Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The difference in this bar brawl from others is that some of the off-duty cops got hurt. This wasn't a case where the opposing combative parties got thrown out and each party went on their own way. One group got hurt to the extent where they took themselves to the hospital. This isn't your everyday type of bar brawl. It involved off-duty police members and a high profile professional football player. So whether the authorities wanted it to be or not be it became a high profile and priority case. It also has to be remembered that the party that got hurt filed police reports. So official action had to follow. This isn't an NCIS type of crime where scientific evidence is the key to the case. This is a case where witnesses are the main factor in solving (sorting out) this case. What do the parties say, what do the employees say and what do the patrons say? I don't want to jump the gun but from what I have read it doesn't seem like it is a very challenging case to solve. Let the facts speak for itself. Use some common sense and the outcome will become apparent to most. According to sources the arrest warrant is imminent and the court case will be way down the line. John, I agree this isn't your everyday type of bar brawl. But when the off-duty police officers chose to just drive themselves to hospital, then file a complaint, they did muddy the water in that back at the bar, it surely got treated as one. The point I'm trying to make, and that seems to be being missed, is that there won't be a lot of "facts" here. The complainants injuries will be facts. Which of the four guys in McCoy's party injured them, whether there was provocation, the cell phone video - Good Luck with that.. There will be security and employees, and there will be bar patrons who are advertised for and self-select to come forward. And the safe bet is, different stories will be told and the facts will be hard to sort besides "these two guys got hurt and one or more of these four guys did it" Physical evidence would be invaluable because it could potentially help to sort which witnesses are credible. In a not-too-long-past case in St Louis that was subject to nationwide scrutiny and two completely different investigations (local and federal), there were scads of eyewitnesses. Some, when confronted with discrepancies between physical evidence and their testimony, acknowledged they actually didn't see the events at all and came forward from different motives. Some testimony corresponded to the physical evidence, thus could be given more weight. That opportunity to "sort the facts" has been lost here, is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I will never think anything different than build the line FIRST....and then insert anyone who doesn't fumble the ball. I would have been fine with any other position in that trade other than RB. I also could not stand the age difference.... Exhibit A: 2015 Dallas Cowboys. Both the line and RB need to be good, and they need to be on the same page. Murray + Dallas' OL = elite running game Separately? Neither was even close to as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) this video? http://www.tmz.com/2016/02/09/lesean-mccoy-bar-fight-video-meek-mill/ No, this one: http://www.crossingbroad.com/2016/02/heres-video-of-the-recess-fight-allegedly-involving-lesean-mccoy.html Scroll down for the screen shots and frame analysis. Edited February 9, 2016 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) I saw a video last evening with no kicking or stomping - looked like a lot of pushing, shoving, yelling and flailing around. It was stated that McCoy didn't start the argument and it was hard to tell where he was in the melee. Bunch of dumb drunks in a bar fight. Will be interesting to see what happens. I'm sure Karlos, Gillislee and Boobie are interested as well. Edited February 9, 2016 by blzrul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP's Voice Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I saw a video last evening with no kicking or stomping - looked like a lot of pushing, shoving, yelling and flailing around. It was stated that McCoy didn't start the argument and it was hard to tell where he was in the melee. Bunch of dumb drunks in a bar fight. Will be interesting to see what happens. I'm sure Karlos, Gillislee and Boobie James WIlder Jr. are interested as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 No, this one: http://www.crossingbroad.com/2016/02/heres-video-of-the-recess-fight-allegedly-involving-lesean-mccoy.html Scroll down for the screen shots and frame analysis. am i missing something? i don't see anything incriminating in that video at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I think this may be a couple steps too soon. Sentenced for a bar fight? Did someone die? LOL it was a sarcastic over reaction for got to italicize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It doesn't seem like an NCIS case, but one of the prior posters made an excellent point. If I was there, and my clothes are clean, I want those clothes preserved. It may help support my point that I was not involved in kicking or punching or even near one of the victims when The blows were delivered. Again, at this point all of the discussion a speculative. But, if I'm clean in a situation like this, it doesn't hurt to be able to say so later. This isn't a NCIS type case where science is going to solve this case. If a person has clean clothes it doesn't prove anything because the clothes weren't given up immediately. You can get clothes cleaned. But it is irrelevant because the authorities weren't asking for the clothes. The police don't have to have possession of the shoes you used to stomp a person with if five witnesses point out that you were doing the stomping. The police may or may not have pictures or need it of your bruised hand in which you punched someone in the face and broke their nose and face if five witnessing give statements indicating you did. The parties involved were identified and were thrown out of the premises. So who was involved is known. I don't see this as a very complicated case. This is a witness driven case and I get the impression that the witnesses are consistent in their reporting. Some people are over-thinking this case. My recommendation is to use common-sense and stop watching the NCIS type shows. Let's wait and see how this turns out. I know what I think and I am comfortable with my premature opinion. