Superman00 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I guess it depends on what extremes constitute good character. Talented choir boys give you a tiny pool go pick from. We've gone down this road before can't remember which HC is was that wanted a team of good character guys that played hard and we had little talent on those teams. I want to say GW but that seems contradicting. Maybe someone else remembers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KermitMcDermott Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 you arguing just to argue? What else are message boards for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinxedBill1 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Want players with a track record of being available on sundays? Seems good to me so long as everyone in the building isn't required to have the same faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I agree with the OP somewhat in the sense that I really thought we could have had the steal of the draft with Reuben Foster at 27, I know the kid had some off the field problems but I also saw a sincere love and passion for football from the kid and he looked so humbled when he was finally drafted by the Niners. I think he could turn out to be the second coming of Patrick Willis. I do like the kid we drafted to play corner and I just hope that McD was dead set on taking him and wasn't afraid of taking a shot at Foster because of some "character concerns". It's too early to tell I just hope this isn't like the Marv Levy/Dick Jauron era all over again. Yeah this is pretty much my thoughts too. I'm very happy with White, don't get me wrong, was a huge need on top of being a great prospect. But Foster had top 5 talent and the potential to be that next great LB, so at 27 I really wanted him. But white, King, or Zay were my next three choices. Turns out we got 2 of those guys in White and Zay and loved that. But I couldn't help but think Foster was a no brained at 27 and wondered if we passed solely on off field stuff or if they just really wanted White. Still, this draft was an A from me, loved it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Yeah this is pretty much my thoughts too. I'm very happy with White, don't get me wrong, was a huge need on top of being a great prospect. But Foster had top 5 talent and the potential to be that next great LB, so at 27 I really wanted him. But white, King, or Zay were my next three choices. Turns out we got 2 of those guys in White and Zay and loved that. But I couldn't help but think Foster was a no brained at 27 and wondered if we passed solely on off field stuff or if they just really wanted White. Still, this draft was an A from me, loved it Foster had a shoulder injury, history of concussions. That isn't even counting the drug test and the not understanding a written playbook stuff. How many red flags do you need? There are things there that will take him off an NFL field at any given moment for weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Foster had a shoulder injury, history of concussions. That isn't even counting the drug test and the not understanding a written playbook stuff. How many red flags do you need? There are things there that will take him off an NFL field at any given moment for weeks. Yeah I get that, which is why he fell instead of potentially going top 10 he fell to 27. And at 27, for a player of his caliber, the risk to reward is balanced enough to where IMO he is an easy pick there for any team that doesn't already have a Patrick Willis/Luke Kuechly impact type player at LB. Again, I am 100% happy with White and I love our draft. I was just curious about what McD's thoughts are on Foster...the way McD has continuously talked about character makes me a bit nervous moving forward in terms of who we bring in here. We spent a long time avoiding talent and taking a bunch of great dads instead of great football players before. The one thing I really liked about the last few years is that we weren't afraid to take guys who had made mistakes but moved past them. For instance, there was a period that there was 0% chance we would ever draft a guy like Kiko Alonso, who going into that draft I told everyone was better than Dion who was going to go top 5. I was ecstatic on draft night when we did what we would have never done before and that was take Kiko who had a bad off field record, but had put some distance behind him on that to show he matured. Obviously Kiko not only worked out great for us, but we were even able to flip him into one of the best RB's in the NFL after he had an unfortunate injury. I just don't want to go back to over valuing character to a point we miss on talent. And right now, there is no real evidence of that, just basing it on the way he talks about the off field so much. And passing on Foster could very well be a risk factor with the injuries...could very well be they just like White better as a prospect...could have been that White was just a bigger need. But, Foster was such a rich talent that makes you wonder if it came down to off field or not. Again, just to be clear...I very much loved this draft and think it was one of the better ones we have had, at least recapping after a draft. How good or bad it really is will be determined when the pads go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 All I can say is that if I'm a tackle caught running around a field with no pants on, and then my team drafts a tackle, I'd be pretty worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 (edited) I agree here... While we don't want TOTAL douchebags on the roster, the Nobel Laureates are completely unnecessary... Bellichick does FINE with guys like Legarrete Blount... Carroll somehow made Marshawn work... Cowher made Roethlispervert work... This is a business... And we have a product to sell... Edited April 30, 2017 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 too bad he wasn't here before we drafted Dareus.....what a complete waste of $16 mil/yr I'll be curious if you feel the same way if Dareus plays up to his talent level this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 More than anything, this team has lacked leadership. I have no problem whatsoever with his approach. Players like White set a high bar, and it can be infectious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Anyone else a little concerned with McDermotts obsession with off the field personality? I get it we need good people for the community, smarty guys and guys that don't get suspended. But valedictorian and MBA graduates etc. I couldn't care less. We need football players. I like this draft but let's not limit ourselves when it comes to finding solid FOOTBALL players! We are building a winning football team not a community service Team. No I am not concerned. And as he said it's not even about the "high character", it's about availability. High character guys put the team in front of themselves and make decisions aimed at making sure they are available. Fits in with his draft style too where he said he likes guys that played for long stretches and don't have an injury history. They played "consistently" as he put it. Look at the problems that got Whaley fired... Dareus, Sammy, Harvin, Lawson, Ragland, etc... They