JaCrispy Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I heard this the other night, after the Bills accumulated a future 1st round pick and it really made me start to wonder. It has been stated by the team, several times, that they are going to build for the future while trying to win now. Well, on the surface this sounds fine. But the deeper you look, does it really make sense? Everyone knows the QB position is the life blood of a football organization. And I was so relieved that the Bills seem to have finally figured out its importance by not wasting a pick on what many consider to be a weaker QB class this year. However, if the goal is to draft a top QB in 2018 (maybe even the top QB in the draft) then you need a top pick in the draft. And if the QBs coming out next year are as good as people are saying, then there won't be many teams (if any at all) that will want to trade their top pick away. Therefore, in order to get one of those top picks the only solution would seem to be to have a poor record. So, the Bills have stated that they are going to try to win this year- trying to accumulate as many wins as possible. But, if the ultimate goal is a franchise QB in 2018 because they don't believe Taylor is their long term solution at the position, aren't they hurting their chances of achieving their ultimate goal? I'm reminded of two people in a canoe, paddling in opposite directions, and wondering why they aren't going anywhere. Am I simply missing something? Is the Bills current organizational philosophy a contradiction? Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Nobody makes a plan to tank the upcoming season in order to secure a higher draft pick in the following season. We have two first-rounders next year. They may trade one in order to move up, assuming they see a QB who's a sure thing. Either way, they have to have a solid team around the QB, no matter who he is, so they're building it. No contradictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I'm not really sure what you're saying. The Bills have too much talent to actually "plan" to have a bad record. You don't waste a whole season just to go after a certain prospect. This thread really makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud420 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) They are riding the fence. Like they have been years. You're absolutely right. If they were in a win now situation. They would of drafted Howard or Lattimore at 10...but they know they have limitations at QB, and want fire power for next year. I would of liked them to clean the roster of the highly payed vets (McCoy, Williams, Hughes). Its not tanking, it's rebuilding. One bright spot is if all QBs enter in '18...we will have a shot at Falk and Rudolph, but Darnold, Rosen and probably Allen are out the equation (will go top 5). Edited April 29, 2017 by BuffaloBud420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Nobody makes a plan to tank the upcoming season in order to secure a higher draft pick in the following season. We have two first-rounders next year. They may trade one in order to move up, assuming they see a QB who's a sure thing. Either way, they have to have a solid team around the QB, no matter who he is, so they're building it. No contradictions. Paul DePodesta says hello. They are riding the fence. Like they have been years. You're absolutely right. If they were in a win now situation. They would of drafted Howard or Lattimore at 10...but they know they have limitations at QB, and want fire power for next year. I would of liked them to clean the roster of the highly payed vets (McCoy, Williams, Hughes). Its not tanking, it's rebuilding. One bright spot is if all QBs enter in '18...we will have a shot at Falk and Rudolph, but Darnold, Rosen and probably Allen are out the equation (will go top 5). I asked this in another thread: name the team that has built a sustained 3-4 year playoff run WITHOUT having (at a minimum) at least a 5-11 season in the two previous seasons. I mean, there may be one out there (Seattle? If so, that's explained by a smart and lucky Russell Wilson pick), but it's awfully hard to think of one. And I don't think it's just the QB. I think the kind of clean break that comes with hitting bottom (dumping unproductive/overpaid players, moving higher in all rounds of the draft) is almost a necessity these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I heard this the other night, after the Bills accumulated a future 1st round pick and it really made me start to wonder. It has been stated by the team, several times, that they are going to build for the future while trying to win now. Well, on the surface this sounds fine. But the deeper you look, does it really make sense? Everyone knows the QB position is the life blood of a football organization. And I was so relieved that the Bills seem to have finally figured out its importance by not wasting a pick on what many consider to be a weaker QB class this year. However, if the goal is to draft a top QB in 2018 (maybe even the top QB in the draft) then you need a top pick in the draft. And if the QBs coming out next year are as good as people are saying, then there won't be many teams (if any at all) that will want to trade their top pick away. Therefore, in order to get one of those top picks the only solution would seem to be to