Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Each time you draft a QB every year, you are neglecting an area of need that you could have used that pick to address CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Let's keep doing it in our own winning fashion! Show me a team that won your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 To draft a QB every year you have to keep 3 QBs on the roster. For example if we had been using this model right along we would have the current starter, current back up, last years draftee on our roster right now. We draft a QB in a round where ever there is good value. In training camp the coaches "should" know by now if the back up is going to supplant the current starter. He has been in the system for 2 years now. If he does the starter moves to the back up. Whomever the back up is now is in competition with last year's rookie. If Last year's rookie is better the back up is let go. If the back up is better then last year's rookie must be better the this year's rookie or he is gone. Coaches should be able to tell pretty quickly if a QB has something. I mean Rex was saying pretty early in camp that Tyrod had a good chance to win the starting job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 To draft a QB every year you have to keep 3 QBs on the roster. For example if we had been using this model right along we would have the current starter, current back up, last years draftee on our roster right now. We draft a QB in a round where ever there is good value. In training camp the coaches "should" know by now if the back up is going to supplant the current starter. He has been in the system for 2 years now. If he does the starter moves to the back up. Whomever the back up is now is in competition with last year's rookie. If Last year's rookie is better the back up is let go. If the back up is better then last year's rookie must be better the this year's rookie or he is gone. Coaches should be able to tell pretty quickly if a QB has something. I mean Rex was saying pretty early in camp that Tyrod had a good chance to win the starting job. Except people are not robots. They don't develop to a consistent pattern at a consistent rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I used to be on the every-year-until-you-find-the-right-one bandwagon. But developing a young QB can become problematic if a new QB joins the squad every year. Plus I think there's an advantage to leaving room on the roster for an experienced backup. Some other posters have given great examples about the Pats and Packers. The best organizations draft QBs, even when they have a solid starter. Every 2 or 3 years sounds about right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Show me a team that won your way. "Bill's Way": "As far as drafting a qb every year, I am all for it. Not always in the first round mind you but the position means SO much these days it should be the top priority." FTR I am NOT for drafting a QB every year, I think it should be every 2 years or every 3 years. But it should be a heck of a lot more often than the Bills have done so. But as far as showing you a team that won doing it that way (drafting QB every year), I don't even have to dig or sweat. Between 1992 and 1999 (7 years), Green Bay drafted a QB every year except 1 (6 QB in 7 years - 7 QB in 7 years if you count the 1st round pick traded for Favre in '92). In 1992, record was 9-7 but they did not go to playoffs. In 1993, they went to the Division round and thereafter went to playoffs every year until 1999, including 2 11-5 records, 2 13-3 records, a conference championship, a Superbowl win, and a Superbowl loss. Edited February 2, 2016 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If you draft a new QB every year, there is pressure to play them, which means often putting players out there before they are ready, which reduces your chances for success, which makes you want another QB next draft, and the cycle just repeats itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Sigh...this again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostradumbass Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Would you give up players like Preston Brown, Seantrel Henderson, Kyle Williams and Karlos Williams in order to roll the dice on John Skelton or Ryan Lindley? As unpopular an idea as it is, there are still 25 other positions on a football team you have to fill. Name four players you would willingly package for a franchise QB right now... Until you have a QB you have nothing, not making the QB position a priority is the single biggest determinant in the Bills failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Except people are not robots. They don't develop to a consistent pattern at a consistent rate. People do develop at different rates, but how long do you want to wait to see if someone is a bust? My scenario gives them 2 years to show that they have something worth investing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The problem you may experience is say it takes 