ROCBillsBeliever Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 So, there is a persistent and staunchly held belief that the Bills have been in "Cap Hell" or "Cap Jail" for infinity years... (yeah... that was intentionally bad grammar, reflective of the intelligence quotient of the aforementioned belief-holders) due to Whaley/Brandon/Terry/Fill-in-the-blank... There has been so much finger-pointing (in a variety of directions) that you would think we are the Kansas City Chiefs... Let's take a step back, Bills fans. The ONLY reason we have to be excited about the POTENTIAL to sign Jeremy Maclin is that THE CHIEFS (a.k.a. NOT THE BILLS) are in ACTUAL CAP JAIL / HELL / PRISON. They cut Maclin NOT because of injury or lack of production, but because they COULD NOT SIGN THEIR DRAFT CLASS, due to their gross cap mismanagement. The Chiefs aren't a laughingstock, like the Browns and Jets; in fact, posters on this very message board have looked up to the Chiefs as a well-run organization. In light of this, I have three serious questions, Bills "fans": Question #1: If the Chiefs are such a well-run organization, HOW did they let themselves get into the situation that led to Maclin's cut? Question #2: If the Bills are such a poorly run organization, HOW do we have nearly $16 million in cap space, JUST in time for them to sign Maclin? Question #3: If the Ravens--people say they're much better run than us lowly Bills--only have about $2 million in cap space, and are one of the main rivals in the Maclin race, HOW are they better-run than we are? Maybe we, as Bills fans, need to recognize that we aren't always a poorly run organization. Maybe we, as Bills fans, need to realize that other teams make foolish mistakes, AND we--as an organization--can capitalize on those mistakes, as in the case of Maclin. Maybe we, as Bills fans, should curtail the ragging on our front office / coaches / owners, and realize that NOT everything they do is THE WORST THING EVER... It's sunny outside... Have a beer on your porch and f%#^&$ SMILE for once! We aren't the worst organization ever, and we are working on signing a very good WR because OTHER TEAMS make mistakes, too! --END RANT-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Threaditis strikes again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Threaditis strikes again. Lots of people out there asked those three specific questions and made those three specific recommendations. Tons of people! They're considering damming the Niagra River because too many of those specific opinions are flowing over the falls... --CASE RESTED-- P.S. If you have a take on my points, I'm all ears. Edited June 7, 2017 by ROCBillsBeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'm not reading that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlottebillsfan2 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I dont think you can compare the Bills to the Chiefs and Ravens, Last I checked Ravens won 2 super bowls since the bills played a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinnearlysghost88 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Lots of people out there asked those three specific questions and made those three specific recommendations. Tons of people! They're considering damming the Niagra River because too many of those specific opinions are flowing over the falls... --CASE RESTED-- P.S. If you have a take on my points, I'm all ears. They'll jump all over you less if you use facts and sources, instead of opinions about teams being 'well run' and the Bills being in 'cap hell' for infinity years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROCBillsBeliever Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I dont think you can compare the Bills to the Chiefs and Ravens, Last I checked Ravens won 2 super bowls since the bills played a playoff game. I can compare cap situations, and the resulting player cuts that have led to our current potential to sign Jeremy Maclin. I'm talking about a specific situation Bills fans have bemoaned, in the light of irrefutable proof that other teams have made similar mistakes. That is my comparison. If you have a counterpoint, fire away. They'll jump all over you less if you use facts and sources, instead of opinions about teams being 'well run' and the Bills being in 'cap hell' for infinity years. Facts used: -Bills cap space: $16 mil -Chiefs cut Maclin because they could not afford to sign their draft class. -Ravens camp space: $2 mil I'm pretty sure I've heard enough opinions on this board about the Bills being mismanaged and in cap hell to know that the opinions are out there. I'm asking people to stop being so blindly negative about the Bills, when they don't even realize that other teams make similar, if not more egregious, management mistakes. Edited June 7, 2017 by ROCBillsBeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'm not reading that. the old TLDR post. beyond the OP being discussed (too long didn't read) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billz4life820 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 both of the teams you mentioned have not missed the playoffs for 17 straight seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoggyHog Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Maybe they don't have as much cap room because they have a better roster? Pretty sure that's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just to be clear, I am not one of those who think negative about every single thing that OBD those. But... In order to have 16m in Cap Space: 1. Lost Gilmore in FA 2. Cut A. Williams and Cory Graham (our starting S on paper at least) 3. Lost Robert Woods and Goodwin in FA (Our No. 2 and 3 WR) 4. Lost Brown in FA (Our starting LB) 5. We don´t have a Franchise caliber CONTRACT at QB 20M+ We can go on and on... the fact is that the Bills are not a well run organization because we change coaches every 2-3 years and we need to adapt again and agian and again. With a better FO the Bills would have had continuity and probably made the playoffs a couple of times already. As someone said before me, Ravens won 2 super bowls since the bills played a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just to be clear, I am not one of those who think negative about every single thing that OBD those. But... In order to have 16m in Cap Space: 1. Lost Gilmore in FA 2. Cut A. Williams and Cory Graham (our starting S on paper at least) 3. Lost Robert Woods and Goodwin in FA (Our No. 2 and 3 WR) 4. Lost Brown in FA (Our starting LB) 5. We don´t have a Franchise caliber CONTRACT at QB 20M+ We can go on and on... the fact is that the Bills are not a well run organization because we change coaches every 2-3 years and we need to adapt again and agian and again. With a better FO the Bills would have had continuity and probably made the playoffs a couple of times already. As someone said before me, Ravens won 2 super bowls since the bills played a playoff game. Why the mention of the Ravens? IMO they are one of the better run organizations in the league, from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Taking the questions in order: #1 - Since 2000, the Chiefs have been in the playoffs 6 years. Buffalo ZERO. Even the lowly Cleveland Browns had a playoff appearance during this span. I'm pretty sure that puts the Chiefs as better managed. By the way, please look at Overthecap.com for the current status versus the cap. The Chiefs without Maclin are sitting at $11.5m in available cap space. The Bills also without Maclin are only at $12.7m. Not as much difference as you would initimate.#2 - I'm not really sure where you got the $16m figure, but it's pretty clearly overstated. Regardless, there's 18 teams that have more cap space than the Bills. Among them, almost all have been in the playoffs in that time span. 16 years. So, more cap space + more playoff appearances = better. Teams with less cap space and more playoff appearances still better. #3 - Are you really bringing out the Ravens? 10 playoff appearances with 2 superbowl wins in 16 years. I don't give a crap what their cap situation is. That's a better organization, period.You obviously don't understand a LOT about the measure of success for an NFL team. Try reading the CBA and you'll understand that EVERY TEAM in the NFL over a period of 5 years has to spend 97.5% or more of the available cap. Other than managing year to year cap availability, teams either have to spend it or will eventually pay it as a penalty.If you bring in the concept of dead money (i.e. salary for players no longer on the roster that counts against the cap), the Bills are slightly below average this year at around $7.9m. I would still say that you have to compare that to wins and playoff appearances. Would I rather be the Chiefs and in the playoffs last year with $2m more dead money in 2017 or the Bills? Easy call for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Just to be clear, I am not one of those who think negative about every single thing that OBD those. But... In order to have 16m in Cap Space: 1. Lost Gilmore in FA 2. Cut A. Williams and Cory Graham (our starting S on paper at least) 3. Lost Robert Woods and Goodwin in FA (Our No. 2 and 3 WR) 4. Lost Brown in FA (Our starting LB) 5. We don´t have a Franchise caliber CONTRACT at QB 20M+ We can go on and on... the fact is that the Bills are not a well run organization because we change coaches every 2-3 years and we need to adapt again and agian and again. With a better FO the Bills would have had continuity and probably made the playoffs a couple of times already. As someone said before me, Ravens won 2 super bowls since the bills played a playoff game. Solid reply. #1 and #5 was all I was going to answer with. in hindsight after letting Gilmore go we look great on paper with no Franchise QB contract. Again, we let a 1st rd pick go only to waste another 1st rd pick on a CB due to cap trouble. the circle goes on and on. At least we landed a extra 1st rd pick next year. Edited June 7, 2017 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlottebillsfan2 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Posted Today, 10:52 AM Charlottebillsfan2, on 07 Jun 2017 - 10:45 AM, said: I dont think you can compare the Bills to the Chiefs and Ravens, Last I checked Ravens won 2 super bowls since the bills played a playoff game. I can compare cap situations, and the resulting player cuts that have led to our current potential to sign Jeremy Maclin. I'm talking about a specific situation Bills fans have bemoaned, in the light of irrefutable proof that other teams have made similar mistakes. That is my comparison. If you have a counterpoint, fire away. Who cares if you make mistakes if your winning. Back to my original point the Ravens have 2 suporbowl wins since our last playoff game. How can you compare the two? We let Gilmore go to the patriots and your talking about being able to sign Maclin because we freed up space. Edited June 7, 2017 by Charlottebillsfan2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 this thread sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) both of