Trump and Russia

[Deranged Rhino]

6 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

Stepping back from the details, why not welcome the investigation to clear the air?  When Mueller comes out and states he found no wrongdoing and the administration is vindicated, you all can climb up on your roof and crow about how right you were all along. 

 

If it were me under investigation and I knew I would be cleared if only Mueller could complete the investigation, I surely would want the investigation to go to completion so that I got my official exoneration. 

 

If you read the stuff I provided for you, you'd understand I'm of the mind that Mueller is not investigating Russian Collusion/obstruction/money laundering at all. He's being set up as the silver bullet, the only one who can clear Trump from this cloud in the minds of the MSM and left. 

 

Why isn't he investigating Russian collusion? Because it's a fiction. As we can now nearly conclusively prove in a court of law. It was a story invented by bad actors in the DOJ, FBI, USIC and 44's administration to cover up their prior abuses of the surveillance system. The goal was to rig the election, which would then assure none of their malfeasance was discovered let alone investigated. 

 

This is provable. 

8 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

On the other hand if I knew I was guilty and likely to be caught if the investigation continued, I would enlist disciples to distract, undermine credibility of investigators, and throw out a bunch of 'yeah, but whatabouts'.....like we see

 

That door swings both ways. If the conspirators knew they were guilty (which they are) and knew that they lost their cover with a new hostile POTUS in office, then wouldn't they enlist disciples to distract and undermine POTUS's credibility? 

 

The difference between your ramblings and mine? I have EVIDENCE. You have "feelings". 

 

That's why you lose.

Just now, keepthefaith said:

 

Who in elected office or affiliated with someone in elected office is calling for the Mueller investigation to stop? 

 

 Not a single person in the Trump administration. 

 

But details.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, keepthefaith said:

 

Who in elected office or affiliated with someone in elected office is calling for the Mueller investigation to stop? 

GOP lawmaker calls for Mueller to be fired in speech on House floor ...

thehill.com/.../359442-gop-lawmaker-calls-for-mueller-to-be-fired-on-house-floor

1.  

Nov 8, 2017 - MORE (R-Fla.) called for special counsel Robert Mueller to resign or be fired over his “indisputable conflicts of interest.”. ... “I join … in calling for Mr. Mueller’s resignation or his firing,” Gaetz continued. ... The Florida Republican’s speech and resolution follow the ...

 

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

If you read the stuff I provided for you, you'd understand I'm of the mind that Mueller is not investigating Russian Collusion/obstruction/money laundering at all. He's being set up as the silver bullet, the only one who can clear Trump from this cloud in the minds of the MSM and left. 

 

Why isn't he investigating Russian collusion? Because it's a fiction. As we can now nearly conclusively prove in a court of law. It was a story invented by bad actors in the DOJ, FBI, USIC and 44's administration to cover up their prior abuses of the surveillance system. The goal was to rig the election, which would then assure none of their malfeasance was discovered let alone investigated. 

 

This is provable. 

 

That door swings both ways. If the conspirators knew they were guilty (which they are) and knew that they lost their cover with a new hostile POTUS in office, then wouldn't they enlist disciples to distract and undermine POTUS's credibility? 

 

The difference between your ramblings and mine? I have EVIDENCE. You have "feelings". 

 

That's why you lose.

This is all so stupid its hard to believe anyone gives it a second look at all. Yet Taro T, Third Thing, GG and others lick it right up. It's all just garbage 

[Bob in Mich]

22 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

If you read the stuff I provided for you, you'd understand I'm of the mind that Mueller is not investigating Russian Collusion/obstruction/money laundering at all. He's being set up as the silver bullet, the only one who can clear Trump from this cloud in the minds of the MSM and left. 

 

Why isn't he investigating Russian collusion? Because it's a fiction. As we can now nearly conclusively prove in a court of law. It was a story invented by bad actors in the DOJ, FBI, USIC and 44's administration to cover up their prior abuses of the surveillance system. The goal was to rig the election, which would then assure none of their malfeasance was discovered let alone investigated. 

 

This is provable. 

 

That door swings both ways. If the conspirators knew they were guilty (which they are) and knew that they lost their cover with a new hostile POTUS in office, then wouldn't they enlist disciples to distract and undermine POTUS's credibility? 

 

The difference between your ramblings and mine? I have EVIDENCE. You have "feelings". 

 

That's why you lose.

 

 Not a single person in the Trump administration. 

 

But details.

 

I lose?  Funny.  I don't think the entire story has been told yet.

 

Why don't you answer any of the questions posed?  You just throw more crap at the wall like yesterday when the Strzok texts were the story.

 

Didn't Rob Goldstone set up the Trump Jr meeting?  Is he part of the trap Trump conspiracy? 

 

Why did everyone feel compelled to lie about the Trump tower meeting?

 

Why did the participants in that meeting need to evolve to the number we have today?  Why the lies?

 

Why did Papadopolous lie about his contacts with the Russians?

 

Why did Trump choose Flynn in spite of all the warnings?  Your explanation of why he 'had to lie to the FBI' was ludicrous so no need to repeat that.

 

Why all the forgetfulness about Russian contacts.  Surely there was some coordinated effort to conceal Russian contacts, why?  And, why not forgetfulness about France or Canada or Malaysia?  Hmm, always Russia.

 

I could go on for quite a while.  Try pointing me to your answers to those questions while I compile another list of questions that the Trump investigators need to answer.  Thanks for your help

 

Btw, just how many are involved in our theoretical conspiracy?  Seems to be hundreds.

 

 

[Doc Brown]

19 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

If you read the stuff I provided for you, you'd understand I'm of the mind that Mueller is not investigating Russian Collusion/obstruction/money laundering at all. He's being set up as the silver bullet, the only one who can clear Trump from this cloud in the minds of the MSM and left. 

I think this is where Mueller is going.  Ken Starr went from investigating Watergate to investigating sexual relations with Monica Lewinski.  When Starr expanded his investigation to Lewinski you had some Democrats in Congress saying he's crossed the line and he was acting like a political hit man.  Sound familiar?

 

We don't know what Mueller has, but it's highly unlikely there was any collusion and obstruction of justice accusations probably won't hold water.  It wouldn't shock me if Trump Jr., Kushner, and possibly even the president gets charged with money laundering.  I could be dead wrong of course, but that's the problem with a special counsel.  They're given too much free range.

[row_33]

Whitewater, not Watergate...

 

The special counsel should be a last resort that enters when there is something to pursue, not to come in with will o' the wisps looking for parking ticket violations for years on end...

 

 

 

[Bob in Mich]

44 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

As far as "whataboutism" that's exactly what you're engaging in.  In the face of mountains of evidence of what Greg is claiming, you're sitting there with no evidence at all saying "what about Russia?!?!?". 

 

 

 

This is the 'Trump and Russia' thread, is it not?

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

This is the 'Trump and Russia' thread, is it not?

 

there was nothing there under the rock with Trump

 

so on to the real stuff with the Clintons and Russia

 

 

[Bob in Mich]

8 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I think this is where Mueller is going.  Ken Starr went from investigating Watergate to investigating sexual relations with Monica Lewinski.  When Starr expanded his investigation to Lewinski you had some Democrats in Congress saying he's crossed the line and he was acting like a political hit man.  Sound familiar?

 

We don't know what Mueller has, but it's highly unlikely there was any collusion and obstruction of justice accusations probably won't hold water.  It wouldn't shock me if Trump Jr., Kushner, and possibly even the president gets charged with money laundering.  I could be dead wrong of course, but that's the problem with a special counsel.  They're given too much free range.

 

The election conspiracy, even if true, would be the most difficult of those 3 to prove.  The obstruction of justice is as clear as crystal at this point, imo.  Just use Trumps own words

 

The money laundering may be what catches Trump though, agreed.  I think his financial dealings need to be examined just because if you have someone in debt to another party, 'special favors' to that party may be part of the conspiracy.

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

there was nothing there under the rock with Trump

 

so on to the real stuff with the Clintons and Russia

 

 

 

How do you say 'too funny' in Russian?

[row_33]

Bob votes that in his opinion Trump has committed obstruction of justice just based on Trump's words.

 

I read today that Nietzsche was granted his doctorate without a theses, were you offered the same honours at same point?

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Anything yet?

 

 

[row_33]

17 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Anything yet?

 

 

 

Still waiting

 

I'm sure they'll let us know if anything turns up

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

29 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

The election conspiracy, even if true, would be the most difficult of those 3 to prove.  The obstruction of justice is as clear as crystal at this point, imo.  Just use Trumps own words

 

The money laundering may be what catches Trump though, agreed.  I think his financial dealings need to be examined just because if you have someone in debt to another party, 'special favors' to that party may be part of the conspiracy.

 

How do you say 'too funny' in Russian?

Good grief...

 

Obstruction of justice is a legal standard, not a political buzzword.  Nothing Donald Trump has done rises to that legal standard.  Legal experts all agree on this.  Further, if the President did obstruct justice with his own words as you contend, then the investigation would be over and successfully completed because they would have already have him on obstruction of justice.

[njbuff]

This thread should be titled.............

 

Hillary and Obama and Russia, not Trump and Russia.

 

 

[Doc Brown]

42 minutes ago, row_33 said:

Whitewater, not Watergate...

 

The special counsel should be a last resort that enters when there is something to pursue, not to come in with will o' the wisps looking for parking ticket violations for years on end...

 

 

 

Yeah.  My mistake.  Trump saying he fired Comey officially because he disapproved of the way he was treating the Clinton e-mail investigation and then going on a tv interview saying it was because of Russia gave us the bs Mueller investigation in the 1st place.  That's why if I were Trump's lawyers, I wouldn't let Trump within the same zip code of Mueller when it comes to meeting with him.