10 years of drafting a QB every year before you finally find the right one (and as many busts as there are, this is a very real possibility). By then, since you've focused so much on QB that you're depleted in other areas. Say one of those areas is o-line. Once you finally get the great QB, maybe he leads you to wins (like Andrew Luck's first 3 years) or maybe your depleted o-line gets him killed (like Andrew Luck this year). I fear the latter happening so much that I just don't think this is a good strategy even in knowing how vital a QB is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 People do develop at different rates, but how long do you want to wait to see if someone is a bust? My scenario gives them 2 years to show that they have something worth investing in. Ah.... now that is a different question... can you spot a bust quickly? Sure. Can you spot a sure fire winner quickly? Sure. But what about the dozens and dozens of NFL Quarterbacks that fall in between? So let's look at the examples: Early round QBs If I draft Andrew Luck do I know within two years that I have my guy? Yes - and even sooner than that. If I draft Johnny Manziel do I know within two years that I don't? Yes I probably know within two years. But what if I draft Ryan Tannehill?? 4 years in and he still polarises seasoned NFL observers, casual NFL fans and die hard Dolphin fans. Would you cut ties with him after his rookie year? His second year? What about his alleged breakout 3rd year? Now? Mid round QBs If I draft Russell Wilson do I know within two years that I have my guy? Yes. If I draft Tyler Wilson do I know within two years that I don't? Yes - the Raiders knew he was a bust by the end of camp and cut him despite investing a 4th rounder. But what if I draft Kirk Cousins? Again - 4 years in he has been a starter for at least part of 3 of those years.... do I know now with him? When did I start knowing? It just is not that simple. You need to see something in camp and practice and you need to then develop it and give it game time.... I just do not think you get that with the draft every year and cut the guy you drafted 2 years ago unless he is your guy strategy. I am in favour of taking a shot on a Quarterback almost every year but some of those shots you are not taking expecting to find a starting Quarterback and cycling through guys hoping you stumble on a Luck (better get the 1st overall pick in the right year) or a Wilson is not a strategy. It is throwing darts at a wall and hoping to hit the bullseye. Finding a Quarterback comes down to these three steps for me: - thorough and high quality evaluation - taking your shots when they are there in the draft - time, patience and development A lot of the teams who have franchise guys outside of the absolute elite 3 or 4 have had to do that and in fact even the Steelers did the first 3 years with Ben. They made it easier on him by having excellent talent around him which bought them time, patience and even a Superbowl. The followed the TT model the first two years of him being the game manager who made the odd splash play and then stood by him after a bad 3rd year when they first started putting more of the game on his shoulders. I am not convinced that in your model you end up standing by a Roethlisberger or a (as the Chargers didn't) Drew Brees or even possibly an Eli Manning although his trajectory was a little different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Until the Ravens landed Flacco they drafted 7 QBs in an 8 year stretch. After Flacco they still drafted Tryod. They are the only team this century to break the Manning/Brady/Rothlisberger stranglehold on the AFC. I think they have been smarter than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Until the Ravens landed Flacco they drafted 7 QBs in an 8 year stretch. After Flacco they still drafted Tryod. They are the only team this century to break the Manning/Brady/Rothlisberger stranglehold on the AFC. I think they have been smarter than the Bills. I wouldn't doubt that. You have to take your shots when they are there. The Ravens were not wedded to "must take a Quarterback" but when the shots were there they took them. A lot of those were those backup types I was talking about but if one is there you gotta take that shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 With only 7 draft picks and 3 are in the premium rounds, it is impractical. Look at how many years whole QB draft classes are a bust. Only draft if the guy is a quality player. Reaching puts your franchise back. Look at Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I don't think it's practical or feasible. I submit for your consideration the Green Bay Packers as a model of a perennially successful franchise. Since 1992, they have been to the playoffs 18 out of 24 years, with no playoffless-stretch longer than 2 years (it must be specified there's a degree of divisional luck there, since they've made playoffs 3 times with a record of 7 losses) The Packers have been blessed with long-term great QB play from Favre and