YoloinOhio Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Interesting article from another team's perspective on whether to sign him once he is cut... http://www.scout.com/nfl/buccaneers/story/1641834-pros-and-cons-with-mario-williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 -In a league where pass rushers are at a premium, why is this the 2nd time Williams has hit free agency? Good point CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 As someone who enjoys watching the game of football, I can not be this forgiving. In Buffalo we have endured horrible football from "the home team" for almost a full decade and a half. I could care less about the owner's super inflated ego or the mega ego of the head coach he hired. I don't care if it is a "bad look" for his ego to fire a head coach who in just one year destroyed a top tier defense because of his own super ego. True football professionals respect just one thing, how successful are you at putting a winning team on the field. The money guys of the business just care about the bottom line. Ego is not about winning or loosing, or making money, it is all about the "I". To me an owner should have some type of responsibility to the community and the fans to create the best possible product on the field, while still making a reasonable profit. I don't give Pegula a pass just because he kept the team in Buffalo for at least a few years more. I still expect a real effort to put the best team on the field for the fans and the community each and every year. I get that but what I'm saying is that there is a coaching community. If our owner gets a reputation as crazy uncle Terry who fires guys after one year, that will be bad long term. Our penance is to live through another season with Rex who was clearly an enormous mistake at the wrong time in this team's history. How anyone can dispute this is beyond comprehension given defense 2014 vs. 2015. That doesn't really matter though because 2016 sadly will erase all doubt. If you bet the over in all Bills games you will probably be 4-0 before Vegas adjusts properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 This. It sucks that Mario got so frustrated that he basically quit on the field, and yes that points to flaw in his character, BUT if the coaching staff was competent and understood what they had and were able to coach up the talent they had to make the best use of their talents HE WOULDN'T HAVE QUIT. People who want to point out specific plays where Mario don't dominate when he was 1-1 !) don't know if on that play he was not supposed to be rushing and was just supposed to be taking up space as part of the unholy scheme and 2) have to account for for the possibility where the coaching had basically destroyed his will to play due to their incompetence in making use of the talent they had. Professional or not - it's simply human nature. There's no doubt in my mind Mario would have played at a high level last season if the coaching staff was competent in making use of the talent they had, It's cause and effect. Incompetent coaching caused Mario's lost year. It's the coaches job to put the players in the best position to win, and get them to play at a high level. They failed. I agree with a lot of this but the question is: now what? Do we keep Mario because he has the potential to better than he was in 2015? I don't think so. Obviously there's something wrong between Rex and Mario. Whether it's relationship, scheme, or something else, it just wasn't working. Even good coaches don't always connect with each and every player. Shame on Rex for not figuring out how to bring the best out of Mario but now it's time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If your concern is wins and losses and not any of this other nonsense being talked about, I think anyone would rather have Mario on this team than Rex. Sad that it's a foregone conclusion that this team is going to make the wrong decision. Again. Sixteen years and counting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) If your concern is wins and losses and not any of this other nonsense being talked about, I think anyone would rather have Mario on this team than Rex. Sad that it's a foregone conclusion that this team is going to make the wrong decision. Again. Sixteen years and counting...it isn't about Mario or Rex. It's about 13 mill in cap space. The coach could be anyone. Would you rather have Cordy Glenn, incognito and say Noah spence across from Hughes, or keep Mario and take a OT in the 1st round. Who is more replaceable, Glenn at age 25 or Mario at 31? Who would be more effective as a rookie, a LT or a pass rusher? These are more of the questions I ponder, IMO - have never considered it to be Mario or Rex. Edited February 12, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 it isn't about Mario or Rex. It's about 13 mill in cap space. The coach could be anyone. Would you rather have Cordy Glenn, incognito and say Noah spence across from Hughes, or keep Mario and take a OT in the 1st round. Who is more replaceable, Glenn at age 25 or Mario at 31? Who would be more effective as a rookie, a LT or a pass rusher? These are more of the questions I ponder, IMO - have never considered it to be Mario or Rex. On the Mario or Rex issue, they certainly don't coexist well. I understand Mario has to go - for a variety of reasons. But if he had still been in a defense where rushing the passer was his primary responsibility we'd probably be talking about the possibility of a contract extension for him to lower his cap hit, not the inevitability of his exit. I hate seeing coaches