were not available. By all accounts all great players or great prospects, but could not stay on the field. McD understands that the best ability is availability. All I can say is that if I'm a tackle caught running around a field with no pants on, and then my team drafts a tackle, I'd be pretty worried. He was just trying to win a Nobel prize. Dareus smoked one and told him they were handing out Nobels to people "out standing in their field". Semantics are hard for some guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskibreth Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Give me two talented football players and I'm choosing the one with the higher character 100% of the time over the dude who has behavioral issues and a history of poor decision making -even if his tape might look a little better. It's not about MBA's and Valedictorians. It's about high character which are exemplified by those achievements; dedication and commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Whatever caused Foster to drop was significant enough for many teams to pass on him. I don't know if it was solely character or if their might have been an injury concern as well. There were also some suggestions that he struggled learning the play book factor in that we have two starting caliber ILBs all ready, we didn't really have room for a 3rd unless he was a sure fire cant miss prospect. there is a balance to the high character/talent. talent needs to be factored in too. Look at EJ, you can't get better character than him. Smart, hard worker, really nice guy, did and said all the right things, yet the game was just too fast for him despite everything. Same with Tebow. High character is great, but high character isn't the most important thing. There are some things so bad that you do take a player off the board. but talent should come first, then character with that said, I love our picks. I question the trade up with that tackle pick, but other than that, great draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 This is a job for the players and if you are going to pay millions for them to work for you it's not crazy for expecting professional conduct. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Anyone else a little concerned with McDermotts obsession with off the field personality? I get it we need good people for the community, smarty guys and guys that don't get suspended. But valedictorian and MBA graduates etc. I couldn't care less. We need football players. I like this draft but let's not limit ourselves when it comes to finding solid FOOTBALL players! We are building a winning football team not a community service Team. we have 2 players that we counted on last year with weed problems........one of them is literally 1 year away from a full year vacation. We had a OL that was supposed to be our swing tackle running naked through a hayfield cowtipping No.....he is not overdoing it No...he is not overdoing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I'll be curious if you feel the same way if Dareus plays up to his talent level this season. that is a pretty big if Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 McDermott said in the draft interview there is a tolerance level that he is willing to work with as far as off the field trouble. You can never have enough character guys on the team. Once you get a room full of character you can then bring in the jar heads and hope you have enough positive reinforcement that he will buy in to what McDermott is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 If you are dumb enough to get caught doing stuff off the field then you aren't smart enough to be on the field. Do you think we had boy scouts on the team during the super bowl era? They were just smart and kept it under wraps so as to not embarrass the team and be a distraction. Put the team first and you can't go wrong Theres even a difference between playing back then and playing now. Today, everything you do is going to be caught on film and posted online for everyone to see within minutes, Back in the Bills SB era you could go out and do stupid things and stuff an the only people that would know whould be those who actually saw it and their friends whom they told the next day. The media and attention wasn't the huge distraction that it is today for negative news. Because of this the league has also put in new rules and punishments for being caught in these situations or for drug use. You really can't compare teams/situations back then to teams/situations today. I don't see a problem with sticking to guys without red flags or character issues. How many here are fine w/ Dareus missing games because he did something stupid again and is suspended? I would rather have good players who are going to be on the field playing the game, the really good players who play portions of the season around suspensions because they can't control themselves and stay out of trouble or away from drugs for a short period of their life....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Am I concerned about McDermott's obsession with character? Well, yes, a little. But I'm guessing he knows what he's doing. As others have said, the game moves too fast and the game is too complicated to spend much time at all dealing with problem guys. They get in the way and become distractions. You need guys who are mature, who know how to behave, and who are all-in with being as good as absolutely possible. They want guys with serious commitment. The real problem is with rookies. The guys you sign in free agency you sign because they've already demonstrated they have the necessary focus. You don't know that with the rookies; you don't know whether the money and bright lights will distract them. Many of the rookies don't have the necessary focus. The team is better off if you don't have many young guys who need to learn some important lessons, like Dareus or Marshawn. You want those guys AFTER they've learned the lessons. So I think McDermott's obsession is focused on the college prospects. In that case, a guy like White or Peterman is a huge plus when you draft him, because he's already shown that his priorities are set. You know that you're going to get 100% of the guy you want, you know he's going to apply himself and learn. When he's looking at a veteran free agent, I suspect McDermott cares less about MBAs and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills in oregon Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Anyone else a little concerned with McDermotts obsession with off the field personality? I get it we need good people for the community, smarty guys and guys that don't get suspended. But valedictorian and MBA graduates etc. I couldn't care less. We need football players. I like this draft but let's not limit ourselves when it comes to finding solid FOOTBALL players! We are building a winning football team not a community service Team. So what about the patriots everybody they draft are considered smart players you don't see any of them getting in trouble so why not put an emphasis on being smart on and off the field and staying out of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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