from Rodgers. During that 24 year stretch, they have drafted 14 QB (15 if you count the 1992 #19 pick they traded for Favre). They were particularly active in the early 90's, where they did draft a QB almost every year (including 1992!) but none higher than 5th round. In the late 90s on, they settled down to about every 3 years, including a 1st (Rodgers) and a 2nd round pick. They have drafted 2 QB who had substantial trade value for them - Mark Brunnell (5) and Matt Hasselback (6). Brunell brought them a 3rd and a 5th, Hasselbeck a 7 place move-up in the 1st round plus swapping their 7th for a 3rd. So it's not always a waste of a pick. In the same time span, despite having a starter who was aging and taking wear then NOT having a starter, the Bills have used only 6 picks on QB. In a 9 year stretch from 1995 to 2004 we drafted no QB. This would put us in the same draft space as perennial championship winners (NOT) like the Texans. IMHO the Bills should draft a QB this year, and continue to do so every 2nd or 3rd year. Hopeful - nice post bud, and couldn't agree more. Every 2-3 years tops a QB in some round would continue to help this team. As you mentioned, if we have excellent scouting they will have trade value down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 2015 3rd Bryce Petty 2014 4th Logan Thomas 2013 3rd Matt Barkley 2012 3rd Rusell Wilson 2011 3rd Ryan Mallet 2010 3rd Colt McCoy 2009 we traded 3rd to dallas and no qb's taken after us in 4th 2008 3rd Kevin O'Connell 2007 3rd Erent Tdwards I went back to 2007 and looked at every years 3rd round pick, and 1 fourth round pick when we did not have a 3rd. I found the next QB drafted and put him in our position. So, looking at this we would likely have our starter, Wilson. a backup with Mallet or Thomas and perhaps whatever Bryce Petty could be. Imagine the 2015 camp where Barkley battles Thomas and/or Mallet for the backup? Hopeful - nice post bud, and couldn't agree more. Every 2-3 years tops a QB in some round would continue to help this team. As you mentioned, if we have excellent scouting they will have trade value down the road. bud? well, she's a girl, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Or you could argue that they wasted many draft picks in doing that with no return. To me the logistics of implementing a plan like this makes in impractical. Questions raised What round are you drafting these guys? I'd assume it varies over the years. If you draft someone in the 1st three rounds, and maybe even #4, you can't pull the old cut him and bring him back on the PS as likely someone else would grab him. So now keeping him active. With a plan like this you likely would also need a veteran backup to come in if whoever is your starter gets hurt. So now you have a starter a vet backup and at least one of or two of these guys you're still trying to figure out. To make something like this work, you'd have to keep four or maybe even five QB's on your 53 to give them time. How do you find time to develop them? Heard in many places once training camp and pre-season are over backup QB's may get about a half dozen reps per week with the starters. Ant that's likely the #2 guy. You're #3 or 4 will hardly get a snap. By the time you may have figured out a guy might be good his contract is up and he leaves. I think the better way is as the Bill's have done is bring a guy in give him a couple of years where you're giving him every advantage you can to become good and see what happens. If it doesn't work, then move on to plan B. You could make the argument that one thing that hurt TT this past off-season was a three man QB competition took time away from his development. Doing that evey year would only make it worse. And if you don't do it, you'll never have enough info to determine if the others can make it or not. The issue is the Bills, like many teams in the league can't find the franchise guy becasue there aren't enough floating around. If there was every team would have one. Until the Ravens landed Flacco they drafted 7 QBs in an 8 year stretch. After Flacco they still drafted Tryod. They are the only team this century to break the Manning/Brady/Rothlisberger stranglehold on the AFC. I think they have been smarter than the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Until the Ravens landed Flacco they drafted 7 QBs in an 8 year stretch. After Flacco they still drafted Tryod. They are the only team this century to break the Manning/Brady/Rothlisberger stranglehold on the AFC. I think they have been smarter than the Bills. Good info - thanks. Didn't realize this ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) Until the Ravens landed Flacco they drafted 7 QBs in an 8 year stretch. After Flacco they still drafted Tryod. They are the only team this century to break the Manning/Brady/Rothlisberger stranglehold on the AFC. I think they have been smarter than the Bills. Raiders with Gannon? Edited February 3, 2016 by justnzane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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