Skins to sign K. Cousins 17mill yr. how much is TT worth

[BarleyNY]

...and it's fine to feel that way as long as we understand what waiting means. If you wait, you are probably talking about doing so at the expense of guys like Woods, Glenn, Bradham, possibly Gilmore. That extra $7M a year and $20M-$25M of guaranteed more that it will cost you is at the direct loss to certain guys. You have to weigh everything and cant simply say "it's been 7 games" and make that decision in a vacuum. If he starts the rest of the year at this level, the Bills will be trying desperately to extend him.

Extending him early will cost us too - and sooner. Plus we might not even see a good return on that if he flames out/fails to live up to his deal. No, I'll wait and pay him fair market if he hits. That's fine. Our choices are:

- Wait and possibly pay more, which will be market value

- Pay him above his market early in hopes that we will get a deal and save some money, but also take the chance we might be overpaying him substantially

 

I really do see your point, but I haven't seen enough and there is time. I wait and see what Taylor does. And here's the reason: What he hasn't proven he can do is the toughest part of being a quarterback. I really hope he makes it, but I'm skeptical.

[Punching Bag]

Agreed.

 

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that these numbers are being floated out there right after his recent quality performances, including the Saints game. He's got a smart agent.

 

 

Yes. Here is a link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tyrod-taylor/

 

80% of Snaps: $1M bonus

He lost 2 weeks of snaps (12,5^) of games but because EJ took a lot more snaps per game due to style of play/game TT has last more than 12% of snaps.

 

If he loses more snaps to injuries he could drop under 80% of snaps.

[The Jokeman]

 

80% of Snaps: $1M bonus

He lost 2 weeks of snaps (12,5^) of games but because EJ took a lot more snaps per game due to style of play/game TT has last more than 12% of snaps.

 

If he loses more snaps to injuries he could drop under 80% of snaps.

With Harvin likely gone we can afford to give Tyrod a small bump in salary yet it wouldn't shock me to see Whaley take a QB early in this draft if a guy like Cook happens to fall to us.

[Kirby Jackson]

Extending him early will cost us too - and sooner. Plus we might not even see a good return on that if he flames out/fails to live up to his deal. No, I'll wait and pay him fair market if he hits. That's fine. Our choices are:

- Wait and possibly pay more, which will be market value

- Pay him above his market early in hopes that we will get a deal and save some money, but also take the chance we might be overpaying him substantially

 

I really do see your point, but I haven't seen enough and there is time. I wait and see what Taylor does. And here's the reason: What he hasn't proven he can do is the toughest part of being a quarterback. I really hope he makes it, but I'm skeptical.

That's more than fair. I was trying trying to hedge (not to you) but to those that will be mad if the Bills offer $15M, mad if he then costs $20M, and mad if we lose guys. We can't have everything but there will be people here that will want that. You have taken a stance and it's totally reasonable. Edited November 19, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[JohnC]

 

 

But they are not the Quarterbacks that specifically came to mind watching those two games back to back this evening..... it was someone we all know much better than them. It was Ryan Fitzpatrick. And to me that is what Kirk Cousins is at this moment in time. He is the best backup in the league or the last starting Quarterback you can be at least efficient with. Is there room for growth? Possibly. Do I see anything there to convince me there is enough potential to sink $17m a year in him? No I don't and if I worked for the Redskins Pro-Personnel Department I would be making this point day after day after day.

If Cousins plays well enough in his remaining games this season that will interest other teams to offer him a good contract then where does it leave the Skins at the qb position? RGIII is going to be dispatched after this season. McCoy is the backup and he is less than mediocre as a backup. Would the Skins prefer taking a qb prospect and count on him to move the rebuilding team forward? I really don't think so.

 

As I stated in the prior post the current HC likes Cousins and wants to work with him. The GM who was involved with the 49ers and Seahawks believes in building the roster in order to enhance the prospects for its starting qb.

 

If Cousins steadily improves as the season advances he will be an intriguing target for other qb starved teams. He certainly will not be an elite qb in this league but I believe that he can be a credible starter. That in itself is a major leap forward for a team that has lacked direction and has not moved forward for a very long time.

 

The GM and staff of the Skins have to make a decision at where they are at and not on where they wish they were at. I contend that they are going to move forward with Cousins. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Starting QBs get a lot of money, But all that matters are guarantees.

[GunnerBill]

If Cousins plays well enough in his remaining games this season that will interest other teams to offer him a good contract then where does it leave the Skins at the qb position? RGIII is going to be dispatched after this season. McCoy is the backup and he is less than mediocre as a backup. Would the Skins prefer taking a qb prospect and count on him to move the rebuilding team forward? I really don't think so.

 

As I stated in the prior post the current HC likes Cousins and wants to work with him. The GM who was involved with the 49ers and Seahawks believes in building the roster in order to enhance the prospects for its starting qb.

 

If Cousins steadily improves as the season advances he will be an intriguing target for other qb starved teams. He certainly will not be an elite qb in this league but I believe that he can be a credible starter. That in itself is a major leap forward for a team that has lacked direction and has not moved forward for a very long time.

