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No progress toward TT extension per Carucci; agent unhappy

YoloinOhio

By YoloinOhio
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plenzmd1 Hall of Famer

plenzmd1

Posted
Posted

Sorry. I don't live here like some people. I'm ready to chime in.

 

This is great news. I give Taylor a lot of credit for being a man of his word, which is something you rarely see in the NFL, especially when his agent is making noise.

 

It is because other players have used good seasons as leverage for better deals, even before their contracts are done.

I can't remember a single QB ever holding out or demanding a new contract before his old was done..Wilson made some noise about baseball , but in the end all noise.

 

I am sure there are some examples...anybody remember one? Even one that did not technically hold out but just had the franchise tag and stayed away?

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SouthernMan RFA

SouthernMan

Posted
Posted

Getting a little football fever, I pulled up some of the Bills games that were DVR'd last season. This is not by any means a scientific analysis - just my observation and opinion following a couple hours of review......

 

Taylor is at present, an o.k. quarterback - nothing special.

His quickness on his feet are his best asset. His timing is not great following the snap (holds the ball too long), he's not consistently accurate with his passes, doesn't possess very good field vision, his decision-making is dubious. Sure, he had some moments that show potential, but he's not there, based on his 2015 performance.

 

It's my belief that Taylor's agent wants a better deal and extension now because the very real possibility that Taylor may regress, or at least have another season of average play.

 

The Bills have no need to re-do Taylor's deal. They're in the driver's seat on this one.

 

Based on the existing and known past performances of Taylor, it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills take a QB early in the draft as a bit of insurance. IF they think it's a good value, I wouldn't be shocked if it was the 1st rounder - though I don't know there will be a QB at 19 worthy of that pick.

 

I don't think they have complete faith TT being the future of the franchise. He still has to show a lot more than he has so far.

 

At any rate, TT's agent has zero leverage at this time in regard to trying to get a new deal for Taylor.

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Freddie's Dead Hall of Famer

Freddie's Dead

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Bills are attempting to do with Tyrod what they did with Jerry Hughes and Richie Incognito. The Bills pay WELL below market for services rendered, then they get them to sign lowball hometown discount deals. Jerry and Richie bit, but I don't think Tyrod will. This is shaping up to be a long, protracted negotiation. But that's a problem for 2017. For now, we have the best cheapest QB in the NFL.

Edited by Freddie's Dead
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26CornerBlitz Hall of Famer

26CornerBlitz

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The Bills are attempting to do with Tyrod what they did with Jerry Hughes and Richie Incognito. The Bills pay WELL below market for services rendered, then they get them to sign lowball hometown discount deals. Jerry and Richie bit, but I don't think Tyrod will. This is shaping up to be a long, protracted negotiation. But that's a problem for 2017. For now, we have the best cheapest QB in the NFL.

 

The Bills have said they'll happily pay him market value as they did with Dareus.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Bills are attempting to do with Tyrod what they did with Jerry Hughes and Richie Incognito. The Bills pay WELL below market for services rendered, then they get them to sign lowball hometown discount deals. Jerry and Richie bit, but I don't think Tyrod will. This is shaping up to be a long, protracted negotiation. But that's a problem for 2017. For now, we have the best cheapest QB in the NFL.

 

Huh?

 

Did they pay "WELL below market" for Marcell Dareus? For Aaron Williams? LeSean McCoy? Eric Wood?

 

Richie got a $5M/year deal as a 32-year old guard; show me one other player that's done as well or better at his position and age.

 

Really, your argument comes down to that Hughes took a hometown discount...so yeah, 1 player.

Edited by thebandit27
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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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I forgot, they lowballed Dareus too.

 

No, they didn't.

 

Negotiating and "low-balling" aren't the same thing.

 

It actually seems like you just want to say something inaccurate and have it be accepted as true despite the facts that run counter to it.

 

The ONLY example of a below-market contract is Jerry Hughes.

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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

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Posted

I forgot, they lowballed Dareus too.

Doesn't every team try to get every player for as cheap as they can while every player tries to get as much as they can? Isn't that basic negotiation? At some point they meet at a number that they are both comfortable with and get it done.

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Freddie's Dead Hall of Famer

Freddie's Dead

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Huh?

 

Did they pay "WELL below market" for Marcell Dareus? For Aaron Williams? LeSean McCoy? Eric Wood?

 

Richie got a $5M/year deal as a 32-year old guard; show me one other player that's done as well or better at his position and age.

 

Really, your argument comes down to that Hughes took a hometown discount...so yeah, 1 player.

OK, I should have been more clear. The Bills pay well below market value in the contract year, then they lowball. I disagree with you on Richie, he was due $6.5-7M/year, but he left a ton of money on the table to stay here. I also thought they lowballed Dareus about $10M based on the comparables at his position. I'll give them that, they're somehow able to get these guys to stay here for less money.

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Doesn't every team try to get every player for as cheap as they can while every player tries to get as much as they can? Isn't that basic negotiation? At some point they meet at a number that they are both comfortable with and get it done.