have a poor record. So, the Bills have stated that they are going to try to win this year- trying to accumulate as many wins as possible. But, if the ultimate goal is a franchise QB in 2018 because they don't believe Taylor is their long term solution at the position, aren't they hurting their chances of achieving their ultimate goal? I'm reminded of two people in a canoe, paddling in opposite directions, and wondering why they aren't going anywhere. Am I simply missing something? Is the Bills current organizational philosophy a contradiction? Discuss I know this much.......they played free agency like they were trying to save money on future caps at the expense of this year. Then they drafted for current needs. That is the backwards method. Create needs.........then reach or trade-up to fill them in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBud420 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) Paul DePodesta says hello. I asked this in another thread: name the team that has built a sustained 3-4 year playoff run WITHOUT having (at a minimum) at least a 5-11 season in the two previous seasons. I mean, there may be one out there (Seattle? If so, that's explained by a smart and lucky Russell Wilson pick), but it's awfully hard to think of one. And I don't think it's just the QB. I think the kind of clean break that comes with hitting bottom (dumping unproductive/overpaid players, moving higher in all rounds of the draft) is almost a necessity these days. I agree. All the good young teams (Bucs, Raiders, Titans) hit the basement on the way to the attic Edited April 29, 2017 by BuffaloBud420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Teams can plan to tank. To me it's more like when some friends knew there were 8 possible questions on the exam, and only 3 were going to be asked, so they just studied 4 questions and gambled that at least 2 of them would be on the exam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Nobody makes a plan to tank the upcoming season in order to secure a higher draft pick in the following season. We have two first-rounders next year. They may trade one in order to move up, assuming they see a QB who's a sure thing. Either way, they have to have a solid team around the QB, no matter who he is, so they're building it. No contradictions. ......that voice of reason stuff will cause the Negative Nellies to stampede......two 1sts in 2018 is the first time since 2004 (of course, the Nellies will whine about where did Evans and Losman end up) and I'll take it....the abbreviated Wrecks Era was a disaster waiting to happen (AND IT DID) from Day 1......Pegula learned that hard nosed football people are necessary for success, not some overhyped blowhard like the old man was.....keep in mind that Whaley and McCoach have SIMILAR backgrounds, starting in scouting roles.....so they both know the vetting process of finding players that fit the HC's desired schemes on both sides of the ball....and I'd bet the final decision lies with the HC as HE is the guy responsible for "between the stripes".....DICKtatorial DonoHOLE with his control freak nature hired subordinating cheapAZZ HC's (Greggy @ 900K/yr) and force fed him HIS personnel choices...worked wonders right?...set this club back a decade and RW went into patchwork FO/Admin mode with people he trusted, regardless of whether they were fit for the job(s).....I see Whaley/McCoach as being a good fit so the "fire Whaley" Nellies will continue to be out in full bloom with badlty burned twin cheeks.....Aloe works kids..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Don't disagree with anything you stated, though not sure by next week if Whaley will be here or not. Either way, does appear McDermott is more calling the shots which may be what Whaley needs. He can find talent, but tends to make too many big moves that don't work out, so having someone to keep him in check may be all that's needed. Or wouldn't be shocked if he and everyone else in FO is gone either by May 15th. ......that voice of reason stuff will cause the Negative Nellies to stampede......two 1sts in 2018 is the first time since 2004 (of course, the Nellies will whine about where did Evans and Losman end up) and I'll take it....the abbreviated Wrecks Era was a disaster waiting to happen (AND IT DID) from Day 1......Pegula learned that hard nosed football people are necessary for success, not some overhyped blowhard like the old man was.....keep in mind that Whaley and McCoach have SIMILAR backgrounds, starting in scouting roles.....so they both know the vetting process of finding players that fit the HC's desired schemes on both sides of the ball....and I'd bet the final decision lies with the HC as HE is the guy responsible for "between the stripes".....DICKtatorial DonoHOLE with his control freak nature hired subordinating cheapAZZ HC's (Greggy @ 900K/yr) and force fed him HIS personnel choices...worked wonders right?...set this club back a decade and RW went into patchwork FO/Admin mode with people he trusted, regardless of whether they were fit for the job(s).....I see Whaley/McCoach as being a good fit so the "fire Whaley" Nellies will continue to be out in full bloom with badlty burned twin cheeks.....Aloe works kids..