RD 1, Pick 19: DE Shaq Lawson, Clemson University

[Mr. WEO]

 

Well to be fair, I was looking to be accurate for mine.

 

Ha!

[YoloinOhio]

 

Where to start. OK, here. With the "If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play" thing.

 

I was refreshing my memory on Torrell Troup last night (you know, one pick ahead of Gronkowski?). In the linked article, Ty Dunne describes how Troup actually fractured a disc in his back during the final preseason game, sat out 3 weeks, then was "medically cleared" and returned to play 6 games - with a fractured disc, doped up on Toradol - until he simply couldn't bend at the waist and was in constant agony the needle couldn't touch. As reported by Dunne, when asked who wanted him to play, Troup responded: "The position coach, the head coach, the general manager, everybody but the other players. Troup wound up needing the following season to continue the recovery from his back surgery and was cut in 2013, now retired.

 

 

Dunne reports "An interview request with the Bills training staff was turned down by the team. But fresh off the golf course, Nix is asked this question. Troup was in pain. Nobody on the Bills stepped in. Why?Everybody has different thresholds of pain, Nix said, and nobody knows what kind of pain youre in except you. Medically, he was cleared to play."

 

Another poster commented that it's probably a misapprehension that the medical staff "clears" potential draftees medically. Rather, they comment on the severity, prognosis, and risk of the injury and then the GM and coaches take that info and digest it somehow and make a call. When the player is on the team already, that's a call that may or may not be in a player's best long term career interest, that may be influenced by the career trajectory of the GM and coach with or without that player. If it's left to the player, he may want to play because there's always someone behind him.

 

"If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play." Aaron Williams was cleared to play - and reinjured himself, and needed neck surgery. His playing future is up in the air until he gives and receives hits. Torrell Troup was cleared to play. It ended his career, requiring surgery and a year of extreme pain and disability.

 

I know, I know, anecdotes. But the judgement is looking questionable somewhere along the lines, at times.

 

Then let's move on to "As a rookie he's here to help but the season doesn't hang on him". Serious question: Why? We lost Mario, amidst questions about how hard he tried last season, but we clearly need someone at DE going hard to make the D work. Wasn't Shaq Lawson supposed to be the answer? Whaley made strong statements extolling our draft as giving us "Three Day One Starters." Pre-draft, it was explained that the Bills would fill gaps through the draft since our cap doesn't permit shopping during free agency. So how do you reach "he's here to help but the season doesn't hang on him" from those statements?

 

 

Of course, players with no injury history at all do get injured in training camp and start the rookie season injured. But I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around your "preventative surgery" concept. If the guy has a known injury he's been playing through with a brace, and if he did something that exacerbated it, there's an existing injury. So how can the surgery be "preventative"?

the season hangs on the QB play/health. Like every other team's season, IMO. All-pro Mario in 2013-14 didn't take the place of that, and neither will a rookie pass rusher stepping into take his place.

 

My understanding on the preventative nature is because he doesn't need it now, he can play without it and use a brace. His shoulder condition from college makes him more likely than someone without the condition to fully tear his labrum if he plays without a brace. During the predraft process, the medicals showed he could delay surgery until the 2017 offseason. Bills made the decision to do it now, since he tweaked it in drills. I don't know the result of the tweak, it has been "diagnosed" by a WGR caller as a SLAP tear, but I haven't seen anything official other than the Bills saying it was a labrum and that he could continue to play but the goal was to have him 100% for the last 3/4 of the year vs. playing with a brace. Basically, they are doing it because he's at increased risk to damage his shoulder with the current condition. Had he not been doing the drill without the brace the other day and aggravated it, I'd guess they wouldn't have moved forward with the surgery.

 

I wonder why he wasn't wearing the brace. I'm sure it's been discussed and I missed it.

Edited May 18, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[3rdand12]

 

Where to start. OK, here. With the "If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play" thing.

 

I was refreshing my memory on Torrell Troup last night (you know, one pick ahead of Gronkowski?). In the linked article, Ty Dunne describes how Troup actually fractured a disc in his back during the final preseason game, sat out 3 weeks, then was "medically cleared" and returned to play 6 games - with a fractured disc, doped up on Toradol - until he simply couldn't bend at the waist and was in constant agony the needle couldn't touch. As reported by Dunne, when asked who wanted him to play, Troup responded: "“The position coach, the head coach, the general manager, everybody but the other players.” Troup wound up needing the following season to continue the recovery from his back surgery and was cut in 2013, now retired.

