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Chef Jim Hall of Famer

Chef Jim

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1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

It's a globally interconnected economy.  The US is the worlds largest oil producer, but prices are lower, and more stable (both things which are better for American business and consumers) when the US is the largest producer in an even larger global market.

 

And it's not bad actors in the ME I'm talking about.  It's the Russias and Chinas of the world who will flow into any space we vacate.  While we occupy those spaces we can exert outsized influence on the world, and the world is better, and Americans are better off when we do.

 

Someone will fill any void we make, and they won't have our best interests in mind.

 

I understand it's a very global economy.  However if we took any goods or services that are exchanged between us and the ME away how badly would that truly change our economy here?  And as far as Russia and China swooping in?  This comment is part infectiousness and naivete but here goes.  Let them ***** have it!   I think dealing with that shithole will make them weaker than stronger.  

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GG
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Maybe this bridges the tactical and strategic(with liberal borrowing from past Homeland plots.)   Let's go back to the drone downing and attacks on the Saudi refineries, and the speculation

Buffalo_Gal
Buffalo_Gal
Koko78
Koko78

Cool, end all foreign aid to them as well.

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TakeYouToTasker Hall of Famer

TakeYouToTasker

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I understand it's a very global economy.  However if we took any goods or services that are exchanged between us and the ME away how badly would that truly change our economy here?  And as far as Russia and China swooping in?  This comment is part infectiousness and naivete but here goes.  Let them ***** have it!   I think dealing with that shithole will make them weaker than stronger.  

 

Do you believe Americans are better off and safer when the geo-political norms report to American interests, or when they report to Russian or Chinese interests?

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Chef Jim Hall of Famer

Chef Jim

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9 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

Do you believe Americans are better off and safer when the geo-political norms report to American interests, or when they report to Russian or Chinese interests?

 

I wouldn’t consider the ME anywhere near the geopolitical norms.  

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TakeYouToTasker Hall of Famer

TakeYouToTasker

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I wouldn’t consider the ME anywhere near the geopolitical norms.  

 

That's a non-answer.

 

You can't pretend the ME doesn't have geo-political norms, and that that region doesn't have a massive impact on the foreign policy of every single industrialized nation on the planet.  The world has gotten far too small for that, Jim; and there's no sound argument to be made for an isolationist approach to the region.  If we ignore problems they don't go away, but rather they fester.

 

Please note that I'm not making an argument for active, ongoing intervention in the region; I'm simply saying that our relationship with Israel is vital to us being able to exert our influence there as it's necessary.

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Chef Jim Hall of Famer

Chef Jim

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1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

That's a non-answer.

 

You can't pretend the ME doesn't have geo-political norms, and that that region doesn't have a massive impact on the foreign policy of every single industrialized nation on the planet.  The world has gotten far too small for that, Jim; and there's no sound argument to be made for an isolationist approach to the region.  If we ignore problems they don't go away, but rather they fester.

 

Please note that I'm not making an argument for active, ongoing intervention in the region; I'm simply saying that our relationship with Israel is vital to us being able to exert out influence there as it's necessary.

 

And an impact?  Yes.  A MASSIVE impact?  I think that's a bit over the top.  

 

Now you seem confused.  You are saying that on one had we should not have ongoing intervention in the region (we both agree on this)  but if we were not there the Chinese and Russians would swoop in and fill the void.  Which is it? 

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TakeYouToTasker Hall of Famer

TakeYouToTasker

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

And an impact?  Yes.  A MASSIVE impact?  I think that's a bit over the top.  

 

Now you seem confused.  You are saying that on one had we should not have ongoing intervention in the region (we both agree on this)  but if we were not there the Chinese and Russians would swoop in and fill the void.  Which is it? 

 

It's both, Jim.  America filled the void in the ME prior to the advent of neo-conservative foreign policy.  We should return to Realist policy in regards to the ME, which still includes retaining the strategic ability to project force as necessary, without resorting to projecting force continuously as policy.

 

Your attempt to frame this as an either/or scenario is inappropriate.

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Chef Jim Hall of Famer

Chef Jim

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32 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

It's both, Jim.  America filled the void in the ME prior to the advent of neo-conservative foreign policy.  We should return to Realist policy in regards to the ME, which still includes retaining the strategic ability to project force as necessary, without resorting to projecting force continuously as policy.

 

Your attempt to frame this as an either/or scenario is inappropriate.

 

So what you're saying is we do not have to have a direct military presence in the area (boots on the ground as they say) but the ability to let the region know if you ***** up we are a "stones throw" away.   And this will not create a vacuum.   If so fair enough.

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TakeYouToTasker Hall of Famer

TakeYouToTasker

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50 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

So what you're saying is we do not have to have a direct military presence in the area (boots on the ground as they say) but the ability to let the region know if you ***** up we are a "stones throw" away.   And this will not create a vacuum.   If so fair enough.

 

Exactly correct.

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TakeYouToTasker Hall of Famer

TakeYouToTasker

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5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

See kids.  This is how the adults do it.  I still think you're an *****.  I kid I kid.........

