long suffering bills fan Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 To win a SB, you need an above-average coach and an above-average QB. TT is probably an average-at-best QB. Therefore, you need a QB. EJ is nowhere near average. This isn't a playoff team next year. Cut EJ, keep TT around as a one-year bridge, and either draft a QB that you're going to give significant tryout minutes to or trade for a backup and find out if he's the next big thing. If nothing is going anywhere after six games, tank like a mother and get a high pick for next year's crop. If you look at this season, if our defense had lived up to the expectations Rex created, We would have made the playoffs. With a stronger defense, we should have beaten the Seahawks, Steelers, Dolphins, and Raiders. If nothing else changes next year except an improved defense ( and obviously a new HC) we would have a strong chance to make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Agreed but they give up 233 yards per game. Tyrod had 111 with everyone healthy. My point is to not pretend like every loss was on the defense. The one thing missing in your takes which would make your argument resonate better is a better stat. You consistently use yards per game as a knock against Tyrod while discounting the fact that the Bills offense throws the ball less times than almost every single other team. In fact prior to the Miami game (where they opened up the passing game - and executed it at a high level by the way) the Bills were ranked dead last in the NFL in pass attempts. The team that throws the ball the least would be the most likely team to have the lowest yards per game. No? Go look at those stats. If you really want to make a logical argument - use his QB centric stats. Passing yards per game is correlated with number of pass attempts far more than you realize. His QB centric stats aren't stellar either, but they are a better representation of what you really had this year with Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Honestly it all depends on the coach we hire. If we get McDaniels, then try very hard for Jimmy G. (assuming Josh is high on him). If we go with an offensive guy with a track record of young QB development, take a guy like Watson or Mahomes and battle it out with Cardale with a smart vet backup (like Hasslebeck has been for Luck). If we go with a defensive guy and plan to stick with ball control offensively, roll the dice on a couple of vets like Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer in FA. TT's contract status makes his return untenable. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing TT back if it's a deal, but I can't imagine he'll be very thrilled with getting benched for this game, this move signals an end of his tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 The one thing missing in your takes which would make your argument resonate better is a better stat. You consistently use yards per game as a knock against Tyrod while discounting the fact that the Bills offense throws the ball less times than almost every single other team. In fact prior to the Miami game (where they opened up the passing game - and executed it at a high level by the way) the Bills were ranked dead last in the NFL in pass attempts. The team that throws the ball the least would be the most likely team to have the lowest yards per game. No? Go look at those stats. If you really want to make a logical argument - use his QB centric stats. Passing yards per game is correlated with number of pass attempts far more than you realize. His QB centric stats aren't stellar either, but they are a better representation of what you really had this year with Tyrod. Do you really think if the OC believed in Tyrod more as a passer, they would limit his passing attempts? It's like when had Losman and people would complain about the coaches holding him back. There's a reason for it. Tyrod is one of the worst passing starting qbs in the NFL. He does enough things to somewhat neutralize this. But again, do people want to pay $27 million for a qb who's own coaches limit the amount of times he passes? Honestly it all depends on the coach we hire. If we get McDaniels, then try very hard for Jimmy G. (assuming Josh is high on him). If we go with an offensive guy with a track record of young QB development, take a guy like Watson or Mahomes and battle it out with Cardale with a smart vet backup (like Hasslebeck has been for Luck). If we go with a defensive guy and plan to stick with ball control offensively, roll the dice on a couple of vets like Mike Glennon and Brian Hoyer in FA. TT's contract status makes his return untenable. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing TT back if it's a deal, but I can't imagine he'll be very thrilled with getting benched for this game, this move signals an end of his tenure. The McDaniel- Jimmy G thing is very interesting. It also would worry me that the Pats would trade him to us because they know his flaws. And I don't see Watson translating well to the NFL. I think his upside is Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Do you really think if the OC believed in Tyrod more as a passer, they would limit his passing attempts? It's like when had Losman and people would complain about the coaches holding him back. There's a reason for it. Tyrod is one of the worst passing starting qbs in the NFL. He does enough things to somewhat neutralize this. But again, do people want to pay $27 million for a qb who's own coaches limit the amount of times he