 

Dunne reports "An interview request with the Bills’ training staff was turned down by the team. But fresh off the golf course, Nix is asked this question. Troup was in pain. Nobody on the Bills stepped in. Why?

“Everybody has different thresholds of pain,” Nix said, “and nobody knows what kind of pain you’re in except you. Medically, he was cleared to play."

 

Another poster commented that it's probably a misapprehension that the medical staff "clears" potential draftees medically. Rather, they comment on the severity, prognosis, and risk of the injury and then the GM and coaches take that info and digest it somehow and make a call. When the player is on the team already, that's a call that may or may not be in a player's best long term career interest, that may be influenced by the career trajectory of the GM and coach with or without that player. If it's left to the player, he may want to play because there's always someone behind him.

 

"If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play." Aaron Williams was cleared to play - and reinjured himself, and needed neck surgery. His playing future is up in the air until he gives and receives hits. Torrell Troup was cleared to play. It ended his career, requiring surgery and a year of extreme pain and disability.

 

I know, I know, anecdotes. But the judgement is looking questionable somewhere along the lines, at times.

 

Then let's move on to "As a rookie he's here to help but the season doesn't hang on him". Serious question: Why? We lost Mario, amidst questions about how hard he tried last season, but we clearly need someone at DE going hard to make the D work. Wasn't Shaq Lawson supposed to be the answer? Whaley made strong statements extolling our draft as giving us "Three Day One Starters." Pre-draft, it was explained that the Bills would fill gaps through the draft since our cap doesn't permit shopping during free agency. So how do you reach "he's here to help but the season doesn't hang on him" from those statements?

 

Of course, players with no injury history at all do get injured in training camp and start the rookie season injured. But I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around your "preventative surgery" concept. If the guy has a known injury he's been playing through with a brace, and if he did something that exacerbated it, there's an existing injury. So how can the surgery be "preventative"?

The Torell Troupe story is a cautionary tale. And i impressed you have brought it up. Most have long since forgotten his horror story.

I could take this incident and run to the rabbit hole with it honestly about Buffalo medica/ trainers /staff.

 

Cleared ? means next to nothing to fans in regard a players full diagnosis. But they will let him begin practicing again possibly.

 

a very blurred line

[Reed83HOF]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/18/some-say-shaq-lawson-shoulder-surgery-was-inevitable/

 

"“His shoulder was so bad it would have dislocated tying his shoes,” one league source told PFT."

[Coach Tuesday]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/18/some-say-shaq-lawson-shoulder-surgery-was-inevitable/

 

"His shoulder was so bad it would have dislocated tying his shoes, one league source told PFT."

Just ridiculous. This organization continues to be a laughingstock.

[3rdand12]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/18/some-say-shaq-lawson-shoulder-surgery-was-inevitable/

 

"“His shoulder was so bad it would have dislocated tying his shoes,” one league source told PFT."

Thats a freaking strong statement! Maybe they will be asked to back that up.

I am very shocked if that is confirmable.

Just ridiculous. This organization continues to be a laughingstock.

You sure this isn't just getting the spin cycle ?

Next highlight on PFT right now is SF signing a udfa for QB competition

[26CornerBlitz]

Thats a freaking strong statement! Maybe they will be asked to back that up.

I am very shocked if that is confirmable.

 

Does that line up with playing at such a high level for Clemson w/o missing even one game?

[Augie]

Thats a freaking strong statement! Maybe they will be asked to back that up.

I am very shocked if that is confirmable.

It could not be confirmed, but those shoes with the Velcro straps should have been a clue.

[3rdand12]

 

Does that line up with playing at such a high level for Clemson w/o missing even one game?

Exactly! Outrageous words that will have a ripple affect. I see Buffalo responding to this comment strongly behind the scenes.

 

Wow.

It could not be confirmed, but those shoes with the Velcro straps should have been a clue.

I wish you could be serious for one damned minute Augie. just one.

 

Is this the Natty Nattitude for Nits thread all over a again ?

What are you saying about Velcro? You seem biased.

[YoloinOhio]

Shoelaces, wet mats and tackling dummies all banned from OBD, per source.

