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Notre Dame Must Vacate Wins from 2012-13 and 2013-14

26CornerBlitz

By 26CornerBlitz
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YoloinOhio Hall of Famer

YoloinOhio

Posted
Posted (edited)

vacating wins is a joke. It's like something from a George Orwell book: "these wins never happened." Talk about re-writing history. It's not like they give wins to the teams they beat, it's like the games never happened.

except for Kelly, whose coaching record will now be absent those wins. He has to be done there, right?

 

Manti Teo thinks they still exist though

Edited by YoloinOhio
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KD in CA Hall of Famer

KD in CA

Posted
Posted

Oh boy this should be interesting. Honestly I'm not sure how good schools like ND or Stanford can compete without some sort of academic agreements in place to keep the players eligible.

 

That's why they have such a hard time competing any more against the top teams.

Why do they just vacate the wins?

 

Dumbest 'punishment' ever, be it Carroll's USC team, ND or anyone else.

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DriveFor1Outta5 Veteran

DriveFor1Outta5

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Posted (edited)

Oh boy this should be interesting. Honestly I'm not sure how good schools like ND or Stanford can compete without some sort of academic agreements in place to keep the players eligible.

I couldn't more. Stanford and ND are great schools, but people shouldn't believe for a second that the same admissions standards apply to football as the rest of the student body. If that were the case they would be in division three. Even the great academic schools bend the rules. It really doesn't matter if you are Stanford or FSU, either way you'll need to cheat to keep guys elgible. Edited by DriveFor1Outta5
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H2o Hall of Famer

H2o

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Of course Kelly says this effects his standing with the university in no way, shape, or form. Gives him another chance to blame his players with a smile on his face. I hope he gets the LSU job and leaves. At this point, I think I would rather have Weis or even Willingham back.

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Bagel UDFA

Bagel

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Posted

I couldn't more. Stanford and ND are great schools, but people shouldn't believe for a second that the same admissions standards apply to football as the rest of the student body. If that were the case they would be in division three. Even the great academic schools bend the rules. It really doesn't matter if you are Stanford or FSU, either way you'll need to cheat to keep guys elgible.

 

I don't know what you are basing this on, but having taught athletes at Stanford -- including Stanford football players -- I can assure you that this is not my experience.

 

I determined their grades and there was no "cheating" to keep them eligible.

 

I was not involved with admissions, but once on campus Stanford football players took the same courses and met the same academic requirements as their fellow Stanford students.

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plenzmd1 Hall of Famer

plenzmd1

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Posted

 

I don't know what you are basing this on, but having taught athletes at Stanford -- including Stanford football players -- I can assure you that this is not my experience.

 

I determined their grades and there was no "cheating" to keep them eligible.

 

I was not involved with admissions, but once on campus Stanford football players took the same courses and met the same academic requirements as their fellow Stanford students.

That was always what i thought...ND, Stanford, the Ivy's...you might be able to get in with lowered standards than the average bear...but once there it is sink or swim. Granted, they have academic advisors on every team, and i assume on revenue teams like BB and Football...like a ratio of 3 athletes per advisor/tutor.

 

My daughter is Senior this year and was recruited in a non-revenue sport..her coach always said 3 seconds faster in a 200 is worth more than extra 100 on the SAT...and man is that ever true!

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DriveFor1Outta5 Veteran

DriveFor1Outta5

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That was always what i thought...ND, Stanford, the Ivy's...you might be able to get in with lowered standards than the average bear...but once there it is sink or swim. Granted, they have academic advisors on every team, and i assume on revenue teams like BB and Football...like a ratio of 3 athletes per advisor/tutor.

 

My daughter is Senior this year and was recruited in a non-revenue sport..her coach always said 3 seconds faster in a 200 is worth more than extra 100 on the SAT...and man is that ever true!

Doesn't ND vacating these wins due to academic agreements prove that these schools aren't always "sink or swim" for athletes?

 

I don't know what you are basing this on, but having taught athletes at Stanford -- including Stanford football players -- I can assure you that this is not my experience.

 

I determined their grades and there was no "cheating" to keep them eligible.

 

I was not involved with admissions, but once on campus Stanford football players took the same courses and met the same academic requirements as their fellow Stanford students.

I'm bashing ND for what just came out. I'm also bashing the people who claim this never happens at "good" schools.
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plenzmd1 Hall of Famer

plenzmd1

Posted
Posted

Doesn't ND vacating these wins due to academic agreements prove that these schools aren't always "sink or swim" for athletes?

