Defense is still average

[FireChan]

To be fair...the defense does not "suck"

 

They most certainly are not as good as they were last year......and that is a huge problem

They suck compared to last year.

[Kelly the Dog]

I agree with a lot of what is being said late in this thread. But I also think that people are somewhat missing a chronology of events that changed things as well. The Bills last year did not really face the way teams are attacking us now, except Brady who does it against everyone. When we went against Rodgers and Manning and others and basically shut them down the were dropping back and setting up and passing like they always did and we got to them.

 

This year we signed Hughes and brought the band all back together and everyone feared the defense because of the pressure they would cause. The first game we were all over Luck who tried to play his game and we buried the Colts who did nothing til the game was over. Then we played Brady and he got the ball off even faster than he normally did. There was no way to sack him and we played lousy defense (Rex was outcoached and had a crappy gameplay and didn't press either or hit guys off the line).

 

Then we played Miami and we buried them too because Tannehill tried to do what he does and he got killed. The fourth game is where it all changed. The Giants and Eli took the Brady playbook and passed way before anyone to get to him. Again we weren't able to get pressure or sacks but no team would have. And again Rex and the defense wasn't prepared for it and they chewed us up with passes off in 1-2 seconds.

 

Since then, no team drops back and passes like teams did to us last year, except the Bengals who were making insane catches downfield and Dalton was on fire and he is playing at an all pro level and they are undefeated.

 

The defense looks to be in disarray at times but 90% of the yards the Fins got were dinks and dunks.

 

This is not absolving Rex in any way. He has not had a good year coaching defense on this team. He's made a lot of tactical and game plan errors as much or more than scheme errors. But for the most part teams are not letting the front four get to them like they did last year and are attacking us different from the way they did last year which is a bigger reason for no sacks than Rex's scheme.

 

The players are getting frustrated. The linebackers are not making plays. We are missing some cogs although that is no excuse at all.

 

But teams are not playing us the way they used to because of our front four. That's a bigger reason for no sacks than Rex. The Rex problem is that he is not putting the players in the right positions or gameplans to combat that fact and the players are not ready for the plays because of the new system.

[aristocrat]

Our defense has played 4 offenses in the top ten in the league. Now down the stretch we have the jets(14), new(5), kc(25), hous(12), phi(13), dal(20), was(29). Will this turn into our defense putting up better showings? Perhaps. Last year down the stretch is when this defense started putting up some real shut down performances. I hope playing some of the lower end offenses will get this defense going.

[Beerball]

Nothing specific to sports, this happens every day in the "real world." It's much easier to make your company fit your style rather than adapt yourself to what your people do best.

[John from Riverside]

They suck compared to last year.

Then that is a matter of perspective...they dont "suck" compared to the NFL this year

 

I do understand what your saying.....

[norton20]

Average and mediocre mean the same thing -- quite literally.

 

OK. I'll give you that. This defense is below average and above terrible.

[yungmack]

They suck compared to last year.

They also suck in comparison with most of the other D's in the league. In most critical categories, they are in the bottom 20%. That's not average, that's not mediocre, that's suckitude.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Over at 538 http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-explains-the-carolina-panthers-rise/, Neil Paine has been using a method to evaluate teams.. He uses the expected pts from Football Reference, scales everything and rates pass off, run off, pass def, run def. He uses 100 as average, above that say 110-130 etc is good, 80-90 not so much.

 

I made a couple calculations and added a schedule adjustment. Cut to the chase and....

 

the 2014 Bills were 132 rating in pass defense, #1 in the NFL; we were 106 in run defense, again good

 

the 2015 Bills are 111 rating in pass defense, I was bit surprised; the run defense is 91, not so great.

 

These metrics show the defense has dropped approximately 15% in performance to last year in both defending the pass and run.

Edited November 10, 2015 by The Thurmanator

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Rex is stubborn, but so are the players. You said that the players are used to the changes in defensive schemes. That they are, but doesn't mean that they were up for the challenge of each change. They definitely played worse when the defense didn't highlight their special skills.

 

I'm not going to be stupid and claim that Rex's scheme is working to perfection, but I understand where he's going with this over the long term. Tell me exactly where a half-assed approach to changing a defensive scheme has worked?

 

I think his ego is big enough to sacrifice a few games to prove his point and keep hammering his system into place. That's a sign of a coach who's secure in his job for now. You are right, Mario is as good as gone after this year. I think he's pulling the same disappearing act he perfected in Wanny's defenses. Of course lining him up wider plays more to his strengths. But I also expect a $15 million pro-bowl end to consistently win one on one matchups with average RTs at least once a game. Case in point, Houston only needed to turn it up for one series last night against much better OLs than what Mario has faced this year, and that sealed the Bears' win.