passes?. Lynn came right out and said it in the press conference. He said it's all but impossible to teach a QB to do certain things when you start in the middle of the year. That you need to teach him how you want him to do things like throwing over the middle (if he wasn't already proficient at it) during the off season and practice it, and then implied that Roman didn't do that at all and Lynn would this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Do you really think if the OC believed in Tyrod more as a passer, they would limit his passing attempts? It's like when had Losman and people would complain about the coaches holding him back. There's a reason for it. Tyrod is one of the worst passing starting qbs in the NFL. He does enough things to somewhat neutralize this. But again, do people want to pay $27 million for a qb who's own coaches limit the amount of times he passes? You missed the entire point of what I tried to explain. Because you think you know why the Bills total passing yards are so low instead of looking at the evidence. The evidence is there. No Greg Roman designed offense has ever thrown the ball a lot. None ever in 6 years including his Superbowl team appearance. Is that not clear enough? They have never ever, ever done that ever no matter who the QB was. Even the San Francisco Superbowl team. If you are unimpressed with the total passing yards, then the root cause of your issue is with the offensive scheme. Because it was designed to do exactly that. Prior to that Miami game, the Bills lead the league in number of running attempts and were dead bottom in passing attempts. Every single one of Roman's offenses were similar in design. That is why they always had low passing yards and high running yards. It is the system. In the Miami game they opened things up and look what happened. How often would they play that well and how often would they stink - we don't know. A different offensive coordinator might show us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 You can but point remains Franchise QBs are found in the draft. Every single player in the NFL is found in the draft. What is the point you're trying to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 People seem to misunderstand Taylor's contract. If he's kept, he won't be paid $27 million per; that's just a roster bonus that is spread over and mixed into his overall salary for five years. His contract is middling for starting QBs. His cap hit averages slightly under $17 million per year over the next 4 seasons. Osweiler averages $20 million over the next three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Lynn came right out and said it in the press conference. He said it's all but impossible to teach a QB to do certain things when you start in the middle of the year. That you need to teach him how you want him to do things like throwing over the middle (if he wasn't already proficient at it) during the off season and practice it, and then implied that Roman didn't do that at all and Lynn would this off season. Lynn also implied that TT is uncomfortable with certain "route concepts" designed to exploit the middle seams even though we have a TE that can; even mentioned his height as a factor in TT's preference to get outside and throw outside. I agree totally with Lynn that the time to work on that aspect of his game is not during the season, but I'm not convinced TT can be made to feel comfortable with those route designs, regardless. A QB needs to use the ENTIRE field and until TT is able to do that consistently, teams will continue to "make him be a quarterback" as we saw all season. I can't remember as damning a condemnation by opposing players as that quote. It spoke volumes and it played out all year. People seem to misunderstand Taylor's contract. If he's kept, he won't be paid $27 million per; that's just a roster bonus that is spread over and mixed into his overall salary for five years. His contract is middling for starting QBs. His cap hit averages slightly under $17 million per year over the next 4 seasons. Osweiler averages $20 million over the next three. Very cap friendly for a starting QB. And also in line for what TT brings to the table talent wise, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Lynn also implied that TT is uncomfortable with certain "route concepts" designed to exploit the middle seams even though we have a TE that can; even mentioned his height as a factor in TT's preference to get outside and throw outside. I agree totally with Lynn that the time to work on that aspect of his game is not during the season, but I'm not convinced TT can be made to feel comfortable with those route designs, regardless. A QB needs to use the ENTIRE field and until TT is able to do that consistently, teams will continue to "make him be a quarterback" as we saw all season. I can't remember as damning a condemnation by opposing players as that quote. It spoke volumes and it played out all year. Very cap friendly for a starting QB. And also in line for what TT brings to the table talent wise, imo. I understand what you mean and I agree to some extent or even a large extent. Except to say that I got the impression that Lynn very much thought TT could do that if worked on in the off season or he wouldn't have brought it up and he all but said he wants to be here to do that. If he thought TT couldn't do that he wouldn't have said it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I understand what you mean and I agree to some extent or even a large extent. Except to say