26CornerBlitz Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Graham is saying not that "doing nit different" is "of itself" wrong. Again, he is saying the way Whaley assembled the roster is not consistent with the way winning teams are assembled. It's a very simple point he's making. Whaley's way isn't a winning formula. Whaley is no genius at bringing in FA;s. He has to because his draft picks don't stick to the roster. What? He's been in charge of three drafts with most of his picks still on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 What? He's been in charge of three drafts with most of his picks still on the roster. I guess you just have to read the article. Graham explains himself pretty well. It's worth reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Another bitter Buffalo News writer who has zero sources and never breaks a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Huh?? What a ridiculous take. Anyway, another home run by Graham. So you think the McCoy trade was bad? That's a ridiculous take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I guess you just have to read the article. Graham explains himself pretty well. It's worth reading. I read it, but if he's not making the call as the guy in charge of acquiring talent it's a flawed tabulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) Maybe the third time around Whaley will find a coach that he can work well with and who will show what a great GM he is. LaConfora's article read like an effort by Whaley and his allies to find a scapegoat. This article reads like one from Ryan's camp. They clearly can't continue together. Edited December 19, 2016 by Arkady Renko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Maybe the third time around Whaley will find a coach that he can work well with and who will show what a great GM he is. LaConfora's article read like an effort by Whaley and his allies to find a scapegoat. This article reads like one from Ryan's camp. They clearly can't continue together. How can't you see this as neither article having valid sources? Instead you think each "side" has agents out there planting statements? How are sooo many fans swallowing this **** sandwich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 Thanks, Tim! WAKE UP, PEGS! This is damning: The process predates Whaley, but he has maintained an old-school organizational philosophy of not scouting underclassmen until they declare for the draft in January. "I knew there used to be teams that did it that way," a longtime NFC scout told me. "I just thought they didn't exist anymore." "We start at the beginning of their junior years by identifying who might declare to come out," said another NFC personnel executive. "We used to wait, but there've been too many poor decisions made. You need ample time to research the players." The Bills' roster will remain in flux this offseason. Partly because they rely on more free agents than any other club, the Bills lead the NFL in players on expiring contracts. But most importantly, this should be what happens: "In three years, maybe he's not, and then I'll be sitting there, saying, 'Guys? Anybody got a job for me?' All in all when you take a step away from ledge and the kool-aid drinking, what mastermind who knows how to direct narrative and feed information that drives the hope and belief of the fans and sells the seats to fill the stadium. I mean how else do you market this? Who's hands could be masterfully stroking the narrative? You completely misread the article. Graham acknowledges that Whaley IS doing it differently---differently form the most successful teams in the NFL. That was the point of the article. You can't read that and conclude that Whaley and his method are successful. ^This Meh. Graham states that EJ Manuel was the first QB the Bills have ever drafted with their first pick........but that is misleading because they actually TRADED their first pick to move back in round 1 and get the #2 pick they used on Kiko....... and then used the later first round pick they got to select Manuel. So if it is possible to UNDERSTATE how little effort the Bills have put into finding a QB.....how ALL IN they have NOT been......Graham did it. In that time they've drafted like 30 RB/DB with their first pick. True story, bro. Graham really painted the picture as to how "All-in" with EJ they really are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) Graham is saying not that "doing nit different" is "of itself" wrong. Again, he is saying the way Whaley assembled the roster is not consistent with the way winning teams are assembled. It's a very simple point he's making. Whaley's way isn't a winning formula. Whaley is no genius at bringing in FA;s. He has to because his draft picks don't stick to the roster. I agree with you that Graham is saying Whaley's way isn't a winning formula. The way the article is stated, he's saying it isn't a winning formula for the simple fact that they have more free agents than draft picks. He says it could be because of the way they scout underclassmen, but he also shows that the Bills have drafted similar starter numbers as successful playoff teams, so he doesn't really come to a strong conclusion either way on the why. The "why" behind it is crucial to establishing causation, and he doesn't make a good argument either way. About the only thing he establishes is that Whaley isn't doing it the same way as winning teams, however he clearly thinks this is an issue because he's attempting to use this article to argue that Whaley is "building a roster full of holes". I think the strongest part of Tim Graham's article is the part on QBs and I absolutely agree with him on that point. Edited December 19, 2016 by Chilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Graham makes a classic mistake here. He makes the correlation that having a higher percentage of drafted players on your team CAUSES success. In policy study circles, they'd say he is ignoring a latent variable that is driving both high draft pick roster percentage and success. Teams with franchise QBs have to rely primarily on draft picks because the QB eats up so much cap room. Teams without a franchise QB salary, can afford to have a higher percentage of pro personal on their