the teams you mentioned have not missed the playoffs for 17 straight seasonsWhich means any negative opinion applies to the Bills, whether they deserve it or not, because 17 years no playoffs. This is essentially the answer to the original post. Edited June 7, 2017 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoggyHog Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Which means any negative opinion applies to the Bills, whether they deserve it or not, because 17 years no playoffs. This is essentially the answer to the original post. Actually, this is the exact opposite of what the OP was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 The Bills already let their #1 corner, #2 WR, and #2 running back go because of the cap. How does that make Buffalo a team not near the cap again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 The Bills already let their #1 corner, #2 WR, and #2 running back go because of the cap. How does that make Buffalo a team not near the cap again? One could argue that. One could also argue overpaying for a player is also bad. Gilmore imo wasn't elite. Let the Pats overpay for him and anyone else they sign off of the Bills. As the saying goes - #2 RB's are a dime a dozen in the NFL and they no longer warrant higher pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 One could argue that. One could also argue overpaying for a player is also bad. Gilmore imo wasn't elite. Let the Pats overpay for him and anyone else they sign off of the Bills. As the saying goes - #2 RB's are a dime a dozen in the NFL and they no longer warrant higher pay. The OP was trying to say Buffalo is doing much better on the cap than KC. But didn't point out the players let go before KC cut Maclin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Why did we let Chris Hogan go? It wasn't cap issues. Just a bad decision by the management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 It's pretty simple really. The Bills thought they were really close to a solid playoff roster so they spent their funds to get up to the cap. I'm betting the same is/was true for the Chiefs. The Bills never got their before changing course and the Chiefs did get there but fell short of the Super Bowl. It's a vicious cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Currently the Bills are in a decent position. and looking forward to next season's ability to acquire players I don't care about 17 years anymore. I care about today and the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBaumer Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just to be clear, I am not one of those who think negative about every single thing that OBD those. But... In order to have 16m in Cap Space: 1. Lost Gilmore in FA 2. Cut A. Williams and Cory Graham (our starting S on paper at least) 3. Lost Robert Woods and Goodwin in FA (Our No. 2 and 3 WR) 4. Lost Brown in FA (Our starting LB) 5. We don´t have a Franchise caliber CONTRACT at QB 20M+ We can go on and on... the fact is that the Bills are not a well run organization because we change coaches every 2-3 years and we need to adapt again and agian and again. With a better FO the Bills would have had continuity and probably made the playoffs a couple of times already. As someone said before me, Ravens won 2 super bowls since the bills played a playoff game. Exactly, this team is still at the bottom of the league and to even get that much cap, starters were let go left and right. There is no way in hell this group is sniffing 8 wins this year but they will do everything in their power to scrape and claw to get there. Been there and done that 16 previous times..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 So, there is a persistent and staunchly held belief that the Bills have been in "Cap Hell" or "Cap Jail" for infinity years... (yeah... that was intentionally bad grammar, reflective of the intelligence quotient of the aforementioned belief-holders) due to Whaley/Brandon/Terry/Fill-in-the-blank... There has been so much finger-pointing (in a variety of directions) that you would think we are the Kansas City Chiefs... Let's take a step back, Bills fans. The ONLY reason we have to be excited about the POTENTIAL to sign Jeremy Maclin is that THE CHIEFS (a.k.a. NOT THE BILLS) are in ACTUAL CAP JAIL / HELL / PRISON. They cut Maclin NOT because of injury or lack of production, but because they COULD NOT SIGN THEIR DRAFT CLASS, due to their gross cap mismanagement. The Chiefs aren't a laughingstock, like the Browns and Jets; in fact, posters on this very message board have looked up to the Chiefs as a well-run organization. In light of this, I have three serious questions, Bills "fans": Question #1: If the Chiefs are such a well-run organization, HOW did they let themselves get into the situation that led to Maclin's cut? Question #2: If the Bills are such a poorly run organization, HOW do we have nearly $16 million in cap space, JUST in time for them to sign Maclin? Question #3: If the Ravens--people say they're much better run than us lowly Bills--only have about $2 million in cap space, and are one of the main rivals in the Maclin race, HOW are they better-run than we are? Maybe we, as Bills fans, need to recognize that we aren't always a poorly run organization. Maybe we, as Bills fans, need to realize that other teams make foolish mistakes, AND we--as an organization--can capitalize on those mistakes, as in the case of Maclin. Maybe we, as Bills fans, should curtail the ragging on our front office / coaches / owners, and realize that NOT everything they do is THE