John from Riverside Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Does Whaley know who he's shopping for or are these groceries for himself? Well now lets discuss that for a second As anyone knows who does any kind of research on Rex Ryan's defenses.......shut down corners are what makes his defense work (and yes.....while they are going through some issues right now it would be HORRIBLE without good corners) So Whaley with a late second round pick no less drafts Darby.....then pullsy John Miller (who is a starter) and Karlos WIlliams (who looked great before concussion protocol) Yeah......I would say that Whaley knows who he is shopping for.....ALL of these players fit into what Rex is trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Everyone see what Hopkins is doing for Houston? If he can stay on the freaking field that will be Sammy next year. There are so many similarities between the 2 in their styles of play and perhaps how they have and are developing. Hopkins, in year 3 is getting it and more importantly so are the Houston coaches who know they need to get him the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The issues with Whaley involve: 1) The Current QB situation... Never adequately addressed in 2014, and did the same thing in 2015. 2) The RB Situation... Bungled situation at RB including the release of Jackson. 3) Has jeopardized the future of the Bills with paying a fortune for a front-four defensive line that can be easily game-planned against. Have the coaches helped his case? Certainly not... Do you need more reasons? I mostly agree with #1, #2 and #3. But I also see a more talented squad than the one he inherited. There's enough talent, IMHO, that good coaching could've/should've produced a winning record thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Good post. His handling of the QB situation coupled with the deal to get Sammy without a real QB would have seen his head on a platter in other organizations, regardless of other accomplishments he may enjoy. Further, this team was built to win now to save these guys' jobs now, at the expense of the near future. The problem is we are not winning now and it may get worse before it gets better. That will be around the time Pegula realizes he pulled a Sabres with the Bills and should have cleaned house up front. As with the Sabres, though, better late than never. You support the sacrifices made to bring in Sammy without first securing a QB who can get him the ball? That's just foolish and that was a really bad deal, particularly as it came in a draft filled with WR talent that we didn't need to trade up to get. How can you support that? Yes I do, because teams don't get to know what the statistics and injuries are going to look like in the future when making a draft pick. You need to look at the time this selection was made. Watkins at the time of the draft was far and away the number 1 wide receiver in the draft. Some were saying best prospect since Calvin Johnson! You can monday morning quarterback all you want and be pissed that we didn't wait for Beckham (who wouldn't look like the ROY he was last year on the Bills offense, and we'd be chastising Whaley for not jumping on Sammy who'd probably be lighting it up elsewhere!), but in the end, we've got a GM that's made some bold moves in the draft, as well as trades. You can't ask for anymore from your GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Kachy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I don't know. The D Line is underperforming a lot, maybe due to the scheme, I don't know. The DBs are doing really good. Darby and Gilmore are holding it down. The Offense with Manuel or Taylor is horrendous. The Time of Possession is just killing the D. The Bills can't keep the defense off the field. There is no quick way to fix this mess. They have to start by sustaining drives on offense and then maybe switching back to a 4-3 applying pressure with the big money four. W2, H, and D will get pressure by themselves, which leaves the LBs in coverage or run stop. But this is all mute unless the Offense can stay on the field longer then the Defense. Plus fire the damn training staff already. The team has more injuries every year then any other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 On the Manuel pick, I would like to point out that Buddy Nix was still the GM and I don't remember anything definitive about who ran that draft. So I don' think that pick can be laid at his feet. Am I wrong. Or is this the usual rush to judgment? This team has been trending upward since he took over. The fact that it no longer is is not his fault. You want him to do a better job scouting players not to commit personal fouls or wide receivers who don't commit holding? How about all the roster attention to special teams and our special teams are brutally bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Good post. His handling of the QB situation coupled with the deal to get Sammy without a real QB would have seen his head on a platter in other organizations, regardless of other accomplishments he may enjoy. Further, this team was built to win now to save these guys' jobs now, at the expense of the near future. The problem is we are not winning now and it may get worse before it gets better. That will be around the time Pegula realizes he pulled a Sabres with the Bills and should have cleaned house up front. As with the Sabres, though, better late than never. You support the sacrifices made to bring in Sammy without first securing a QB who can get him the ball? That's just foolish and that was a really bad deal, particularly as it came in a draft filled with WR talent that we didn't need to trade up to get. How can you support that? this idea that you can only pick certain types of players after you have others had to be one of the dumbest myths that's always brought up here. (And that's not even saying they did think they had their QB already with Manual who they drafted the year before) it's almost as bad as the myth that Fred Jackson still being here would have this team in a different position. No matter if they have a QB or not, whomever is throwing the ball needs someone