 

Agree...think there will always be one offs....but in the main athletes still need to do the work to stay eligible and graduate at top tier academic schools.

 

Weird, you would have thought the problems at NC would have affected their academic reputation more than it has..still tough as balls to get in there for an out of state student

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Beef Jerky Veteran

Beef Jerky

Posted
Posted

@AP_Top25

 

BREAKING: NCAA orders Notre Dame to vacate wins from 2012-13 and 2013-14 football seasons in academic misconduct case.

 

What a dumb thing... Can't take away what happened in the past.

If they lose future number of football scholarships as a penalty , that would hurt.

It only hurts those few players that wouldn't have received one b.c they are not start athletes. The stars they recruit would still get them. This hurts the kids not the actual team.

When things like this happen they should just force the firing of all adults in charge. Not punish those kids who are coming out of HS with hope to play football.

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8-8 Forever? Veteran

8-8 Forever?

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Posted

I couldn't more. Stanford and ND are great schools, but people shouldn't believe for a second that the same admissions standards apply to football as the rest of the student body. If that were the case they would be in division three. Even the great academic schools bend the rules. It really doesn't matter if you are Stanford or FSU, either way you'll need to cheat to keep guys elgible.

yep. if you want to be competitive in D1, your coach owns you daily for 4 years. no way you can compete academically at an ND or Stanford AND be a top D1 athlete. not enough time in the day.

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Bagel UDFA

Bagel

Posted
Posted

yep. if you want to be competitive in D1, your coach owns you daily for 4 years. no way you can compete academically at an ND or Stanford AND be a top D1 athlete. not enough time in the day.

Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, but having taught D1 athletes at Stanford I can assure you that is not the case there.

 

You may not like guys like Doug Baldwin, Andrew Luck, Richard Sherman or AJ Tarpley, but those guys worked HARD (and honestly) at Stanford.

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C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

Posted
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I couldn't more. Stanford and ND are great schools, but people shouldn't believe for a second that the same admissions standards apply to football as the rest of the student body. If that were the case they would be in division three. Even the great academic schools bend the rules. It really doesn't matter if you are Stanford or FSU, either way you'll need to cheat to keep guys elgible.

I can clearly tell you have never been recruited. Every school has slightly different standards for athletes. Most schools use something called the athlete's index, where their gpa and SATs are weighed. Ivy League schools, for instance, will take a few students who mid to low. Other schools will be a lot more open and take a ton of low scale students.

 

But it's insulting to assume a school like Stanford cheats. It's one the few programs that actually believes in being a school first. Have you ever read about players like Luck or Shayne Skov? These guys proudly call themselves nerds. And one of the reasons Jonathan Martin struggled with RI is because Stanford is a completely different environment than the rest of the meathead programs.

yep. if you want to be competitive in D1, your coach owns you daily for 4 years. no way you can compete academically at an ND or Stanford AND be a top D1 athlete. not enough time in the day.

Again, they recruit differently and special kids. Believe it or not, there are Ivy League school's filled with guys who could have played bigger D 1 football but are wired differently.

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\GoBillsInDallas/ All Pro

\GoBillsInDallas/

Posted
Posted (edited)

Honestly I'm not sure how good schools like ND or Stanford can compete without some sort of academic agreements in place to keep the players eligible.

 

That's why they have such a hard time competing any more against the top teams.

 

Stanford and ND are great schools, but people shouldn't believe for a second that the same admissions standards apply to football as the rest of the student body. If that were the case they would be in division three.

 

I don't know what you are basing this on, but having taught athletes at Stanford -- including Stanford football players -- I can assure you that this is not my experience.

 

I determined their grades and there was no "cheating" to keep them eligible.

 

I was not involved with admissions, but once on campus Stanford football players took the same courses and met the same academic requirements as their fellow Stanford students.

 

My daughter is Senior this year and was recruited in a non-revenue sport..her coach always said 3 seconds faster in a 200 is worth more than extra 100 on the SAT...and man is that ever true!

 

Doesn't ND vacating these wins due to academic agreements prove that these schools aren't always "sink or swim" for athletes?

I'm bashing ND for what just came out. I'm also bashing the people who claim this never happens at "good" schools.

 

Agree...think there will always be one offs....but in the main athletes still need to do the work to stay eligible and graduate at top tier academic schools.

 

yep. if you want to be competitive in D1, your coach owns you daily for 4 years. no way you can compete academically at an ND or Stanford AND be a top D1 athlete. not enough time in the day.

 

Again, I can only speak from my personal experience, but having taught D1 athletes at Stanford I can assure you that is not the case there.