 

The GM and staff of the Skins have to make a decision at where they are at and not on where they wish they were at. I contend that they are going to move forward with Cousins. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I am sure Gruden does like him and I said as much. He is a Gruden style of Quarterback. But if they sign him to a $17m deal then based on what I see I contend that they will be sitting here in 3 years where we were with Fitz. Nice guy and a better QB than what had come before... but ultimately not a starter you are going to be able to win consistently with.

 

If I could get Cousins for $10-12m a year I'd be content to roll wih him whilst behind the scenes I search for a better option. At $17m I would shake his hand let another team over pay him and move on.

Edited November 19, 2015 by GunnerBill

[dayman]

does the NFL want football to turn into touch not tackle?

Why else is it promoting a passing league so blatently ? No reason why one position should be so disproportionately paid.

 

supply/demand

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Lets see how Cousins does against the Panthers.

 

Carolina D ppg - 6th best NO dead last

Carolina D ypg - 10th best NO dead last

Carolina D ypp - 2nd best NO dead last

[BarleyNY]

80% of Snaps: $1M bonus

He lost 2 weeks of snaps (12,5^) of games but because EJ took a lot more snaps per game due to style of play/game TT has last more than 12% of snaps.

 

If he loses more snaps to injuries he could drop under 80% of snaps.

I was talking about the agent for Cousins, not TT.

That's more than fair. I was trying trying to hedge (not to you) but to those that will be mad if the Bills offer $15M, mad if he then costs $20M, and mad if we lose guys. We can't have everything but there will be people here that will want that. You have taken a stance and it's totally reasonable.

As is yours. Just different appetites for risk in this case. Here's hoping your path is the smart one.

[Bill from NYC]

Anyone else starting to think that Gilmore might be a goner with the emergence of Darby?

I think that posters often turn a blind eye as to what Gilmore would/will cost the Bills next season. It is depressing. Here is the contract of Darelle Revis:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis/

 

He's got 16 million in 2015, 17 million in 2016, and 7 million in 2017 GUARANTEED!!!!!!!!!! And you can bet that if he is still playing at or even near this level in 2 or 3 years, he will hold out for more guarantees.

 

When Revis signed this deal he was approx. 30, and coming off serious surgery. Gilmore is much younger, healthier, and the cap is going up, not down. He could easily get a deal where he is paid in the vicinity of 15 million per season. I for one do not think he is worth this kind of money/cap space.

 

Hey, maybe he IS worth it, but not imho.

[GunnerBill]

I think that posters often turn a blind eye as to what Gilmore would/will cost the Bills next season. It is depressing. Here is the contract of Darelle Revis:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis/

 

He's got 16 million in 2015, 17 million in 2016, and 7 million in 2017 GUARANTEED!!!!!!!!!! And you can bet that if he is still playing at or even near this level in 2 or 3 years, he will hold out for more guarantees.

 

When Revis signed this deal he was approx. 30, and coming off serious surgery. Gilmore is much younger, healthier, and the cap is going up, not down. He could easily get a deal where he is paid in the vicinity of 15 million per season. I for one do not think he is worth this kind of money/cap space.

 

Hey, maybe he IS worth it, but not imho.

 

Gilmore isn't going to get Revis money. I think the Bills will be able to extend him for $12-13m a year - Sherman (who in my mind is a better comparison) and has a Superbowl ring got an average of $14m a year. $56m overall with $40m guaranteed.

[JohnC]

I think that posters often turn a blind eye as to what Gilmore would/will cost the Bills next season. It is depressing. Here is the contract of Darelle Revis:

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/darrelle-revis/

 

He's got 16 million in 2015, 17 million in 2016, and 7 million in 2017 GUARANTEED!!!!!!!!!! And you can bet that if he is still playing at or even near this level in 2 or 3 years, he will hold out for more guarantees.

 

When Revis signed this deal he was approx. 30, and coming off serious surgery. Gilmore is much younger, healthier, and the cap is going up, not down. He could easily get a deal where he is paid in the vicinity of 15 million per season. I for one do not think he is worth this kind of money/cap space.

 

Hey, maybe he IS worth it, but not imho.

You know better than most that I have from the beginning been an advocate for Gilmore. I contend that he is now a top tier talent. Is he worth the amount of money you have described? No. The question one has to ask is whether the percentage of cap space he consumes is related to how he impacts the defense. Don't misinterpret what I am saying. He is a terrific corner but if a were going to give that amount of money I would rather give it to a player at a position that impacts/elevates the rest of the unit. An example of my point is Mario Williams playing at an elite level that impacts the rest of his line mates and the defense. (I'm aware that Mario is on the downside of the mountain and wouldn't warrant such a grandiose figure.)