 

And to tell you the truth being an adult is not as much fun but we all knew that.  

 

Well, to be fair I am kind of an *****.

 

But I'm the loveable kind.

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Buffalo_Gal All Pro

Buffalo_Gal

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Another Saturday, another yellow vest protest:
 

"Yellow vest" protesters have gathered in Paris and other cities for a fifth consecutive Saturday of demonstrations.

About 69,000 police have been mobilised across France to prevent a repeat of the violence of previous weeks.

The movement, initially against a rise in fuel taxes, now addresses other issues, including education reforms.

</snip>

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Buffalo_Gal All Pro

Buffalo_Gal

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From the article: 
 

</snip>
 

Now senior officers have confirmed that some of the 14 armoured cars deployed by gendarmes contained ‘a radical device that was only to be used as a last resort’ against their own citizens.
 

A gun-like distributor on the vehicles’ turrets can spray the powder over 430,500 sq. ft. in ten seconds, Marianne magazine reports.
 

The high-density noxious product contains the same power as 200 tear gas grenades, and is designed to knock people out indiscriminately in an emergency.
 

A source at the Paris police prefecture said: ‘If a large crowd forced barriers through the security perimeter, then the powder would be used as a last resort in order to stop them.' 
 

</snip>

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boyst Hall of Famer

boyst

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On 12/17/2018 at 1:13 PM, Buffalo_Gal said:


From the article: 
 

</snip>
 

Now senior officers have confirmed that some of the 14 armoured cars deployed by gendarmes contained ‘a radical device that was only to be used as a last resort’ against their own citizens.
 

A gun-like distributor on the vehicles’ turrets can spray the powder over 430,500 sq. ft. in ten seconds, Marianne magazine reports.
 

The high-density noxious product contains the same power as 200 tear gas grenades, and is designed to knock people out indiscriminately in an emergency.
 

A source at the Paris police prefecture said: ‘If a large crowd forced barriers through the security perimeter, then the powder would be used as a last resort in order to stop them.' 
 

</snip>

Good thing France has a well armed militia to protect their rights!

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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

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2 hours ago - “Russian President Vladimir Putin praised President Trump's decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, describing the American presence ...
3 hours ago - US Syria pullout draws Kurdish condemnation and Putin's praise. 'Donald is right,' ...Trump plans to withdraw all 2,000 US troops from Syria.
1 hour ago - MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin praised President Trump's decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, describing the American ...
4 hours ago - Russian President Vladimir Putin applauded Donald Trump's decision to pull U.S. forces out of Syria even as he warned that American moves ...
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outsidethebox

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1 hour ago, Tiberius said:
2 hours ago - “Russian President Vladimir Putin praised President Trump's decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, describing the American presence ...
3 hours ago - US Syria pullout draws Kurdish condemnation and Putin's praise. 'Donald is right,' ...Trump plans to withdraw all 2,000 US troops from Syria.
1 hour ago - MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin praised President Trump's decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, describing the American ...
4 hours ago - Russian President Vladimir Putin applauded Donald Trump's decision to pull U.S. forces out of Syria even as he warned that American moves ...

OMG!!!!!

YOU FOUND THE SMOKING GUN!!!!

YOU'RE A REAL HERO TIBS!!!!

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TPS All Pro

TPS

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The Syria decision is interesting, and his preelection stance was one of a few things I liked about Trump. Why now though?

As most should know, I don't buy the Russiagate nonsense, so what is the motive? He's surrounded by the Neocons who have influenced regime change regardless of who is president, yet this appears to be a 180 to that policy (since it was the real reason for the US presence there).

 

Seems it must be related to the current Turkey-Kurd issue, and therefore possibly the Khashoggi murder? 

and if Trump is not being influenced by Bolton/Pompeo, then who? Do I need to re-read the Deep State or Q threads? ?

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B-Man Hall of Famer

B-Man

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VARIOUS TAKES: 

 

Trump Courts Catastrophe If He Leaves Syria.

 

If You Support Democracy and the Rule of Law, You Should Applaud Trump Getting the Hell Out of Syria.

 

 

Glen Reynolds: I don’t know what I think, though it’s amusing to see the people who cheered Obama’s disastrous withdrawal from Iraq dragging Trump here. And the two aren’t comparable: Iraq was in good enough shape in 2010 that Obama’s operation was bragging about it, while Syria is still a mess. America had a huge investment in Iraq, and had made a difference, which was squandered on withdrawal. We have no such investment in Syria, and it’s not clear how much of a difference we’ve made, other than killing a few hundred Russian “volunteers,” which was admirable for the message it sent but made no major difference on the ground.

 

When Obama wanted to send large numbers of troops to Syria, basically no one here at home wanted to do it (except John McCain), and then Putin talked him out of it, so Obama let Russia in. We still wound up with a couple of thousand there, but the mission and strategy are unclear. And the “moderate” Syrians seem to mostly be Al Qaeda. So it looks like a mess, and a fairly low-stakes mess at present compared to other problems; Syria seems more like a quagmire for Putin than a win. This is especially true as the Middle East matters less now that the U.S. is a net oil exporter and the world’s largest oil producer. (Have you hugged a fracker today?)

