown the HC call once or twice and the QB choice once or twice, totalling three in all, he's gotta go.

 

In Beane's case, he chose McDermott in the sense that when he came here, he knew he'd be riding McD. If he didn't like McD as a coach, he wouldn't have taken the job. He'll make his first QB decision in a year, when he either signs Taylor to a big deal or drafts a qb. If McD and his first QB fail, I'd give him one more pick each. Either of those fails, he's out. I think in reality I'm talking five years. Continuity is important.

 

As for McD, if the Bills are bad this season, I'm very worried. Those guys could play 500 ball under Rex, and Rex was horrible. If McD's team is worse, as I said, I'm very worried. I give him one more year, and if things don't look a lot better, I might move him.

 

If, on the other hand, the Bills go 8-8 and look decent, I give him at least a couple more years. He's a new HC, and he's going to make mistakes this year.

He didn't hire the coach.

[KellyToughII]

 

 

But I like the moves. I like them because the team may be better this season (and in any case not terribly worse) than 2016, and I like them because the moves should make the team stronger going forward.

 

Most of all I like them because they say that the Bills, for the first time in a long time, have men in charge who have a plan, who are pursuing that plan every day, and who wont be distracted froam the goal. They have men in charge who have the full support, emotional and financial, of the owners. I like that.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full days hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

 

 

 

Amen brother

[Beast]

I bet he's putting on mascara and cutting himself as we speak

LMAO

 

A drama queen at the very least.

[BarleyNY]

I guess I'm an optimist. But what I try to do most of the time is understand why management would do what it did. So I look for reasons that seem logical.That comes off as me sounding like I'm always supporting the team and their decisions. And I generally do support them, because as I think about why they might of done something, I come to understand the logic in their choice.But I actually recognize that some decisions work, and some don't. In this case, for example, I'm not saying that unloading Watkins was without question a good decision. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. But I can see why it fits what they're doing.My views are changing about player personnel. I think the coach is the most important guy on the team, the QB is second, and practically no one else matters. In particular, as much as I love watching them, I think great receivers are pretty much unimportant. Julio Jones hasn't won, Fitzgerald hasn't won. Julian Edelman is far from being in the conversation about great receivers, but he wins. So I've come to think that wideouts are a distraction.

This might help with your optimism:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLDrafter/status/896100220341174272

 

I can't figure out how to post a pic of the chart, but it shows Ethan Young's MAVEM calculation for the trade. It's an "analytics" style tool he developed to value trades involving draft picks. In short, the Bills cleaned up on these trades, adding $17.85M in value. It's further proof that Beane and McD are using analytic tools to build this roster.

Edited August 13, 2017 by BarleyNY

[Beast]

I wonder if the reason they didn't get more in a trade is that other teams were also concerned about his injury status. Beane did say he'd been contacted by teams for several months.

I bet he's putting on mascara and cutting himself as we speak

LMAO

 

A drama queen at the very least.

My view is that the GM has two important decisions to make - hire the coach and find a QB. Both are hard, so you can't expect him get it right on the first shot. I give the GM three mistakes - when he's blown the HC call once or twice and the QB choice once or twice, totalling three in all, he's gotta go.In Beane's case, he chose McDermott in the sense that when he came here, he knew he'd be riding McD. If he didn't like McD as a coach, he wouldn't have taken the job. He'll make his first QB decision in a year, when he either signs Taylor to a big deal or drafts a qb. If McD and his first QB fail, I'd give him one more pick each. Either of those fails, he's out. I think in reality I'm talking five years. Continuity is important.As for McD, if the Bills are bad this season, I'm very worried. Those guys could play 500 ball under Rex, and Rex was horrible. If McD's team is worse, as I said, I'm very worried. I give him one more year, and if things don't look a lot better, I might move him.If, on the other hand, the Bills go 8-8 and look decent, I give him at least a couple more years. He's a new HC, and he's going to make mistakes this year.

Rex Ryan built the Bills the way he wanted them. I'm pretty sure McDermott's system is much different than Rex's. To expect McDermott to go .500 with a Rex Ryan built team may be asking a bit too much. I think it is more than obvious Beane and McDermott have their own idea as to what type of players THEY want, hence the hording of draft picks and player transactions.