 

Actually, Kirby, that's pretty much the job of every business that employs humans in the entire world.

 

Get the most production for the least amount of money--that's called a profit (I'm well aware that you already know this :lol: )

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Wayne Cubed All Pro

Wayne Cubed

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OK, I should have been more clear. The Bills pay well below market value in the contract year, then they lowball. I disagree with you on Richie, he was due $6.5-7M/year, but he left a ton of money on the table to stay here. I also thought they lowballed Dareus about $10M based on the comparables at his position. I'll give them that, they're somehow able to get these guys to stay here for less money.

 

And you're complaining about this, why?

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

Posted
Posted (edited)

OK, I should have been more clear. The Bills pay well below market value in the contract year, then they lowball. I disagree with you on Richie, he was due $6.5-7M/year, but he left a ton of money on the table to stay here. I also thought they lowballed Dareus about $10M based on the comparables at his position. I'll give them that, they're somehow able to get these guys to stay here for less money.

 

They didn't low-ball Dareus; he got nearly the same deal as JJ Watt (Watt got $600k/year more in AAV, but $8.5M less in guaranteed money).

 

If you disagree with me on Richie, then show me the comparable: a 32-year old guard coming off a pro bowl. The closest I've got is Evan Mathis last year, and he got less than $4M/year.

 

The only below-market contract is Jerry Hughes.

Edited by thebandit27
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Freddie's Dead Hall of Famer

Freddie's Dead

Posted
Posted

 

They didn't low-ball Dareus; he got nearly the same deal as JJ Watt (Watt got $600k/year more in AAV, but $8.5M less in guaranteed money).

 

If you disagree with me on Richie, then show me the comparable: a 32-year old guard coming off a pro bowl. The closest I've got is Evan Mathis last year, and he got less than $4M/year.

 

The only below-market contract is Jerry Hughes.

I changed the below to Courier, hope it's readable. Dareus basically took the McCoy contract, with more guaranteed. I think he's below market because he should be much closer to Suh. I stand by my statement that he left about $10M on the table. As far as Richie, I figured $6M/yr based on Yanda's contract.

 

Player Team TotalValue Avg./Year Total Guaranteed Avg.Guar./Year %Guaranteed Free Agency

Ndamukong Suh Dolphins $114,375,000 $19,062,500 $59,955,000 $9,992,500 52.4% 2021 UFA

Gerald McCoy Buccaneers $95,200,000 $13,600,000 $14,757,308 $2,108,187 15.5% 2022 UFA

Marcell Dareus Bills $95,100,000 $15,850,000 $42,900,000 $7,150,000 45.1% 2022 UFA

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CountDorkula Veteran

CountDorkula

Posted
Posted

 

In your scenario, who starts at QB this season?

Wentz

 

Obviously it's the QB who hasn't taken a single NFL snap and didn't even play at the FBS level.

 

This totally matters. Almost as much as a cone drill measures how good a linebacker will be or 40 yard dash time for a WR.

 

Well that would give you and everyone else complete comfort I have no doubt. :rolleyes:

Correct, we can tell how good a player is going to be/not be based on what college he attended.

 

Man this scouting stuff is sooooo easy.

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26CornerBlitz Hall of Famer

26CornerBlitz

Posted
Posted

Wentz

 

 

This totally matters. Almost as much as a cone drill measures how good a linebacker will be or 40 yard dash time for a WR.

Correct, we can tell how good a player is going to be/not be based on what college he attended.

 

Man this scouting stuff is sooooo easy.

 

Have some green bananas. :thumbsup:

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John from Riverside Hall of Famer

John from Riverside

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Posted

Wentz

 

Well...you can certainly tell your a bills fan sabatoging the team with that kind of scenario.

 

 

This totally matters. Almost as much as a cone drill measures how good a linebacker will be or 40 yard dash time for a WR.

 

Actually.....the cone drill matters much more for a linebacker....but anyways

Correct, we can tell how good a player is going to be/not be based on what college he attended.

 

You certainly can take a educated guess ESPECIALLY in the first year.....most rookie QBs do not do well in their first years....and in your scenario you want to trade a player that should he could efficiently get it done for a complete unknown AND MORE PICKS

 

Man this scouting stuff is sooooo easy.

 

For those that dont get fired for mistakes

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NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

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I can't remember a single QB ever holding out or demanding a new contract before his old was done..Wilson made some noise about baseball , but in the end all noise.

 

I am sure there are some examples...anybody remember one? Even one that did not technically hold out but just had the franchise tag and stayed away?

through mini camps yea, but no one in training camp that i recall ever.

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CountDorkula Veteran

CountDorkula

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Wentz

 

Well...you can certainly tell your a bills fan sabatoging the team with that kind of scenario.

 

 

This totally matters. Almost as much as a cone drill measures how good a linebacker will be or 40 yard dash time for a WR.

 

Actually.....the cone drill matters much more for a linebacker....but anyways

Correct, we can tell how good a player is going to be/not be based on what college he attended.