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I know this much.......they played free agency like they were trying to save money on future caps at the expense of this year. Then they drafted for current needs. That is the backwards method. Create needs.........then reach or trade-up to fill them in the draft. The Bills way since at least Donahoe was the GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I heard this the other night, after the Bills accumulated a future 1st round pick and it really made me start to wonder. It has been stated by the team, several times, that they are going to build for the future while trying to win now. Well, on the surface this sounds fine. But the deeper you look, does it really make sense? Everyone knows the QB position is the life blood of a football organization. And I was so relieved that the Bills seem to have finally figured out its importance by not wasting a pick on what many consider to be a weaker QB class this year. However, if the goal is to draft a top QB in 2018 (maybe even the top QB in the draft) then you need a top pick in the draft. And if the QBs coming out next year are as good as people are saying, then there won't be many teams (if any at all) that will want to trade their top pick away. Therefore, in order to get one of those top picks the only solution would seem to be to have a poor record. So, the Bills have stated that they are going to try to win this year- trying to accumulate as many wins as possible. But, if the ultimate goal is a franchise QB in 2018 because they don't believe Taylor is their long term solution at the position, aren't they hurting their chances of achieving their ultimate goal? I'm reminded of two people in a canoe, paddling in opposite directions, and wondering why they aren't going anywhere. Am I simply missing something? Is the Bills current organizational philosophy a contradiction? Discuss I wish that was true. Some teams do not make the QB position a priority. As for the goals? The Bills are run by Sean now. He wants to win as many games as he can. The future is far away and the draft shows a coach drafting for needs and trying to get plug and play guys. There is not a longer time horizon apparent than getting through next year. That's how most coaches think. It's not unique to Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I'm not really sure what you're saying. The Bills have too much talent to actually "plan" to have a bad record. You don't waste a whole season just to go after a certain prospect. This thread really makes no sense to me. does the name Andrew Luck ring a bell? The colts tanked that season so they could draft him no.1. it happens in sport. I'm not saying we should tank. Just saying it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) Don't disagree with anything you stated, though not sure by next week if Whaley will be here or not. Either way, does appear McDermott is more calling the shots which may be what Whaley needs. He can find talent, but tends to make too many big moves that don't work out, so having someone to keep him in check may be all that's needed. Or wouldn't be shocked if he and everyone else in FO is gone either by May 15th. ...take a deep breath and follow me for a second as a Roch-Cha-Cha brethren...........thnik about who is the face of the franchises league wide and who does the post game pressers......Giants Coughlin or Reese?...Keim or Arians?.....Pagano or Grigson?.....McCarthy or Thompson?....you get my drift.....if the HC is THE guy responsible for "between the stripes", don't you want him to be in charge?.....Whaley's job is to find players to fit McCoach's schemes and with BOTH having scouting backgrounds, I see this as FINALLY being a damn good FO/Admin fit..... Edited April 29, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Whats wrong with building up the team around the QB position so that way when you find your franchise guy you can put him in a winning situation with a good team around him? If you aren't committed to a QB why would you draft him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I agree. All the good young teams (Bucs, Raiders, Titans) hit the basement on the way to the attic They did... though not necessarily by design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Nobody makes a plan to tank the upcoming season in order to secure a higher draft pick in the following season. We have two first-rounders next year. They may trade one in order to move up, assuming they see a QB who's a sure thing. Either way, they have to have a solid team around the QB, no matter who he is, so they're building it. No contradictions. But many here want to do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Paul DePodesta says hello. If the Browns intentionally tanked a season, how would anyone notice? But many here want to do this By "nobody" I mean no NFL GM or coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 does the name Andrew Luck ring a bell? The colts tanked that season so they could draft him no.1. it happens in sport. I'm not saying we should tank. Just saying it happens. Wrong. They didn't plan to tank - they didn't purposefully injure Peyton Manning did they? They lucked into Manning getting hurt at an opportune time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Wrong. They didn't plan to tank - they didn't purposefully injure Peyton Manning did they? They lucked into Manning getting hurt at an opportune time. Teams tank all