[row_33]

When the 1,500 indictments come down on them...

 

Just wait...

 

9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Yeah.  My mistake.  Trump saying he fired Comey officially because he disapproved of the way he was treating the Clinton e-mail investigation and then going on a tv interview saying it was because of Russia gave us the bs Mueller investigation in the 1st place.  That's why if I were Trump's lawyers, I wouldn't let Trump within the same zip code of Mueller when it comes to meeting with him.

 

Trump says at a meeting he might fire Mueller.

 

Then he changes his mind shortly thereafter on further reflection.

 

that should fill the news cycle demand for a few days in January 2018.

 

The big event happened in June 2017...

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by row_33

[Azalin]

30 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

  Further, if the President did obstruct justice with his own words as you contend, then the investigation would be over and successfully completed because they would have already have him on obstruction of justice.

 

This is what Gatorman calls obfuscating with facts and details.

 

[Nanker]

On 2/7/2018 at 10:24 AM, Bob in Mich said:

 

Not disingenuous in the least.  My hypothetical is a legitimate question.  It appears from what I read that many defending Trump don't want him caught even if they think he is guilty of conspiring.  They appear tickled to be in control and don't wish to upset that.

 

I will answer your question.  Please answer mine.

 

I can't answer for 'my side' but I can for myself.  If I found evidence of wrongdoing in an attempt to smear Trump, I would certainly come forward with the truth.  If Trump did nothing wrong, I don't want to convict him.

That's total bullshite. As I indicated - that might be what you and your ilk would do to cover up for B O and Hillary and their operatives. Most here are neutral WRT the investigation as it pertains to Russian "hacking" the election - which was the raison d'être for the Mueller investigation. But there has been zero evidence of collusion - except that as events and evidence have been released - by all accounts it appears that the DNC and Hillary's folks colluded with the FBI and the B O DOJ. 

I think most of us - including me - would not willingly become a party to a coverup no matter who was being investigated. And, I wouldn't have any problem with the outcome if Trump and any of his associates are found guilty of something. But make it something other than tax evasion that happened eight years ago. 

 

But this really is a witch hunt of major proportions and it is all because of a real coup d'état attempt by the Left and the FBI and DOJ. i.e., the deep state. 

That should worry all Americans.

 

On 2/7/2018 at 11:36 AM, garybusey said:

 

What you are doing is talking in circles. A circle is a shape. It looks like this.

 

 

And this is Gary Busey.

This is what a Gary Busey looks like.

 

[snafu]

3 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

Why are so many disciples so scared of letting the Mueller investigation play out?  If there is nothing to be found, let him waste some time to convince the entire country, not just his supporters, that there was no election conspiracy.  If the Mueller investigation is halted prematurely the wound will just fester. 

 

Looks like it HAS played out.  Just seems to be face-saving at this point.  To do that, Mueller will come up with some more charges against people that are not related to "collusion" (which isn't even a chargeable offense).  To answer your question -- which I think I did a few pages back -- yes, sure, let the farce come to a conclusion, but I think most want Mueller to see the handwriting on the wall and wrap it up.  His investigation shouldn't go on into perpetuity, or conclude when it is most politically expedient.

 

3 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

Look loon, if you want to have a discussion that is fine.  If you want to insult, fine too.

 

I will repeat this one more time.  investigate all the damn conspiracy theories you like. 

 

To claim that the Trump-Russia investigation being done by Mueller should be stopped  because of your unproven theory is idiotic.

 

Isn't Mueller's investigation based upon an unproven theory?

2 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

The election conspiracy, even if true, would be the most difficult of those 3 to prove.  The obstruction of justice is as clear as crystal at this point, imo.  Just use Trumps own words

 

The money laundering may be what catches Trump though, agreed.  I think his financial dealings need to be examined just because if you have someone in debt to another party, 'special favors' to that party may be part of the conspiracy.

 

How do you say 'too funny' in Russian?

 

What "justice" is Trump obstructing if there's no election conspiracy?

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

8 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

This is the 'Trump and Russia' thread, is it not?

So it's your contention that because someone started a thread nearly a year ago on the Two Bills Drive web forum, and titled that thread "Trump and Russia", that magic'd into existence some sort of legal standard which would invalidate actual evidence of criminality of the highest order by President Trump's political enemies, and confer permanent legitimacy on all future charges of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign?

 

 

Because it sounds like that's exactly what you're saying.

Edited February 9, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[Nanker]

8 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Looks like it HAS played out. Isn't Mueller's investigation based upon an unproven theory?

 

What "justice" is Trump obstructing if there's no election conspiracy?

 

Why, the people’s right to snoop into his personal and business affairs of course. They have “a right to know” and because they don’t know anything, it’s killing them.