 

You certainly can take a educated guess ESPECIALLY in the first year.....most rookie QBs do not do well in their first years....and in your scenario you want to trade a player that should he could efficiently get it done for a complete unknown AND MORE PICKS

 

Man this scouting stuff is sooooo easy.

 

For those that dont get fired for mistakes

 

 

Im sabotaging the tem by trying to find a legit NFL QB?

 

my bad, i thought that was kind of how you stayed competitive in this league, instead of trying to keep an 11-man d-unit in tact to keep the team a-float.

 

Also, the combine is garbage. It tells you very little.

Edited by CountDorkula
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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

Posted
Posted (edited)

I changed the below to Courier, hope it's readable. Dareus basically took the McCoy contract, with more guaranteed. I think he's below market because he should be much closer to Suh. I stand by my statement that he left about $10M on the table. As far as Richie, I figured $6M/yr based on Yanda's contract.

 

Player Team TotalValue Avg./Year Total Guaranteed Avg.Guar./Year %Guaranteed Free Agency

Ndamukong Suh Dolphins $114,375,000 $19,062,500 $59,955,000 $9,992,500 52.4% 2021 UFA

Gerald McCoy Buccaneers $95,200,000 $13,600,000 $14,757,308 $2,108,187 15.5% 2022 UFA

Marcell Dareus Bills $95,100,000 $15,850,000 $42,900,000 $7,150,000 45.1% 2022 UFA

Marshall Yanda is a 5x pro bowler who got his deal before he turned 30--that's not a comparable IMO

 

As to Dareus, he actually got a teeny bit more guaranteed money than Suh (remember, the figures above are for the extension only; his new deal actually replaced the final year of his rookie contract, so there's an additional amount of guaranteed money that isn't published here)--I don't think it's reasonable to say he left $ on the table in that light, especially when he wasn't an UFA like Suh. Also, he didn't "basically take the McCoy contract"; he got $2.2M more per year. His deal is MUCH closer to JJ Watt's than it is to McCoy's.

Edited by thebandit27
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atlbillsfan1975 All Pro

atlbillsfan1975

Posted
Posted

I forgot, they lowballed Dareus too.

Let's say the Bills did 'lowball' Dareus and got him to sign a below market deal. So what? What do you care? You should be ecstatic, it affords the Bills a greater opportunity to sign more quality players in theory. Tell me on player Whaley has lost due to money?

I can't help but ask when would you be happy? If the Bills overpaid for a player or underpaid for a player that made the team better?

I don't envision Whaley holding a gun to Dareus' head and saying 'either your signature or your brains are going on that contract'

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thebandit27 Hall of Famer

thebandit27

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Posted

 

"We are not trading Stevie Johnson"

 

He said that the day the season ended--he couldn't know at that point that they'd add Sammy Watkins 5 months later.

 

It's a far cry from saying that they won't trade the starting QB 8 days before the draft.

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FireChan All Pro

FireChan

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Posted

 

He said that the day the season ended--he couldn't know at that point that they'd add Sammy Watkins 5 months later.

 

It's a far cry from saying that they won't trade the starting QB 8 days before the draft.

But once you add a guy in the draft, it can change everything.

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3rdand12 Hall of Famer

3rdand12

Posted
Posted

But once you add a guy in the draft, it can change everything.

afraid it is true.

and whaley always tosses out his signature lines. I cannot watch him in pressers any more. But i do like checking in on Monos and Kelvin ( i like those guys actually )

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Kirby Jackson Hall of Famer

Kirby Jackson

Posted
Posted

League source-- TT's agent using Osweiler deal as "starting point"

http://www.wgr550.com/pages/22700756.php?contentType=4&contentId=18705359

That's kind of what I expected. I think Tyrod has roughly the same experience and was a little more "dominant." I put that in quotes so that it doesn't get taken out of context. What I mean is that Tyrod is more capable of carrying a team than Brock. I didn't mean that either was dominant.
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Punching Bag Hall of Famer

Punching Bag

Posted
Posted

League source-- TT's agent using Osweiler deal as "starting point"

http://www.wgr550.com/pages/22700756.php?contentType=4&contentId=18705359

 

Sounds a lot like negotations between Panthers and Norman.

 

 

League sources have indicated to me there are several people in the organization who believe Taylor’s agent, Adisa Bakari, is pricing his client out of the range the Bills are willing to go, and won’t budge.

More on his agent:

 

The new law firm cash cow: professional athletes?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/the-new-law-firm-cash-cow-professional-athletes/2013/11/08/9aff0b70-47db-11e3-a196-3544a03c2351_story.html

 

“We view [athletes] as high net-worth clients, as executive clients,” said Bakari, who chairs the sports and entertainment group. “We sell long-term success and business protection.”

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Doc Hall of Famer

Doc

Posted
Posted (edited)

League source-- TT's agent using Osweiler deal as "starting point"

http://www.wgr550.com/pages/22700756.php?contentType=4&contentId=18705359

Shocker.

 

The Bills don't have to do anything with his contract. I want to see tons of pass plays called the first quarter of the season at least to see if TT has what it takes.

Edited by Doc
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