waste talent like with Mario. It points to inflexibility on their part. The best coaches make the most of what they have to work with. The problem I have on the personnel side is that Glenn and Incognito or Mario wasn't the only choice here. It might be now, but there were other places money for Mario (especially if his deal was reworked) could have come from. It doesn't make sense to do that based on his responsibilities in the current scheme, but if he was still primarily rushing the passer it sure might have been. The Bills have spent poorly/questionably recently: a tremendous overpayment for Clay, Shady's huge deal and $6M thrown away on Harvin last season leap to mind. Then there are the Dareus and Hughes deals that looked very reasonable when they were signed, but now I find somewhat questionable due to scheme. Paying big money to players that excelled in an attacking one-gap scheme, then making them change to a more passive two-gap scheme has trouble written all over it. I just do not see how the defense improves much next season. It's not about the players becoming familiar with the scheme, it's that most of the front seven talent doesn't fit the scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livinginthepast Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Sad to see Mario go. But sadder that it really didnt pan out the way the Bills thought or we wanted it to. In the end We are in an era where 95% of the players in this league are expendable when they get older and the contracts get too big. I really thought that Mario would be a dominant factor in the time he was here on D. He ended up being good for 2/4 years but never a devastating presence on the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 it isn't about Mario or Rex. It's about 13 mill in cap space. The coach could be anyone. Would you rather have Cordy Glenn, incognito and say Noah spence across from Hughes, or keep Mario and take a OT in the 1st round. Who is more replaceable, Glenn at age 25 or Mario at 31? Who would be more effective as a rookie, a LT or a pass rusher? These are more of the questions I ponder, IMO - have never considered it to be Mario or Rex. I can't state it any better than BarleyNY above. It's our collective tortured Bills fan mentality that says if we do X, then we'll have to compensate by doing Y. We could theoretically have kept Mario and re-signed our key free agents if the powers that be didn't spend like drunken sailors last off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Very disappointing all around, I have to say. I'm with you. I think he makes the pro bowl next year. Really. People blaming Rex on Mario? How many playoff games has Mario won since joining the NFL? jw Umm, that would be the TEAM that won, not Mario. And yes, people are blaming Rex on Mario. Along with Marcel, our Lb's and and Hughes, etc. On the Mario or Rex issue, they certainly don't coexist well. I understand Mario has to go - for a variety of reasons. But if he had still been in a defense where rushing the passer was his primary responsibility we'd probably be talking about the possibility of a contract extension for him to lower his cap hit, not the inevitability of his exit. I hate seeing coaches waste talent like with Mario. It points to inflexibility on their part. The best coaches make the most of what they have to work with. The problem I have on the personnel side is that Glenn and Incognito or Mario wasn't the only choice here. It might be now, but there were other places money for Mario (especially if his deal was reworked) could have come from. It doesn't make sense to do that based on his responsibilities in the current scheme, but if he was still primarily rushing the passer it sure might have been. The Bills have spent poorly/questionably recently: a tremendous overpayment for Clay, Shady's huge deal and $6M thrown away on Harvin last season leap to mind. Then there are the Dareus and Hughes deals that looked very reasonable when they were signed, but now I find somewhat questionable due to scheme. Paying big money to players that excelled in an attacking one-gap scheme, then making them change to a more passive two-gap scheme has trouble written all over it. I just do not see how the defense improves much next season. It's not about the players becoming familiar with the scheme, it's that most of the front seven talent doesn't fit the scheme. I'm with you. You are making too much sense for some folks here. Stop it!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 On the Mario or Rex issue, they certainly don't coexist well. I understand Mario has to go - for a variety of reasons. But if he had still been in a defense where rushing the passer was his primary responsibility we'd probably be talking about the possibility of a contract extension for him to lower his cap hit, not the inevitability of his exit. I hate seeing coaches waste talent like with Mario. It points to inflexibility on their part. The best coaches make the most of what they have to work with. I agree with this completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstealer Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If so, first nail in Rex's head coaching coffin. When Rex hired Rob, it became evident to me the he's certain he and staff will not be retained. He's positive he can't coach to the level of the competition. They probably made a secret deal for Rob to give Rex a big portion of his salary when they're released a year from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) The Bills have spent poorly/questionably recently: a tremendous overpayment