 

I basically am giving McDermott a mulligan in 2017. I want to reserve judgement until he gets his own guys on this roster. One off-season, with the team up against the cap, certainly isn't enough to bring honest judgement down on him when he is hamstrung with players from a coach that employed a different system.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Binghamton Beast

[Shaw66]

This might help with your optimism:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLDrafter/status/896100220341174272

 

I can't figure out how to post a pic of the chart, but it shows Ethan Young's MAVEM calculation for the trade. It's an "analytics" style tool he developed to value trades involving draft picks. In short, the Bills cleaned up on these trades, adding $17.85M in value. It's further proof that Beane and McD are using analytic tools to build this roster.

I don't understand this AT ALL. I don't know how you put a dollar value on a player for purposes of evaluating the player and the trades. These analytics must not consider Watkins' POTENTIAL, which is what we all loved and hated to lose.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I don't understand this AT ALL. I don't know how you put a dollar value on a player for purposes of evaluating the player and the trades. These analytics must not consider Watkins' POTENTIAL, which is what we all loved and hated to lose.

Potential. Reminds me of Norman bates's mother:

 

"Get down there and run the hotel. What do you expect us to live on? Hope?"

[Shaw66]

LMAO

 

A drama queen at the very least. Rex Ryan built the Bills the way he wanted them. I'm pretty sure McDermott's system is much different than Rex's. To expect McDermott to go .500 with a Rex Ryan built team may be asking a bit too much. I think it is more than obvious Beane and McDermott have their own idea as to what type of players THEY want, hence the hording of draft picks and player transactions.

 

I basically am giving McDermott a mulligan in 2017. I want to reserve judgement until he gets his own guys on this roster. One off-season, with the team up against the cap, certainly isn't enough to bring honest judgement down on him when he is hamstrung with players from a coach that employed a different system.

I think that although some players fit a system better than others, football is football, and good players will play well in any system. Better in one system than another, but they still do fine. Look at Kyle Williams - he's played all kinds of systems, and yes, he's more valuable in some than others, but he was an unquestioned starter in every system. Dareus, too. The offensive line. The QB.

 

The running game is largely unchanged, and that's the offense's bread and butter.

 

6-10 is about as low as McD can go when I might be willing to say "Okay, first year, changing system, blah blah." 5-11 is lousy coaching.

 

6-10 I'll be really disappointed. Even 7-9. If McD is the right guy, he should go 8-8. Unless he gets hit with key injuries. If Boldin and Matthews go down, the offense will be in big trouble.

 

If the defense isn't better immediately, I'm going to be disappointed. Everyone says it's a simple, run-to-the-ball defense. There's talent all over the field.

[BarleyNY]

I don't understand this AT ALL. I don't know how you put a dollar value on a player for purposes of evaluating the player and the trades. These analytics must not consider Watkins' POTENTIAL, which is what we all loved and hated to lose.

Watkins' value takes a big hit due to him being in the last year of his contract. I'm not sure how Young valued him, but I'd bet it was a weighted average of his 3 seasons or at least the last two. Maybe even a linear regression that projects some improvement. I get fans' excitement over Watkins' potential - and that's okay for fans to do - but it's not how a GM should calculate a player's value. The best way is to assign probabilities to various realistic outcomes and take the weighted average. That factors in the risks of a certain player.

 

There's going to be a difficult decision teams are going to have to make on Watkins next offseason because of his mix of potential and risk. One GM is going to talk himself into paying Watkins based on the best case scenario. It'll probably be a GM or coach that is under pressure to win immediately and they'll take the risk because it'll either work out and help save their job or they won't be around when the mess needs to be cleaned up anyway.

[Jay_Fixit]

I knew I could find you in a Shaw thread.

We title and sign our threads over here too.

[Beast]

I think that although some players fit a system better than others, football is football, and good players will play well in any system. Better in one system than another, but they still do fine. Look at Kyle Williams - he's played all kinds of systems, and yes, he's more valuable in some than others, but he was an unquestioned starter in every system. Dareus, too. The offensive line. The QB.The running game is largely unchanged, and that's the offense's bread and butter.6-10 is about as low as McD can go when I might be willing to say "Okay, first year, changing system, blah blah." 5-11 is lousy coaching.6-10 I'll be really disappointed. Even 7-9. If McD is the right guy, he should go 8-8. Unless he gets hit with key injuries. If Boldin and Matthews go down, the offense will be in big trouble.If the defense isn't better immediately, I'm going to be disappointed. Everyone says it's a simple, run-to-the-ball defense. There's talent all over the field.