 

I can clearly tell you have never been recruited. Every school has slightly different standards for athletes.

 

That's why they have the "Sociology" major. :lol:

 

Or, for Notre Dame specifically, why they have such "majors" as:

 

  • Africana Studies
  • American Studies
  • Arabic Studies
  • Film, Television, and Theatre
  • French and Francophone Studies
  • Gender Studies
  • Irish Language and Literature
  • Italian Studies
  • Medieval Studies
  • Political Science
  • Program of Liberal Studies
  • Sociology
  • Studio Art
  • Self-Designed Majors
Edited by \GoBillsInDallas/
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C.Biscuit97 Hall of Famer

C.Biscuit97

Posted
Posted

Also, Brian Kelly seems likes a miserable SOB. And he killed a kid so there's that too.

<p>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why they have the "Sociology" major. :lol:

 

Or, for Notre Dame specifically, why they have such "majors" as:

 

  • Africana Studies
  • American Studies
  • Arabic Studies
  • Film, Television, and Theatre
  • French and Francophone Studies
  • Gender Studies
  • Irish Language and Literature
  • Italian Studies
  • Medieval Studies
  • Political Science
  • Program of Liberal Studies
  • Sociology
  • Studio Art
  • Self-Designed Majors

Andrew Luck has an architectural design degree. Shayne Skov has an engineering degree. https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2013/3/18/4118830/stanford-football-shayne-skov?client=safari

 

Stanford is one school that does it the right way and it's why it's my favorite program in the country.

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Mr. WEO Hall of Famer

Mr. WEO

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's why they have the "Sociology" major. :lol:

 

Or, for Notre Dame specifically, why they have such "majors" as:

 

  • Africana Studies
  • American Studies
  • Arabic Studies
  • Film, Television, and Theatre
  • French and Francophone Studies
  • Gender Studies
  • Irish Language and Literature
  • Italian Studies
  • Medieval Studies
  • Political Science
  • Program of Liberal Studies
  • Sociology
  • Studio Art
  • Self-Designed Majors

 

 

And, eee gads!, look what they are up to at Harvard:

 

African and African American Studies

Classics

Comparative Literature

East Asian Studies

Folklore and Mythology

Germanic Languages

Government

History of Art and Architecture

Music

Philosophy

Slavic Language and Literature

Social Studies

Sociology

Special Concentrations

Theater

Women, Gender, and Sexuality

 

You may have stumbled onto something huge here!!

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DriveFor1Outta5 Veteran

DriveFor1Outta5

Posted
Posted (edited)

I can clearly tell you have never been recruited. Every school has slightly different standards for athletes. Most schools use something called the athlete's index, where their gpa and SATs are weighed. Ivy League schools, for instance, will take a few students who mid to low. Other schools will be a lot more open and take a ton of low scale students.

 

But it's insulting to assume a school like Stanford cheats. It's one the few programs that actually believes in being a school first. Have you ever read about players like Luck or Shayne Skov? These guys proudly call themselves nerds. And one of the reasons Jonathan Martin struggled with RI is because Stanford is a completely different environment than the rest of the meathead programs.

 

Again, they recruit differently and special kids. Believe it or not, there are Ivy League school's filled with guys who could have played bigger D 1 football but are wired differently.

Although "You can clearly tell I've never been recruited" doesn't mean I didn't already know that colleges have different standards for athletes than the general student body. In fact that was part of the point that I was making. These universities claim to be all about education and the betterment of the world. In reality a large portion of what they are about is the same as what the rest of the world is about, money. If it wasn't about money athletes would be held to the same admission standards as the rest of the student body. The reality is that these division one universities make money from football. The American system of college is all about the money. If these universities were all such moral beacons they wouldn't lower their standards for athletes.

 

Luck and Martin are exceptions rather than the rule. I won't be sold this bogus idea that Sherman is a genius because he attended Stanford. There are guys who played at both ND and Stanford who wouldn't have been admitted if it wasn't for football. They then proceed to take a cake major taylored to athletes. No one can ever convince me that this isn't the case. Especially when I see these guys interviewed compared to the other students who attend these schools. The examples of this at Stanford aren't as strong as those at ND, but it's really obvious at ND. PS Sorry to insult Stanford, I didn't know that institutions of higher education were sacred to the point that we can't even question any element of their operations. I didn't know if they cheat. I just said that I wouldn't completely rule it out. ND is guilty of cheating, and prior to this news plenty of people would have said that could never happen at such a fine institution.

Edited by DriveFor1Outta5
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