that I got the impression that Lynn very much thought TT could do that if worked on in the off season or he wouldn't have brought it up and he all but said he wants to be here to do that. If he thought TT couldn't do that he wouldn't have said it that way. And I think it speaks well of Lynn that he believes he can coach that aspect of TT's game. I'm just not convinced that, after 6 seasons in the league and two as a starter, that TT can evolve in that area. At this point, there shouldn't be any unfamiliarity or discomfort with any route concepts and their designed impacts on the defense. Which is a shame because Taylor clearly brings a set of unique tools to the position otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Romo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 The Draft. Thats were franchise QBs are found According to the pundits this is a weak draft for QB like the draft in which we got E.J. Romo Romo will not come to Buffalo. He is likely to go to Denver or SF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I think they will pick up the option too, but it depends on who they get for a coach and what his philosophy is. Maybe Tyrod won't fit his scheme in which case he will be let go or traded. If that coach wants to draft a guy and start him, then Bills fans better be prepared for at least a couple more years of suckitude. And at least a one year regression from where we are now. If you want to go to the playoffs next year, I doubt they will find a better shot at that with another QB other than Tyrod. Personally, I want to take a shot at the playoffs next year. I don't want to wait. I want playoffs every year. They will try to restructure/redo the contract maybe, but not sure how much leverage they will have with so many teams having so much cap space... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) They will try to restructure/redo the contract maybe, but not sure how much leverage they will have with so many teams having so much cap space... I don't know if that is going to happen. Here is why: The new coach will be the one who decides whether this team is going to marry itself to Tyrod for 3 years or move on from him immediately. They won't renegotiate anything without knowing who the coach is going to be first because he might not want Tyrod for the next 3 years (betting his coaching tenure on Tyrod) or he might not want Tyrod at all for his system. Let's suppose they do find a coach who wants Tyrod for a year, but wants the ability to cut him after one year. They would have to renegotiate Tyrod's contract. If they try to do that and leave themselves an out after one year so they don't have to be married to the guy, then Tyrod and his agent are likely to give the Bills the finger. Tyrod is going to want to be somewhere where his future as a starter is certain for at least a few years. If he gets that offer from another team for similar money - he will take that instead of renegotiating with the Bills. I bet the Bills will have to either pick up his option as it sits or else let him go entirely. But I could be wrong. I often am. Tyrod would have to be an extremely generous man who really badly wants to play IN BUFFALO, for him to be willing to renegotiate his contract again so that it leaves the team a chance at cutting him after a year. Right now, if they pick the option up on Tyrod, because of how the payments are scheduled and dead salary cap money, they could not afford to cut him for bare minimum 2 years, probably 3. They will be in a situation similar to where they have been with Dareus in terms of contract preventing a cut for years. Edited December 29, 2016 by PolishDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 HC McDaniels QB Jimmy G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 HC McDaniels QB Jimmy G It will be very telling if the Pats are willing to trade him to the Bills. They aren't sending him here if they think he's a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 @BR_DougFarrar Taylor's primary issue--timing and rhythm on short-to-intermediate passes-- is something Kubiak and his staff coach and scheme well. @TyDunne Tyler Dunne Retweeted Doug Farrar Tyrod Taylor in Denver could make sense. Broncos liked him before, but at cost for Elway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I find a particular board member's absence from this thread, well...interesting. The only way I can see moving on from TT this year is if the staff feels that Cardale Jones is ready to take the reins. Otherwise, we won't be in a position to draft the only QB in this draft who is worth a crap...Trubisky. Watson is the other guy I like, but I wouldn't take him earlier than the 3rd and I don't see him as better than TT right away. No better options in FA than TT, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 @BR_DougFarrar Taylor's primary issue--timing and rhythm on short-to-intermediate passes-- is something Kubiak and his staff coach and scheme well. @TyDunne Tyler Dunne Retweeted Doug Farrar Tyrod Taylor in Denver could make sense. Broncos liked him before, but at cost for Elway? If we let Tyrod walk bc we think paying him $$ that would make about the 20th highest paid QB is too much of a commitment, this org needs to fire Whaley. Seeing him go to Denver makes me want to vomit. I can stomach a new defensive scheme/coach. I think most fans are all in there. But A new DC, OC, HC, and QB? Good luck selling that one Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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