 

I'm not absolving Rex at all, but much too little attention is paid to poor individual performance by the marquee players.

 

When you have 2 gap responsibility you basically become a read and react defender.

 

That is slowing down the rush.

 

As are the tight OL splits created by the bunched defensive front.

I agree with a lot of what is being said late in this thread. But I also think that people are somewhat missing a chronology of events that changed things as well. The Bills last year did not really face the way teams are attacking us now, except Brady who does it against everyone. When we went against Rodgers and Manning and others and basically shut them down the were dropping back and setting up and passing like they always did and we got to them.

 

This year we signed Hughes and brought the band all back together and everyone feared the defense because of the pressure they would cause. The first game we were all over Luck who tried to play his game and we buried the Colts who did nothing til the game was over. Then we played Brady and he got the ball off even faster than he normally did. There was no way to sack him and we played lousy defense (Rex was outcoached and had a crappy gameplay and didn't press either or hit guys off the line).

 

Then we played Miami and we buried them too because Tannehill tried to do what he does and he got killed. The fourth game is where it all changed. The Giants and Eli took the Brady playbook and passed way before anyone to get to him. Again we weren't able to get pressure or sacks but no team would have. And again Rex and the defense wasn't prepared for it and they chewed us up with passes off in 1-2 seconds.

 

Since then, no team drops back and passes like teams did to us last year, except the Bengals who were making insane catches downfield and Dalton was on fire and he is playing at an all pro level and they are undefeated.

 

The defense looks to be in disarray at times but 90% of the yards the Fins got were dinks and dunks.

 

This is not absolving Rex in any way. He has not had a good year coaching defense on this team. He's made a lot of tactical and game plan errors as much or more than scheme errors. But for the most part teams are not letting the front four get to them like they did last year and are attacking us different from the way they did last year which is a bigger reason for no sacks than Rex's scheme.

 

The players are getting frustrated. The linebackers are not making plays. We are missing some cogs although that is no excuse at all.

 

But teams are not playing us the way they used to because of our front four. That's a bigger reason for no sacks than Rex. The Rex problem is that he is not putting the players in the right positions or gameplans to combat that fact and the players are not ready for the plays because of the new system.

 

I gotta disagree about the pressure.

 

Even in the Colts and Dolphins games their pass rush was a shadow of it's former self.

 

Rex defenses rarely produce big individual sack numbers. Maybin lead the Jets in sacks one season.

 

This is a two gap attack now.....and they really can't cut loose until after their run responsibilities have been met.

[Boatdrinks]

To be fair...the defense does not "suck"

 

They most certainly are not as good as they were last year......and that is a huge problem

To be fair , Schwartz didn't come in and say " I think I'll run a scheme that suits my guys the best". He did what every coach does- he ran HIS system. It worked, but so did Pettine's . Although MPs D sucked vs run, but Spikes was a classic run stopper( though he only played running downs) . So it worked. There's no reason the talent on this D cannot run Thurman's D properly. It just takes discipline and our LBs don't play with any. It's not a matter of talent. This D will work if each man does HIS OWN job. Guys are not being asked to do anything they cannot do physically( save for the NE debacle of a game plan).

[BADOLBILZ]

To be fair , Schwartz didn't come in and say " I think I'll run a scheme that suits my guys the best". He did what every coach does- he ran HIS system.

 

I think that's true. Schwartz is no genius. His D only works when it has the horses up front.

 

 

It worked, but so did Pettine's . Although MPs D sucked vs run, but Spikes was a classic run stopper( though he only played running downs) . So it worked.

 

 

Petting changed the Jets style D to suit the defensive front better.

 

Spikes was not here for Pettine.

 

 

There's no reason the talent on this D cannot run Thurman's D properly. It just takes discipline and our LBs don't play with any. It's not a matter of talent. This D will work if each man does HIS OWN job. Guys are not being asked to do anything they cannot do physically( save for the NE debacle of a game plan).

 

 

It's not about if........it's about when.

 

And the talent will have to be better suited to the scheme to reach it's potential.

 

The idea that the Bills traded Kiko because they liked their LB's so much rings a little hollow when they were chasing David Harris in free agency.

 

People aren't going to like it when Kyle Williams is dumped for block holder like Mike DeVito but in the long term getting rid of big $ guys like Kyle and Mario will save them a lot of $ for the offense.

 

This is about THIS season though......and if they lose Thursday they probably go into a bit of a free fall with back to back road games in NE and KC.

[3rdand12]

 

When you have 2 gap responsibility you basically become a read and react defender.

 

That is slowing down the rush.

 

As are the tight OL splits created by the bunched defensive front.