WORST THING EVER... It's sunny outside... Have a beer on your porch and f%#^&$ SMILE for once! We aren't the worst organization ever, and we are working on signing a very good WR because OTHER TEAMS make mistakes, too! --END RANT-- Cap issues fluctuate frequently. Sometimes 1-2 signings or cuts can completely change a team's position. Go back to the 2015 offseason, and the Bills were in a fantastic position with the salary cap and went on a spending spree. A year later, they pretty much just had the money to re-sign their own guys. This offseason they couldn't really afford to even do that. A few cuts and moves later, they are back into position to make a move for Jeremy Maclin. Truthfully, looking at salary cap space tells you nothing about how smart or stupid a team is. Nobody can afford to sign everyone. And the more good players a team drafts, the harder it will be to keep everyone under the salary cap. People just wanted to use the "cap hell" excuse as another strike against Doug Whaley and the Bills front office. To specifically answer your questions though: 1. The Chiefs have been a very well run team the last several years, and with a better QB may be true Super Bowl contenders. The team deemed Jeremy Maclin expendable because they managed to draft Tyreek Hill in the 5th Round, and they believe he can be a #1 WR for them. Finding gems in the late rounds would be one of the signs of a good front office. 2. The Bills lost quite a few free agents and cut others. They were unable to land several of their offseason targets. So they have some extra money to spend, and this would be a good use of it. 3. Proof the Ravens are "better run" is in the wins. Not in salary cap figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 So, there is a persistent and staunchly held belief that the Bills have been in "Cap Hell" or "Cap Jail" for infinity years... (yeah... that was intentionally bad grammar, reflective of the intelligence quotient of the aforementioned belief-holders) due to Whaley/Brandon/Terry/Fill-in-the-blank... There has been so much finger-pointing (in a variety of directions) that you would think we are the Kansas City Chiefs... Let's take a step back, Bills fans. The ONLY reason we have to be excited about the POTENTIAL to sign Jeremy Maclin is that THE CHIEFS (a.k.a. NOT THE BILLS) are in ACTUAL CAP JAIL / HELL / PRISON. They cut Maclin NOT because of injury or lack of production, but because they COULD NOT SIGN THEIR DRAFT CLASS, due to their gross cap mismanagement. The Chiefs aren't a laughingstock, like the Browns and Jets; in fact, posters on this very message board have looked up to the Chiefs as a well-run organization. In light of this, I have three serious questions, Bills "fans": Question #1: If the Chiefs are such a well-run organization, HOW did they let themselves get into the situation that led to Maclin's cut? Question #2: If the Bills are such a poorly run organization, HOW do we have nearly $16 million in cap space, JUST in time for them to sign Maclin? Question #3: If the Ravens--people say they're much better run than us lowly Bills--only have about $2 million in cap space, and are one of the main rivals in the Maclin race, HOW are they better-run than we are? Maybe we, as Bills fans, need to recognize that we aren't always a poorly run organization. Maybe we, as Bills fans, need to realize that other teams make foolish mistakes, AND we--as an organization--can capitalize on those mistakes, as in the case of Maclin. Maybe we, as Bills fans, should curtail the ragging on our front office / coaches / owners, and realize that NOT everything they do is THE WORST THING EVER... It's sunny outside... Have a beer on your porch and f%#^&$ SMILE for once! We aren't the worst organization ever, and we are working on signing a very good WR because OTHER TEAMS make mistakes, too! --END RANT-- Oh my............so much material here for me to work with and so little interest on my part to even jump on it. A half decently run franchise would have made it to the playoffs even just once over the past 17 years. And so, my work is finished here. Move along..........nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 So, there is a persistent and staunchly held belief that the Bills have been in "Cap Hell" or "Cap Jail" for infinity years... yeah, i pretty much stopped reading here. persistent and staunchly held belief that we have been in cap hell for infinity years? really?? you do know that before Terry Pegula, our owner was Ralph Wilson (rest his blessed soul), right? Terry has owned the team for three years, three, years. please tell who holds this, 'persistent and staunchly' belief that the bills have been in cap hell for 'infinity years'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 The OP was trying to say Buffalo is doing much better on the cap than KC. But didn't point out the players let go before KC cut Maclin. there's a separate thread on KC's cap. I think its pretty obvious that teams shouldn't overpay for players. Yes, it's done all the time, but how many of those deals work out? Does the name Mario ring a bell? Why did we let Chris Hogan go? It wasn't cap issues. Just a bad decision by the management. The thing about this is ..... any other QB than Brady.... only the shadow knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 [This is an automated response] The thread is no longer contributing positively to the community and therefore the discussion has been closed. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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