for Clay, Shady's huge deal and $6M thrown away on Harvin last season leap to mind. Then there are the Dareus and Hughes deals that looked very reasonable when they were signed, but now I find somewhat questionable due to scheme. Paying big money to players that excelled in an attacking one-gap scheme, then making them change to a more passive two-gap scheme has trouble written all over it. I just do not see how the defense improves much next season. You've made this statement a couple times, about two-gap, and I'm not quite sure you understand it. Yes, Ryan uses some two-gap scheme but that happens mostly in his base 4-3 or 3-4 fronts. This is purposeful, he's trying to stop the run and hopes his LBs can make the plays. Even still in his base 4-3 under, which Mario was lined up in multiple times, he was playing in 9-tech with the SAM Linebacker playing the other 9-tech. Those are single-gap responsibilities. Saying all that, all of this changes when Ryan goes to a nickel package. He'll move the NT to a 1-gap and move the DE to a 3-tech with 1-gap responsibility. He then puts in edge rushers at 9-tech. Either everyone rushes the passer or a LB blitzes and an edge guy drops off or they blitz and every keeps rushing. His scheme is multiple it is never just one thing. Is 2-gap important to Rex Ryan? Sure, it is but guys like Wilkerson, Richardson, Pyrce and Ngata have done well as rushers by Rex being multiple and allowing a shaded alignment. EDIT: Did it bother Williams playing multiple fronts? Maybe. Maybe he just wanted to play his RDE spot and that was it. Is that an excuse for him not putting forth the required effort or buying into the scheme? IMO, no it's not. He had his opportunities to pin back his ears and rush the passer and he didn't get home enough. Edited February 12, 2016 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 IMO the Mario contract was a BAD contract to start with. It's not like he played poorly for us, but paying the kind of money we paid to bring him here was absurd. Now is an opportunity to move on from a bad deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 IMO the Mario contract was a BAD contract to start with. It's not like he played poorly for us, but paying the kind of money we paid to bring him here was absurd. Now is an opportunity to move on from a bad deal. He averaged 13 sacks/year for the first 3 years of the deal, and was the team's best run defender. It was hardly a bad deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) How many above average QBs did Von Miller play with this year? IMO the highest paid player needs to play like the highest paid player. Or at least close to the the best player. QB or not. In any sport. Or the money needs to be spent elsewhere. Edited February 12, 2016 by Manther Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 you're not seeing the point if Mario was not beating blockers AND not giving effort wouldn't anyone be better? Wouldn't a good coach do something about it?Agreed Im thinking this MW situation is too far gone to be resolved. Even if some how Rex altered the defense to fit Mario's "scheme" I think too much has been said and reported for everyone to go back to business as usual CBF Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 He averaged 13 sacks/year for the first 3 years of the deal, and was the team's best run defender. It was hardly a bad deal. Correct. With all the awful free agent signings around the league the past five or six years, the Mario signing ranks as one of the better ones. And at the time, there were very few FAs who wanted to come to Buffalo at any price. Where else were they going to spend that money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Is Mario still a talented player? Absolutely. But even if just maintained his previous 2 years production into this past season, we would still be here talking about releasing Mario. At his cap number, he should be producing at a top 5 non-QB player in the league, at that just has not happened at point in his time here. The fact of the matter is that he has the 2nd highest cap number for a defensive player and he's not close to being in that class of player, even in his best years. The writing was on the wall last off season when nothing was done with his contract as far as an extension or a restructure. That was the time to bring down his cap number and extend him a few years. But either the Bills made their decision on this or he balked at an extension. Also, it is much more likely that Mario too saw the writing on the wall with regards to his contract, realized that the Bills are not going to pay me $19 million next year, and mailed it in. He knows he'll get a nice new contract based on his reputation and he can chalk up this bad year to Rex using him incorrectly. All his scheme-hating in the media is purely so that he can take that into the off-season when he is negotiating with other teams. The Mario situation has WAY more to do with money than Rex running him out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 A bad deal? Are you serious? Mario was a good players in 2012 and all pro in 2013 and 2014. He had a bad year this year and quit on the team due to frustration. I'd say overall it was a good signing and we got our money's worth. I think Rex proved and will continue to prove he was a bad hire and it was a bad contract. Yep - we paid $64 mill for 1 decent season, 1 very good season, one first-team all pro season, and one bad season. It's not a bust contract by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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