 

I gotta disagree about the pressure.

 

Even in the Colts and Dolphins games their pass rush was a shadow of it's former self.

 

Rex defenses rarely produce big individual sack numbers. Maybin lead the Jets in sacks one season.

 

This is a two gap attack now.....and they really can't cut loose until after their run responsibilities have been met.

well thats not much fun to play or watch.

Ryan sucks.

To be fair , Schwartz didn't come in and say " I think I'll run a scheme that suits my guys the best". He did what every coach does- he ran HIS system. It worked, but so did Pettine's . Although MPs D sucked vs run, but Spikes was a classic run stopper( though he only played running downs) . So it worked. There's no reason the talent on this D cannot run Thurman's D properly. It just takes discipline and our LBs don't play with any. It's not a matter of talent. This D will work if each man does HIS OWN job. Guys are not being asked to do anything they cannot do physically( save for the NE debacle of a game plan).

stop it. we are in the minority.

 

I think that's true. Schwartz is no genius. His D only works when it has the horses up front.

 

 

 

 

Petting changed the Jets style D to suit the defensive front better.

 

Spikes was not here for Pettine.

 

 

 

 

It's not about if........it's about when.

 

And the talent will have to be better suited to the scheme to reach it's potential.

 

The idea that the Bills traded Kiko because they liked their LB's so much rings a little hollow when they were chasing David Harris in free agency.

 

People aren't going to like it when Kyle Williams is dumped for block holder like Mike DeVito but in the long term getting rid of big $ guys like Kyle and Mario will save them a lot of $ for the offense.

 

This is about THIS season though......and if they lose Thursday they probably go into a bit of a free fall with back to back road games in NE and KC.

Preston Brown was brought in as a thumper in the draft, and showed in one year he could play sideline to sideline and cover. Mistake ? maybe.

Harris was a guy who could get up and run the D from the Mike in Ryan's D.

Brown has more upside and is smart. Second year Linebacker calling the play in complicated Ryan Thurman D. Over a very smart slowing Harris ?

little slump and we are thinking about Kiko?

[The Big Cat]

Rex Ryan wasn't hired to run Jim Schwartz's defense.

 

Deal with it.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Preston Brown was brought in as a thumper in the draft, and showed in one year he could play sideline to sideline and cover. Mistake ? maybe.

Harris was a guy who could get up and run the D from the Mike in Ryan's D.

Brown has more upside and is smart. Second year Linebacker calling the play in complicated Ryan Thurman D. Over a very smart slowing Harris ?

little slump and we are thinking about Kiko?

 

I don't really get your point.....the Bills pursued Harris.....he chose to stay in NY.

 

Wrt the idea that Preston Brown was a sideline to sideline machine last year.....let me ask you to do a little recollection.

 

When you think about some of the big plays that the Bills made along the sidelines last year.......were they solo tackles by those linebackers?

 

Or were they getting assistance from DE's...like Jerry Hughes....that this year are now too far from the play to impact it?

 

The wide 9 front made it much more difficult to attack the edges.......when you have a talented DE that wide it's like having an automatically set edge in the run game.

 

In the event that teams do attempt to go wide.....that set edge forces the runner to run parallel or take an arc to get to the sideline......which makes it much easier for a guy like Brown or Bradham to catch up and make a play.

[FireChan]

Rex Ryan wasn't hired to run Jim Schwartz's defense.

 

Deal with it.

Can we just make the playoffs. Just once.

[Beerball]

Rex Ryan wasn't hired to run Jim Schwartz's defense.

Perhaps, but he did say that he would adjust to fit the talents on the team.

[dave mcbride]

well thats not much fun to play or watch.

Ryan sucks.

stop it. we are in the minority.

Preston Brown was brought in as a thumper in the draft, and showed in one year he could play sideline to sideline and cover. Mistake ? maybe.

Harris was a guy who could get up and run the D from the Mike in Ryan's D.

Brown has more upside and is smart. Second year Linebacker calling the play in complicated Ryan Thurman D. Over a very smart slowing Harris ?

little slump and we are thinking about Kiko?

David Harris is light years better than Brown right now, and Brown, who is decent, will likely never be as good as Harris still is right now. Harris is legitimately one of the best lbs of the past 15 years. The 2 shouldn't be compared, and yes, the bills craved harris, who wound up being transition tagged for a reason. Edited November 11, 2015 by dave mcbride

[The Big Cat]

Perhaps, but he did say that he would adjust to fit the talents on the team.

May be he over estimated the talent.

[Reed83HOF]

Rex Ryan wasn't hired to run Jim Schwartz's defense.

 

Deal with it.

He was hired to be an HC not a DC...

[FireChan]

May be he over estimated the talent.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.