the time, are they too holy and righteous to you to allow this to be true? The Bills aren't tanking the rest of 2017 at this point in time. By week 14 they might be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Teams tank all the time, are they too holy and righteous to you to allow this to be true? The Bills aren't tanking the rest of 2017 at this point in time. By week 14 they might be... Are you talking about the NBA? Because I don't see too many NFL teams purposely tanking. You're gonna have to provide some examples since you seem so certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Are you talking about the NBA? Because I don't see too many NFL teams purposely tanking. You're gonna have to provide some examples since you seem so certain. Sure NFL teams don't do their best when they are in a bad situation. I guess I don't have psychic ESP voodoo powers to erase the way something looks real bad when a team is throwing it all away, maybe you can teach us how to discern. Are you honestly WATCHING games that horrible teams are playing that mean nothing to see if they are trying or not. How about this scenario with a team going nowhere... 1) Do you keep playing the vets and hope to squeak out a few cheap wins and maybe keep the coaching jobs? or 2) Play the kids and get them some experience knowing it's going to be a loss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 Sure NFL teams don't do their best when they are in a bad situation. I guess I don't have psychic ESP voodoo powers to erase the way something looks real bad when a team is throwing it all away, maybe you can teach us how to discern. Are you honestly WATCHING games that horrible teams are playing that mean nothing to see if they are trying or not. How about this scenario with a team going nowhere... 1) Do you keep playing the vets and hope to squeak out a few cheap wins and maybe keep the coaching jobs? or 2) Play the kids and get them some experience knowing it's going to be a loss... All you're talking about is players losing faith in systems and perhaps not giving full effort as losses pile up. That happens all the time. That's not designed tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 29, 2017 Author Share Posted April 29, 2017 I'm not really sure what you're saying. The Bills have too much talent to actually "plan" to have a bad record. You don't waste a whole season just to go after a certain prospect. This thread really makes no sense to me. Well, first of all, it's more of a question to fans, rather than a statement. In one of his press conferences, when asked about what made them want to trade down so far (and acquire a 1st round pick), McD, without being too specific, said they did their research...Sal C. took this to mean that they have also been paying attention to next years QB class and thought it might be stronger. While i support this wholeheartedly, I don't quite understand their reasoning of going all out this year when they are going to need a top pick next year to acquire a franchise QB. Even with the extra pick from trading down, if the QBs next year are going to be elite, why would anyone want to trade with us? They, themselves would just take an elite QB- like the Jets. So, basically, do the ideas of wanting to win now and wanting to get an elite QB next year contradict themselves? Hope this makes it a little clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) Well, first of all, it's more of a question to fans, rather than a statement. In one of his press conferences, when asked about what made them want to trade down so far (and acquire a 1st round pick), McD, without being too specific, said they did their research...Sal C. took this to mean that they have also been paying attention to next years QB class and thought it might be stronger. While i support this wholeheartedly, I don't quite understand their reasoning of going all out this year when they are going to need a top pick next year to acquire a franchise QB. Even with the extra pick from trading down, if the QBs next year are going to be elite, why would anyone want to trade with us? They, themselves would just take an elite QB- like the Jets. So, basically, do the ideas of wanting to win now and wanting to get an elite QB next year contradict themselves? Hope this makes it a little clearer. you feel you you have the sure thing? Trade it all, the future 1st rounder is always the best weapon in the arsenal. Tanking is just a messy way to be a professional sports team. you lose the players, perhaps permanently. Always always Always play to win Edited April 29, 2017 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted April 29, 2017 Share Posted April 29, 2017 I think the point is this.........if TT plays lights out this year and can prove that he is our future, then it's a major bonus for the team going forward, as the QB questions will be put to rest. However, if TT struggles during the season, then it's comforting for the FO office to know that they will have 2 first round picks for 2018 and can be a major player for a QB, if needed. You'd rather have options, than none. In years past, the Bills have handcuffed themselves in the drafts and through FA..........next year affords the organization some breathing room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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