[mannc]

 

Where to start. OK, here. With the "If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play" thing.

 

I was refreshing my memory on Torrell Troup last night (you know, one pick ahead of Gronkowski?). In the linked article, Ty Dunne describes how Troup actually fractured a disc in his back during the final preseason game, sat out 3 weeks, then was "medically cleared" and returned to play 6 games - with a fractured disc, doped up on Toradol - until he simply couldn't bend at the waist and was in constant agony the needle couldn't touch. As reported by Dunne, when asked who wanted him to play, Troup responded: "“The position coach, the head coach, the general manager, everybody but the other players.” Troup wound up needing the following season to continue the recovery from his back surgery and was cut in 2013, now retired.

 

Dunne reports "An interview request with the Bills’ training staff was turned down by the team. But fresh off the golf course, Nix is asked this question. Troup was in pain. Nobody on the Bills stepped in. Why?

“Everybody has different thresholds of pain,” Nix said, “and nobody knows what kind of pain you’re in except you. Medically, he was cleared to play."

 

Another poster commented that it's probably a misapprehension that the medical staff "clears" potential draftees medically. Rather, they comment on the severity, prognosis, and risk of the injury and then the GM and coaches take that info and digest it somehow and make a call. When the player is on the team already, that's a call that may or may not be in a player's best long term career interest, that may be influenced by the career trajectory of the GM and coach with or without that player. If it's left to the player, he may want to play because there's always someone behind him.

 

"If he's cleared to play he's cleared to play." Aaron Williams was cleared to play - and reinjured himself, and needed neck surgery. His playing future is up in the air until he gives and receives hits. Torrell Troup was cleared to play. It ended his career, requiring surgery and a year of extreme pain and disability.

 

I know, I know, anecdotes. But the judgement is looking questionable somewhere along the lines, at times.

 

 

 

I can't read the name "Torrell Troup" without thinking about how the Bills' vaunted medical staff red-flagged Rob Gronkowski, who the Pats wasted a pick on with the next selection.

[K-9]

 

Does that line up with playing at such a high level for Clemson w/o missing even one game?

Or handing Ron Stanley his ass?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Augie]

Shoelaces, wet mats and tackling dummies all banned from OBD, per source.

Shoelaces should be banned here on certain threads due to suicide watch protocol.

[K-9]

Quick factual question. Has Shaq's specific injury been verified beyond "shoulder"? I've seen speculation, but nothing definitive.

I've hear it reported as a slight labrum tear according to NFLN's Ian Rappaport. I tend to believe this vs. anything more serious given the sheer length of time he was able to play with it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Best Player Available]

Does that line up with playing at such a high level for Clemson w/o missing even one game?

 

Come. On i expect better from you. First his last year was his one and only year as a starter.

being brutally honest he and every athelete with NFL aspirations knows they are being scouted

On each and every play. They know the high stakes and millions of dollars at stake. depending on where

They are slotted. This is simply

IMO another in a long list of OBD thinking they are the smartest guys in the room. Sorry 16 years and running 3 with Whaley say otherwise. Perhaps after drafting

Him a comment and understanding similar to a certain injured back drafted years ago along the lines of

" he is injured we will correct this before we risk a career ending injury" would float way better than what Whaley said.

Which in another thread you conveniently refused to rely to me what he said after calling me out as being wrong. I was

Not wrong. The Bills called him a day 1 starter. This is irregardless of his talent or potential. OBD chest pumping that on their

Board they got two first round picks in round 1&2 looks foolish no? Of course I am wrong and negative because I simply am not a Whaley ball washer. Like the usual suspects here. it's laughable.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Best Player Available

[Augie]

I wish you could be serious for one damned minute Augie. just one.

 

This is how I get through the off-season.

 

Then it's how I get through the season.

[3rdand12]

This is how I get through the off-season.

 

Then it's how I get through the season.

oh.

 

yea. me too.

[CommonCents]

Clemson has avoided all the poop throwing!? Why would they allow a high profile athlete to go through multiple offseasons without addressing a lingering injury which will get worse not better. That is not a good look for their staff either, something with this entire situation smells funny. Maybe it's all the poop?

[Augie]

And I am Pro-Velcro. I don't want to go barefoot in my later years!

[YoloinOhio]

This is how I get through the off-season.

 

Then it's how I get through the season.

i prefer vodka