rosters.Having a top QB is the reason teams have long term success. It drives roster decisions as well. I read an article that said successful school children tended to have more books in their home than other children. Do you suppose the books really had anything to do with it? No, these children had smart/educated parents (who tend to read more) and that's what causes their success. Just filling a room in your house with books won't make your kid a better student. Just having your roster filled with draft picks won't consistently get you to the playoffs. Having a Franchise QB will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Tim Graham has grown tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Typical TBN bias garbage. Franchise QB's don't grow on trees like Timmy implies. Which is why other teams tend to pick QBs more often than the Bills do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Tim Graham has grown tedious. Is this a post from 2009? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 The premise was that the GM isn't strong because he built his roster differently than the way the other NFL teams have built their rosters. Whaley's strength is pro personnel scouting, it's not surprising his roster is built to favor pro personnel. This in and of itself isn't proof he's a bad or good GM, it's proof he builds his roster using his strength. #aintworking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 If what Graham says about waiting for juniors to declare before they are scouted is true, that is all you need to know. The organization is still in the dark ages. There is not ONE ounce of truth to this notion. Total lack of understanding of the scouting process. Graham should stick to feature articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan714 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 How come the Buffalo News cant see how good we are. I mean we've beaten 6 teams with losing records and the Jacoby Brissett led Pats. Teams like the Browns, Jags, 49ers, Rams......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Denver has highest number of drafted players starting, yet they needed a FA QB to win the SuperBowl and let the one they drafted walk away New England and Green Bay had two of the four greatest QB's of the era fall to them. There probably is more luck than science to the draft. One thing that bugs the hell out of me with Whaley is giving up picks to move up in the draft. He should be told the only way to move in the draft is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Graham really painted the picture as to how "All-in" with EJ they really are... Actually it was more like how unwilling they were to take chances at QB......using better organizations with better QB's in place as examples of how they handled things over the same period of time......despite LESS of a need. EJ basically constituted the only notable draft pick the Bills invested in a QB in Whaley's time in Buffalo. I think their "all-in" on EJ lasted less than 18 months after he was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/18/roster-data-shows-bills-gm-doug-whaley-not-building-roster-creating-nfls-biggest-hole/ Couldn't agree more, Whaley has been OK, which is not good enough. "A league-wide roster analysis shows perennial playoff teams have an average 61.1 percent more draft picks on their rosters than the Bills are carrying. The Bills have 22 of their own draft picks on the active roster and 31 overall when counting the practice squad and injured reserve. Those are the lowest figures in the league and substantially behind teams that have made the playoffs within the past five years." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkwoodus13 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Reading Tim Graham article made me sick to my stomach to be a bill fan. What is worst, is the fans that believe that rubbish. How quickly we forgot the state of the Bills when Buddy Nix took over. The organization was in such shambles no one wanted to coach this team .Granted the main reason for this was the health of Ralph Wilson. More importantly the roster was not talented. Looking back the only major talent on the team was Marshawn Lynch and all of buffalo wanted him out of town. Where the roster was then, compared to now, is remarkable. Graham's article talked about the amount of draft picks still on the current roster during the term Whaley and Nix has presided over the team. He compare the Bills roster to the lowly Browns who kept their entire draft class about 15 deep. Then on the other hand compared the bills to the Steeler, Packers and Bengals who have had the same head coach / GM combination forever. In the last six years the bills has move from Jauron to Gailey,to Marone and now Rayan. We all know how the NFL works, new coaches bring new schemes, idea and players. Under Chan Gaily we were going to play a 3/4 defense with George Edwards. then we switch to a 4/3 with Dave Wannstead. Then Marone came with Petine and switch back to a 3/4. Petine leaves, we go back to 4/3 wide nine with Swartz. Then Rex comes and we over hall everything to move back to a 3/4. There is no way we can look at personal move in such a vacuum without considering the coaching staff. The biggest problem for Whaley is that he has never been given the ability to freely select his own head coach. Does anyone think he choose Marone or Rex. This team is far more talented on both sides of the ball than anytime within the last 5 years. Fans and the Bills management always want to fire the person that has actually done his job. It's time Whaley demand to the owners that he be allowed to do his job and get the coach he is comfortable with developing the talent that is clearly on this team. It doesn't matter how he acquires talent, draft , free agency... who cares. Tim graham is a unprofessional loser, that why he is back at the buffalo news instead of major national outlet writing crappy articles with a clear agenda. Every true Bills fan should know that article was not worth paper it was written on when Graham said Doug Marone wanted Fitz to be his quarterback...Really.. wake up BILLS FAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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