We have already heard, and even you are saying it in this thread, that players (Matthews) fit schemes better than others.

 

You can't have it both ways when traying to make a point.

 

It is one of the reasons why the BIlls wanted the kid from LA. He supposedly plays better zone than Darby.

 

It will take some time to get these players in here.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Binghamton Beast

[WideRightRevenge]

It's a bunch of excuses and apologies. There was NO PLAN. THERE IS NO PLAN. Did he articulate a PLAN yesterday? NO! He said he wasn't planning to trade them! but people approached! He's an opportunist, without a plan.

 

Please look at the Carolina Panthers record since 2003 and the fact that Beane was there for 19 years ... 5 division championships and 2 SB appearances ... THERE IS NO PLAN ... seems somewhat overdramatic ... so the Panthers lucked into their playoff slots without a plan ... Please

[Rubes]

Thanks, Shaw. Not everybody agrees with what you said, but I think everyone appreciates a well-thought-out argument like that.

[Shaw66]

We have already heard, and even you are saying it in this thread, that players (Matthews) fit schemes better than others.

You can't have it both ways when traying to make a point.

It is one of the reasons why the BIlls wanted the kid from LA. He supposedly plays better zone than Darby.

It will take some time to get these players in here.

Not sure what you mean. I did say that some players fit some schemes better than others. My point was that it makes a difference but not a huge difference. In the case of Watkins and Matthews my point was that the difference in talent is ls less critical because some of Taylor's talent is wasted in a possession passing scheme. So Matthews might turn out to be nearly as effective as Watkins in the new scheme.

[Coach Tuesday]

Not sure what you mean. I did say that some players fit some schemes better than others. My point was that it makes a difference but not a huge difference. In the case of Watkins and Matthews my point was that the difference in talent is ls less critical because some of Taylor's talent is wasted in a possession passing scheme. So Matthews might turn out to be nearly as effective as Watkins in the new scheme.

If their plan is a possession passing scheme than they're DOA. Tyrod is at his best playing a sandlot style with deep quick-strike options, which Sammy was perfect for. Trying to stuff this offense into a short-passing, tempo-based possession system is going to be a disaster. It'll be like what Rex did to the defense - negating strengths and requiring a full personnel rebuild.

 

This is so depressing.

[Beast]

If their plan is a possession passing scheme than they're DOA. Tyrod is at his best playing a sandlot style with deep quick-strike options, which Sammy was perfect for. Trying to stuff this offense into a short-passing, tempo-based possession system is going to be a disaster. It'll be like what Rex did to the defense - negating strengths and requiring a full personnel rebuild.

This is so depressing.

Not depressing at all.

 

Either Tyrod adapts and succeeds in this offense or we get a new QB that can.

 

Most of us are already expecting the latter, so no need for depression. And that was before the Watkins trade.

 

What would have been depressing is to see McDermott come in and attempt to emulate Rex Ryan's schemes becuase he had a roster full of Rex Ryan players.

 

The process has begun.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Binghamton Beast

[Coach Tuesday]

Not depressing at all.

 

Either Tyrod adapts and succeeds in this offense or we get a new QB that can.

 

Most of us are already expecting the latter, so no need for depression. And that was before the Watkins trade.

 

What would have been depressing is to see McDermott come in and attempt to emulate Rex Ryan's schemes becuase he had a roster full of Rex Ryan players.

 

The process has begun.

Why not keep what works????!

[Beast]

Not sure what you mean. I did say that some players fit some schemes better than others. My point was that it makes a difference but not a huge difference. In the case of Watkins and Matthews my point was that the difference in talent is ls less critical because some of Taylor's talent is wasted in a possession passing scheme. So Matthews might turn out to be nearly as effective as Watkins in the new scheme.

I think we are on the same page about which way the team is headed but we have different expectations for year one.

[Thunderstealer]

unfortunate the pegulas didn't rebuild right after getting the keys, but we'll just have wait I guess. 2017 isn't our year, might as well do in right.

[Magox]

Why not keep what works????!

What was working?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Why not keep what works????!

What works, exactly?