 

So I can’t get too excited. Am I missing something? 

 

UPDATE: Here’s what may be driving a US troop withdrawal from Syria. 

 

“A confrontation between the U.S and Turkey, officially NATO allies, would create a geopolitical crisis at the heart of the world’s most powerful military alliance.”

 

 

 

.

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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, TPS said:

The Syria decision is interesting, and his preelection stance was one of a few things I liked about Trump. Why now though?

As most should know, I don't buy the Russiagate nonsense, so what is the motive? He's surrounded by the Neocons who have influenced regime change regardless of who is president, yet this appears to be a 180 to that policy (since it was the real reason for the US presence there).

 

Seems it must be related to the current Turkey-Kurd issue, and therefore possibly the Khashoggi murder? 

and if Trump is not being influenced by Bolton/Pompeo, then who? Do I need to re-read the Deep State or Q threads? ?

It fits the pattern he has followed from the start. Dividing us from our friends and trading partners and doing things that please Putin.  

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Deranged Rhino Hall of Famer

Deranged Rhino

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, TPS said:

The Syria decision is interesting, and his preelection stance was one of a few things I liked about Trump. Why now though?

As most should know, I don't buy the Russiagate nonsense, so what is the motive? He's surrounded by the Neocons who have influenced regime change regardless of who is president, yet this appears to be a 180 to that policy (since it was the real reason for the US presence there).

 

Seems it must be related to the current Turkey-Kurd issue, and therefore possibly the Khashoggi murder? 

and if Trump is not being influenced by Bolton/Pompeo, then who? Do I need to re-read the Deep State or Q threads? ?

 

You might need to scroll back through the DS thread ;) 

 

The GCC and western forces have been fighting a very kinetic and different type of war for the past two years. The GCC is doing the heavy lifting in terms of personnel, the US and its allies are doing the heavy lifting logistically. They've been very effective for two years in gutting not just ISIS but Hezbollah and AQ in multiple theaters around the region. That will continue with or without 2,000 troops on the ground in Syria. 

 

This is a shot across the bow of the neocon/neolib establishment who remains in DC and the Pentagon - it's also (I believe) a sign that things have gone better than most realize with the above noted actions. 

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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

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Quote

 

Jake Sullivan smartly urges Democrats to seize stewardship of “American exceptionalism," which is rooted in the American creed:

Crucially, the Founders believed not just in individual rights but in the common good. They were not small-d democrats but rather small-r republicans. They embraced the notion of interdependence—that human beings have shared interests and need institutions to pursue those interests, and that liberty can be preserved only through such institutions. They believed that a good society is the product of active citizenship combined with responsible and virtuous leadership. And they viewed these truths as universal—the United States was not coming into existence to rise and fall as other powers had, but rather to transform the world. ...

A place for values in the conduct of foreign policy is built into the character of a country founded on ideas. It is also essential to our interests, because freer, less corrupt, more open societies are less likely to threaten America’s way of life. Moreover, the U.S. cannot expect to lead if it is offering only pragmatism, and not aspiration. It can’t necessarily outbid China, which has much more cash to spend abroad, but it can out-persuade and out-inspire.

 

 

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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Jake Sullivan has no business commenting on foreign policy ever again. And people who listen to them, deserve to be called idiots.

He's smarter than Trump. 

 

Really surprises me that people think a guy as totally corrupt as Trump wouldn't sell out our foreign policy to the dictators he wants to profit from. 

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Deranged Rhino Hall of Famer

Deranged Rhino

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Posted
Just now, Tiberius said:

He's smarter than Trump. 

 

Really surprises me that people think a guy as totally corrupt as Trump wouldn't sell out our foreign policy to the dictators he wants to profit from. 

 

This is what Jake's "smarts" got the people of Libya:

 

Open air slave markets. That's what he and the others in that administration hoped to accomplish - and they did just that.

 

***** Sullivan. He's not a smart man. He's a disease.

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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

This is what Jake's "smarts" got the people of Libya:

 

Open air slave markets. That's what he and the others in that administration hoped to accomplish - and they did just that.

 

***** Sullivan. He's not a smart man. He's a disease.

The whole country was a slave mart with Quadaffy in charge. 

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Tiberius Hall of Famer

Tiberius

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Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Incorrect.

From Wikkipedia 

 

Gaddafi's Libya was typically described by Western commentators as a police state,[447] and has also been characterized as authoritarian.[370] His administration has also been criticized by political opponents and groups like Amnesty International for the human rights abuses carried out by the country's security services. These abuses included the repression of dissent, public executions, and the arbitrary detention of hundreds of opponents, some of whom reported being tortured.[448] One of the most prominent examples of this was a massacre that took place in Abu Salim prison in June 1996; Human Rights Watch estimated that 1,270 prisoners were massacred.[449][450] Dissidents abroad were labelled "stray dogs"; they were publicly threatened with death and sometimes killed by government hit squads.[451]

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