[Coach Tuesday]

You know better than most that I have from the beginning been an advocate for Gilmore. I contend that he is now a top tier talent. Is he worth the amount of money you have described? No. The question one has to ask is whether the percentage of cap space he consumes is related to how he impacts the defense. Don't misinterpret what I am saying. He is a terrific corner but if a were going to give that amount of money I would rather give it to a player at a position that impacts/elevates the rest of the unit. An example of my point is Mario Williams playing at an elite level that impacts the rest of his line mates and the defense. (I'm aware that Mario is on the downside of the mountain and wouldn't warrant such a grandiose figure.)

 

I kind of agree. Gilmore is a weird player to me. He is clearly a top-tier cover corner but he doesn't really excel at any one thing. He's not a big tackler. He doesn't get too many INTs. He lacks elite closing speed (though he's plenty fast). He seems to lose focus and lose his man at least 2-3 times per game. Yet he's a student of the game, understands routes and how to defend them, and generally is very difficult to play against.

 

Darby, on the other hand, seems to have elite cover skills - he is on his man like a glove at all times.

[Bill from NYC]

Gilmore isn't going to get Revis money. I think the Bills will be able to extend him for $12-13m a year - Sherman (who in my mind is a better comparison) and has a Superbowl ring got an average of $14m a year. $56m overall with $40m guaranteed.

Sherman was a great comparison and actually strengthens the point I am trying to make.

 

The cap will go UP, not down GB. And 40 million guaranteed is actually more than, or the same as what Revis got.

 

Would you be ok giving the Sherman contract to Gilmore?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Bill from NYC

[JohnC]

 

I kind of agree. Gilmore is a weird player to me. He is clearly a top-tier cover corner but he doesn't really excel at any one thing. He's not a big tackler. He doesn't get too many INTs. He lacks elite closing speed (though he's plenty fast). He seems to lose focus and lose his man at least 2-3 times per game. Yet he's a student of the game, understands routes and how to defend them, and generally is very difficult to play against.

 

Darby, on the other hand, seems to have elite cover skills - he is on his man like a glove at all times.

You make an excellent point. What makes Gilmore a unique corner is his size. However, what prevents him from being an even more impacting player is his lack of ability to catch the ball. He has good ball skills but doesn't finish plays with interceptions. If he did his value would definitely go higher.

 

As you noted Darby has good cover skills but what sets him apart is that he goes after the ball and retrieves it. He attacks the ball as well as CB I have seen in a long time. That is a trait that Gilmore doesn't have.

[Coach Tuesday]

You make an excellent point. What makes Gilmore a unique corner is his size. However, what prevents him from being an even more impacting player is his lack of ability to catch the ball. He has good ball skills but doesn't finish plays with interceptions. If he did his value would definitely go higher.

 

As you noted Darby has good cover skills but what sets him apart is that he goes after the ball and retrieves it. He attacks the ball as well as CB I have seen in a long time. That is a trait that Gilmore doesn't have.

 

Yes - but Darby can do that because of his elite closing speed. It really sets him apart. He could be a great one.

[GunnerBill]

Sherman was a great comparison and actually strengthens the point I am trying to make.

 

The cap will go UP, not down GB. And 40 million guaranteed is actually more than, or the same as what Revis got.

 

Would you be ok giving the Sherman contract to Gilmore?

 

I'd be fine with the guaranteed money - yes. I'd want to get him for $12-13m a year and think that is achievable. As good as he is when I look at the hype level he get league wide (relatively low) and think of GMs comparing him to the deals for the big name elite corners out there I'd be surprised if he were to match Sherman on the open market. If he wants $14m plus I'd start to consider him expensive for our tastes.

 

EDIT: I also think and we should keep this in mind, that Rex will be pushing us to move our money backwards in the defense. That is how he has always done it. Had elite, highly paid players in the secondary, with cheaper role playing edge rushers. Wouldn't surprise me to see the Bills pay Gilmore and move on from Kyle and/or Mario to free up space.

Edited November 19, 2015 by GunnerBill

[Maddog69]

it would be a mistake to give Cousins that kind of money and it would be a mistake to re-do Taylor's contract at this point. Be patient. Let the season play out. If he plays well, what I would try to do if I were the Bills is to increase the guaranteed money in his current 3 years deal and try to remove the voidable 3yd option. Give him something like $15-20m guaranteed money over the next two seasons and then if he's great next year, look to make big money extension before year 3 starts.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Maddog69

[John from Riverside]

Extending him early will cost us too - and sooner. Plus we might not even see a good return on that if he flames out/fails to live up to his deal. No, I'll wait and pay him fair market if he hits. That's fine. Our choices are:

- Wait and possibly pay more, which will be market value

- Pay him above his market early in hopes that we will get a deal and save some money, but also take the chance we might be overpaying him substantially

 

I really do see your point, but I haven't seen enough and there is time. I wait and see what Taylor does. And here's the reason: What he hasn't proven he can do is the toughest part of being a quarterback. I really hope he makes it, but I'm skeptical.

We have him for 2 years on this contract......but I def would not wait for 2 years to do the deal

 

The end of the year.....that is where I make the decision. It gives us a years worth of tape to evaluate him and see if he is picking up the concepts......