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) am i missing something? i don't see anything incriminating in that video at all... as I said, scroll down. It certainly doesn't appear as if he was a "bystander," standing outside of the scrum. At best, he appears to be (at least) an "accomplice." As I said earlier, it's unfortunate for McCoy that these guys were cops. Edited February 9, 2016 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) John, I agree this isn't your everyday type of bar brawl. But when the off-duty police officers chose to just drive themselves to hospital, then file a complaint, they did muddy the water in that back at the bar, it surely got treated as one. The point I'm trying to make, and that seems to be being missed, is that there won't be a lot of "facts" here. The complainants injuries will be facts. Which of the four guys in McCoy's party injured them, whether there was provocation, the cell phone video - Good Luck with that.. There will be security and employees, and there will be bar patrons who are advertised for and self-select to come forward. And the safe bet is, different stories will be told and the facts will be hard to sort besides "these two guys got hurt and one or more of these four guys did it" Physical evidence would be invaluable because it could potentially help to sort which witnesses are credible. In a not-too-long-past case in St Louis that was subject to nationwide scrutiny and two completely different investigations (local and federal), there were scads of eyewitnesses. Some, when confronted with discrepancies between physical evidence and their testimony, acknowledged they actually didn't see the events at all and came forward from different motives. Some testimony corresponded to the physical evidence, thus could be given more weight. That opportunity to "sort the facts" has been lost here, is my point. To illustrate the physical evidence points imagine if a witness says "I saw person A kick the victim." Then imagine there is blood on the shoes of person A, and that bloopd matches the blood of the victim who was kicked. That's a big problem for person A. Edited February 9, 2016 by BuffaloPowerEye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Exhibit A: 2015 Dallas Cowboys. Both the line and RB need to be good, and they need to be on the same page. Murray + Dallas' OL = elite running game Separately? Neither was even close to as good. Exactly. See every single running back in Denver during the Elway (as QB) era. Sammy Morris, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Terrell Davis, to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 am i missing something? i don't see anything incriminating in that video at all... It looks like the person they are trying to prove is McCoy... is trying to hold another guy back from the pile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It looks like the person they are trying to prove is McCoy... is trying to hold another guy back from the pile? right, i don't see anything incriminating in those screen shots. the tmz video, on the other hand, he definitely throws A punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Exactly. See every single running back in Denver during the Elway (as QB) era. Sammy Morris, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Terrell Davis, to name a few. I don't think Sammy Morris was ever a Bronco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 right, i don't see anything incriminating in those screen shots. the tmz video, on the other hand, he definitely throws A punch. yeah, just saw that one. Doesnt look good Can we start pleading the ideal gas law? Preponderance of the evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 right, i don't see anything incriminating in those screen shots. the tmz video, on the other hand, he definitely throws A punch. Ya know, I hadn't seen the TMZ video. That one is worse. Thanks for flagging it. yeah, just saw that one. Doesnt look good Can we start pleading the ideal gas law? Preponderance of the evidence? LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 John, I agree this isn't your everyday type of bar brawl. But when the off-duty police officers chose to just drive themselves to hospital, then file a complaint, they did muddy the water in that back at the bar, it surely got treated as one. The point I'm trying to make, and that seems to be being missed, is that there won't be a lot of "facts" here. The complainants injuries will be facts. Which of the four guys in McCoy's party injured them, whether there was provocation, the cell phone video - Good Luck with that.. There will be security and employees, and there will be bar patrons who are advertised for and self-select to come forward. And the safe bet is, different stories will be told and the facts will be hard to sort besides "these two guys got hurt and one or more of these four guys did it" Physical evidence would be invaluable because it could potentially help to sort which witnesses are credible. In a not-too-long-past case in St Louis that was subject to nationwide scrutiny and two completely different investigations (local and federal), there were scads of eyewitnesses. Some, when confronted with discrepancies between physical evidence and their testimony, acknowledged they actually didn't see the events at all and came forward from different motives. Some testimony corresponded to the physical evidence, thus could be given more weight. That opportunity to "sort the facts" has been lost here, is my point. I don't agree with you that because the victims took themselves to the hospital that it changed the dynamics of this case. This is going to be a witness driven case. If the victims' claims match the employee and patron witnesses claims then it is a solid case. I think you are over-thinking this case. It should be noted that if a victim instigated the situation that doesn't give the aggrieved party the right to stomp the living daylights out of him. If a neighbor yells at your kid you don't have the right to take a sledge hammer and hit him in the head. A proportional response is very relevant in this case. Very often in a bar brawl no one is totally right but that doesn't mean one isn't more wrong. Let's allow the process to run its course. It should become very evident what happened when the facts come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 For all of the speculation about the cops being at fault, it does appear to be the case (from the reports so far) that the cops were the actual purchasers of the champagne, not McCoy's party. If true, then trying to take (i.e., steal) a bottle from them was a low move. They're already in the wrong from the get-go. If they used force to take property in the state of NY, this would constitute a Robbery. The rule of thumb for Robbery is forcible taking of property. The force can be used or threatened, and must be immediate. I am NOT saying this happened. I don't know what happened, but even the lowest degree of robbery is a very serious crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 yeah, just saw that one. Doesnt look good Can we start pleading the ideal gas law? Preponderance of the evidence? You know, champagne does have gas, and open bottles could have impacted the video imagery. Shady should get that MIT guy on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Exhibit A: 2015 Dallas Cowboys. Both the line and RB need to be good, and they need to be on the same page. Murray + Dallas' OL = elite running game Separately? Neither was even close to as good. I think injuries to Tony Romo and Dez Bryant have a lot to do with the lack of success Dallas' in running game this season. It's pretty simple to stop the run when there is no passing threat, no matter how good the RB and OL are. Paying a RB huge money is almost never worth it, but IMO if you are going to it should be your own guy that you draft, develop into a star player and keep. But unless the guy is the next Thurman, Barry, Emmitt type player I would let him walk and just draft a RB in the mid rounds who I can get 90% of the production for next to nothing in cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts