Deranged Rhino Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 51 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Doesn't the line "communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign" kill the Russian collusion narrative? Is Mueller only focused now on "obstruction of justice" or possible money laundering unrelated to the initial collusion accusations? It absolutely does. But there are many in the media who have helped push this story, who are so knee deep in its origin, they are unable to cover this story honestly. Had they been willing to do so honestly, they wouldn't have missed the biggest scandal in political history unfolding before their eyes. Mueller has never been investigating what the media thought. I'm more confident in that assessment now than ever. Horowitz's report is due next month, as is a DHS report on election fraud (ordered by Trump, Sessions and Coats last year). Those are going to be the MOABs dropped after Mueller announces his probe is done. We got an unconfirmed glimpse of what's going to be in that DHS report the other day as a matter of fact... I remain skeptical about it, as the leaked charges in it are nothing short of explosive. This is not confirmed text, but I'm including it because the report is real and upcoming. I'm only including this text for verification purposes when the DHS report hits next month... we'll see then how real this leak was: Quote In an effort to preserve the integrity of all U.S. elections, as ordered by the President of the United States, after an extensive investigation in select counties (the 'sampling'), the DHS has concluded that while Russian entities (as outlined within Special Council Mueller's investigation were complicit in attempting to undermine the presidential election of 2016) had no direct impact or bearing on the outcome of the presidential election, nor were any U.S. person(s) knowingly part of such an attempt to sabotage as it relates to the Russian investigation, U.S. and other foreign entities (as further described within DHS[XXX]), acting outside of Russian agents, did attempt on numerous occasions, and were successful, in interfering with the presidential election of 2016, senate elections of [x,y,z], [x] elections, whereby several million of illegal, non-residental ballots (the "irregularities") were counted, while legal ballots were improperly tabulated and/or intentionally mishandled. We believe these actions were a coordinated attack against the democracy of our country. The DHS will be submitting a final report to the White House, DOJ, and other state and local agencies outlining our findings as early as March [ ], 2018. While this report only encompasses a sampling of twenty-two (22) counties across the U.S., it is strongly suggested, based on the evidence provided, that a mandated countrywide investigation begin under the recommended US50-EIC guidelines as set forth in Section VII of the final report. Furthermore, based on our immediate findings, we recommend the adoption of 8 (E)(F)(G)(H) be made immediately to combat sources and methods currently being deployed to... (rest left blank) Those paying attention understand what the above is referencing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 4 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: It absolutely does. But there are many in the media who have helped push this story, who are so knee deep in its origin, they are unable to cover this story honestly. Had they been willing to do so honestly, they wouldn't have missed the biggest scandal in political history unfolding before their eyes. Mueller has never been investigating what the media thought. I'm more confident in that assessment now than ever. Horowitz's report is due next month, as is a DHS report on election fraud (ordered by Trump, Sessions and Coats last year). Those are going to be the MOABs dropped after Mueller announces his probe is done. We got an unconfirmed glimpse of what's going to be in that DHS report the other day as a matter of fact... I remain skeptical about it, as the leaked charges in it are nothing short of explosive. This is not confirmed text, but I'm including it because the report is real and upcoming. I'm only including this text for verification purposes when the DHS report hits next month... we'll see then how real this leak was: Those paying attention understand what the above is referencing... If that turns out to be true then identification is going to be required to vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 There’s a thought, only legally eligible citizens with ID can vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Wonder what the final “legal” vote counts will be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The legal vote was concluded by acceptance of the parties back in November 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, row_33 said: There’s a thought, only legally eligible citizens with ID can vote. Proof that Republicans are trying to disenfranchise minorities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Dems have the long-dead voter list though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Boyst62 said: If that turns out to be true then identification is going to be required to vote And that would be the best case outcome. If they prove that illegal votes were tabulated in multiple races - you're potentially looking at the arrest and removal from office of sitting Senators and the detention of whomever helped/ordered/organized the operations. We all know who that would be. And if that goes public, then you're looking at a Lexington and Concord type moment in our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: And that would be the best case outcome. If they prove that illegal votes were tabulated in multiple races - you're potentially looking at the arrest and removal from office of sitting Senators and the detention of whomever helped/ordered/organized the operations. We all know who that would be. And if that goes public, then you're looking at a Lexington and Concord type moment in our history. i live in lexington and concord is like 30 minutes away. should i be worried?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: i live in lexington and concord is like 30 minutes away. should i be worried?!? I think you'll be okay, unless you've secretly been running for Senate and helping undermine federal elections without telling us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 OUCH. ..........................CBS Host To John Podesta: How Did Russians Know To Focus On Purple States, But Hillary Didn’t? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I think you'll be okay, unless you've secretly been running for Senate and helping undermine federal elections without telling us... i am trying to find the picture of me palpating a cow to show that i have been heavily involved. but seriously, are there ties to this with my area in your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: i am trying to find the picture of me palpating a cow to show that i have been heavily involved. but seriously, are there ties to this with my area in your opinion? New England, you knucklehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Moose and Squirrel was a more important and believable story line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 9 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Who would have guessed that would befall such a well educated and intelligent socialist like MM? Can’t be a socialist. When was the last time you saw a fat socialist? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 “He said he absolutely did not meddle in our election. … I really believe that when he tells me that, he means it,” Who said it, and who was he talking about? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 There has been a lot of disagreement over 'any evidence of collusion'. Has there been evidence of collusion/conspiracy presented yet? Well, depending how you define the 'evidence of collusion', yes and no. NO: The entire case for conspiracy or collusion between the Trump people and Russians has not yet been proven. I completely agree. Rod Rosenstein clearly stated this latest round of indictments did not show collusion between the indicted Russians and any (witting) members of the Trump team. So, clearly then from this perspective, no proven collusion yet. YES: Another perspective on proving collusion involves demonstrating the motivation and willingness to conspire along with showing that the deal actually took place. Investigators would need to, for each involved party, check off boxes for motivation, willingness, and eventually conspiratorial actions. So, if Mueller is systematically checking off these boxes for each party, to this point he has demonstrated (incomplete) evidence of a conspiracy. Some boxes have been checked but not all of them yet. So, from this perspective, some elements of a conspiracy have been demonstrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: There has been a lot of disagreement over 'any evidence of collusion'. Has there been evidence of collusion/conspiracy presented yet? Well, depending how you define the 'evidence of collusion', yes and no. NO: The entire case for conspiracy or collusion between the Trump people and Russians has not yet been proven. I completely agree. Rod Rosenstein clearly stated this latest round of indictments did not show collusion between the indicted Russians and any (witting) members of the Trump team. So, clearly then from this perspective, no proven collusion yet. YES: Another perspective on proving collusion involves demonstrating the motivation and willingness to conspire along with showing that the deal actually took place. Investigators would need to, for each involved party, check off boxes for motivation, willingness, and eventually conspiratorial actions. So, if Mueller is systematically checking off these boxes for each party, to this point he has demonstrated (incomplete) evidence of a conspiracy. Some boxes have been checked but not all of them yet. So, from this perspective, some elements of a conspiracy have been demonstrated. Please point out what specific boxes have been checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: There has been a lot of disagreement over 'any evidence of collusion'. Has there been evidence of collusion/conspiracy presented yet? Well, depending how you define the 'evidence of collusion', yes and no. NO: The entire case for conspiracy or collusion between the Trump people and Russians has not yet been proven. I completely agree. Rod Rosenstein clearly stated this latest round of indictments did not show collusion between the indicted Russians and any (witting) members of the Trump team. So, clearly then from this perspective, no proven collusion yet. YES: Another perspective on proving collusion involves demonstrating the motivation and willingness to conspire along with showing that the deal actually took place. Investigators would need to, for each involved party, check off boxes for motivation, willingness, and eventually conspiratorial actions. So, if Mueller is systematically checking off these boxes for each party, to this point he has demonstrated (incomplete) evidence of a conspiracy. Some boxes have been checked but not all of them yet. So, from this perspective, some elements of a conspiracy have been demonstrated. Mueller's very detailed and primary sourced documents in the indictment show everyone concerned that he has the tools and means to get to the bottom of this thing. And you are right, Donald Jr's emails show they were very willing ?(and able) to use any help from Russians. 8 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Please point out what specific boxes have been checked. How come you guys can't keep up with the story? Biggest story in American history of late and you can't follow along? Maybe try reading something besides "Hot Air or the Conservative Attic" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Please point out what specific boxes have been checked. Well, motivation? I assume you agree that there was motivation by both parties to get Trump elected. Rosenstein stated as much. Willingness? If you believe Don Jr's email trail, this has been shown by both parties...., recall 'I love it'. Actions? Well, some actions arguably have happened - but this is where the work continues. Hopefully the truth will be determined and demonstrated by the time Mueller finishes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Time will tell....if investigations aren't halted prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Well, motivation? I assume you agree that there was motivation by both parties to get Trump elected. Rosenstein stated as much. Willingness? If you believe Don Jr's email trail, this has been shown by both parties...., recall 'I love it'. Actions? Well, some actions arguably have happened - but this is where the work continues. Hopefully the truth will be determined and demonstrated by the time Mueller finishes. Gotcha. They wanted to win the election and Donald Trump went to a meeting that was supposed to be about one thing, and he walked out after the Russian side tried to make it about something else. Brennan, Clapper, Obama and others knew about Russia trying to wreak havoc in our election process way back in 2014 and did nothing about it. Furthermore, why would Russia want Trump to win? A Trump victory is the last thing Russia would have wanted. Think about that. All of your speculation doesn't take in the most important consideration which is energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Trump victory is the last thing Russia would have wanted. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, 3rdnlng said: Furthermore, why would Russia want Trump to win? A Trump victory is the last thing Russia would have wanted. Think about that. All of your speculation doesn't take in the most important consideration which is energy. It is hard to imagine a president that could be more divisive and supposedly the Russian goal was to promote divisions. How do you feel about the overall atmosphere in the US in the last year or so? I agree people were divided during the late Bush and Obama administrations but to me, it seems worse than ever. Look at Trump's cabinet picks. Some of those appear to be made by Putin himself in order to get the sanctions removed. Perhaps Putin has compromat on Tillerson, Flynn, Trump, Wilbur Ross, and even non cabinet member Kushner. Maybe troubling personal or financial information would allow Putin some level of leverage over all of these men and that is why he 'suggested them' to Trump. Most of the other cabinet selections were extremely divisive in this country. Trump repeatedly appointed folks that were basically opposed to the department they are now controlling. Downsizing....maybe but also could be argued that these agencies are being weakened ...just as Russia would favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I picture Tibs and the other retard rodeo clowns standing in the middle of the Thruway going "What's That?" as a semi barrels down on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, Wacka said: I picture Tibs and the other retard rodeo clowns standing in the middle of the Thruway going "What's That?" as a semi barrels down on them. Sounds more like you Trumpkins as our democracy gets rolled. "What's that?" Putin/Trump: "Don't worry about your democracy, that democracy elected Obama! It must go! Tumpkins: Yes, that's right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Wacka said: I picture Tibs and the other retard rodeo clowns standing in the middle of the Thruway going "What's That?" as a semi barrels down on them. retard rodeo clowns Epic insult. You must be proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 You're not trying very hard to unseat Tibs as king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just now, Wacka said: You're not trying very hard to unseat Tibs as king. Tibs is too grounded in stability to be dethroned by the latest scud missiles on here cant beat the king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: It is hard to imagine a president that could be more divisive and supposedly the Russian goal was to promote divisions. How do you feel about the overall atmosphere in the US in the last year or so? I agree people were divided during the late Bush and Obama administrations but to me, it seems worse than ever. Look at Trump's cabinet picks. Some of those appear to be made by Putin himself in order to get the sanctions removed. Perhaps Putin has compromat on Tillerson, Flynn, Trump, Wilbur Ross, and even non cabinet member Kushner. Maybe troubling personal or financial information would allow Putin some level of leverage over all of these men and that is why he 'suggested them' to Trump. Most of the other cabinet selections were extremely divisive in this country. Trump repeatedly appointed folks that were basically opposed to the department they are now controlling. Downsizing....maybe but also could be argued that these agencies are being weakened ...just as Russia would favor. Energy prices are an extremely important consideration for Russia. Trump campaigned on expanding our energy production. HRC on the other hand would have continued holding back on our energy production. Under no circumstances did Russia expect or want Trump to win. To answer your question, who is doing the dividing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wacka said: You're not trying very hard to unseat Tibs as king. Seriously - are you proud of yourself after you type something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) Are you proud for all the diarrhea you spout on PPP? Edited February 19, 2018 by Wacka 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Energy prices are an extremely important consideration for Russia. Trump campaigned on expanding our energy production. HRC on the other hand would have continued holding back on our energy production. Under no circumstances did Russia expect or want Trump to win. To answer your question, who is doing the dividing? So you get that alternative energy, conservation and fighting global warming are all things Putin hates, right? Does that get through to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So you get that alternative energy, conservation and fighting global warming are all things Putin hates, right? Does that get through to you? Usually you just make poor arguments. You've outdone your self with this babble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Energy prices are an extremely important consideration for Russia. Trump campaigned on expanding our energy production. HRC on the other hand would have continued holding back on our energy production. Under no circumstances did Russia expect or want Trump to win. To answer your question, who is doing the dividing? Energy prices are not set by US presidents, even Trump. The world oil market is not under the control of the president. I understand you are claiming a Trump election means more supply and lower prices for Russia. The problem with that is that if the supply is high and prices are low, US companies reduce production until the prices go up again. Companies operating in the US will bring oil/gas up when it is profitable. If not profitable, they won't. Trump may want more production but companies try to maximize their shareholders' value. I don't think the US president - Trump or Clinton - would have greatly impacted world markets for long 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Usually you just make poor arguments. You've outdone your self with this babble. You don't think alternative energy, conservation and fighting global warming worry energy producers? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Bob in Mich said: Energy prices are not set by US presidents, even Trump. The world oil market is not under the control of the president. I understand you are claiming a Trump election means more supply and lower prices for Russia. The problem with that is that if the supply is high and prices are low, US companies reduce production until the prices go up again. Companies operating in the US will bring oil/gas up when it is profitable. If not profitable, they won't. Trump may want more production but companies try to maximize their shareholders' value. I don't think the US president - Trump or Clinton - would have greatly impacted world markets for long With our ability to export oil and natural gas what we might lose in price we make up for in quantity. Make no mistake about it we can have a real affect on Russia's economy. It's called energy diplomacy and done with Rex Tillerson, former CEO of Exxon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 54 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Energy prices are not set by US presidents, even Trump. The world oil market is not under the control of the president. I understand you are claiming a Trump election means more supply and lower prices for Russia. The problem with that is that if the supply is high and prices are low, US companies reduce production until the prices go up again. Companies operating in the US will bring oil/gas up when it is profitable. If not profitable, they won't. Trump may want more production but companies try to maximize their shareholders' value. I don't think the US president - Trump or Clinton - would have greatly impacted world markets for long At what price point is production profitable for fracked oil? At what price is production profitable for Russian oil? What price above that does the Russian government require to keep their budget manageable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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