to throw to. Who's this young QB going to throw to when they are trying to develop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'm really not getting the Doug Whaley hate by some people. I feel that he put together a talented roster during the off-season (everyone did!). He picked three very good players in the draft without a first rounder. Signing Incognito and Clay were solid moves. McCoy is a good football player when healthy. He's made mistakes, such as the failure to address right tackle. But no team is perfect. He kept the defense intact, which I thought was a great move. Still not ready to give up on Tyrod Taylor who has a lot of talent. The blueprint was supposed to be to run the ball, mix in the pass and play great defense. He had no reason to believe that our defense would uhhhh...stink! He did not pick the defensive guru coach who ruined a very good defense, The team is underacheiving. It doesn't mean everyone is responsible. It is clear to me at least that this coaching staff is brutal, especially rex and crossman. Do you think we would be 3-3 with the Bowles- Gailey combo. I don't. Leave Whaley alone. And lets give Tyrod some more chances too. If the defense had lived up to billing, our record would be better. He's an undistinguished GM at this point. Neither good nor bad. Some of both....and a roster enhanced by high draft pick opportunities caused by relentless losing.....and big money spent. Rex has been a clusterf*ck. And I hate saying that because I like Rex and I think Roman was a good hire. The QB play has actually been a surprise considering how bad the situation looked in the offseason. Can't believe he is being so obstinate about his D style at the expense of victories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I agree that the season has been disappointing so far, if not worse given the hype about our talent. If there is dysfunction in the Bills organization and the Bills finish .500 or worse, I think Whaley will be the one to go, particularly since there were efforts made to bring in a football czar after last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) The issues with Whaley involve: 1) The Current QB situation... Never adequately addressed in 2014, and did the same thing in 2015. 2) The RB Situation... Bungled situation at RB including the release of Jackson. 3) Has jeopardized the future of the Bills with paying a fortune for a front-four defensive line that can be easily game-planned against. Have the coaches helped his case? Certainly not... Do you need more reasons? Number 1 - I agree with ! Number 2 - i think if Karlos hadn't gotten the concussion you would be singing a different tune cause up till he went down our running game was contributing pretty well & if Shady was shut down when the hammy flared in training camp he could have been healthy but isn't either . Trading Fred kind of sucked agree'd but it was time . Number 3 - If the new coaches could have looked at the tape from last year & saw what was working (rather well i might add) & built off of that instead of THINKING they needed to change it completely then the D would have been having a season like the last 2 & every body is happy because they kept the D line together . So that one is on the coach not the GM for investing in the teams thought to be strong point , because lets face it a great coached defense wins championship !! Whaley get s a little for the QB thing but there is more than enough blame to go elsewhere too & the injury thing for sure doesn't help matters !! Edited October 20, 2015 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Doug is top third in GM's. Rex is bottom third in coaches. (But he's one helluva salesman with new owners, and some media/fans.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I agree that the season has been disappointing so far, if not worse given the hype about our talent. If there is dysfunction in the Bills organization and the Bills finish .500 or worse, I think Whaley will be the one to go, particularly since there were efforts made to bring in a football czar after last season. The hype about the talent is well founded. I don't love everything Whaley has done but those are micro-problems compared to the blatant nonsense Rex is perpetrating with his inflexibility wrt his defensive scheme. His ST cuts/pickups are blowing up in his face as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Good post. His handling of the QB situation coupled with the deal to get Sammy without a real QB would have seen his head on a platter in other organizations, regardless of other accomplishments he may enjoy. Further, this team was built to win now to save these guys' jobs now, at the expense of the near future. The problem is we are not winning now and it may get worse before it gets better. That will be around the time Pegula realizes he pulled a Sabres with the Bills and should have cleaned house up front. As with the Sabres, though, better late than never. You support the sacrifices made to bring in Sammy without first securing a QB who can get him the ball? That's just foolish and that was a really bad deal, particularly as it came in a draft filled with WR talent that we didn't need to trade up to get. How can you support that? Whaley has his warts for sure, and I agree that trading up for a WR when the team didn't already have a franchise QB was blatantly stupid, and would have cost him his job with any other NFL team. A big problem with the current team is the lack of quality play from the right side of the offensive line. Even if Whaley would have obtained the O line players like he originally planned with guys like Jarhi Evans, Bryan Bulaga, and even those two wouldn't be enough without Incognito. The offensive line remains a huge concern particularly since LT Glenn in his last year. While Ryan is credited with bringing in QB Tyrod Taylor, WR Percy Harvin, and OG Richie Incognito, and those three are a big reason why the offense improved. His defense has taken a huge step backwards from what Schwartz built in Buffalo. I gotta wonder if Hughes, Dareus knew then what they know now, if they would have signed to stay in Buffalo. The Pegula's need to take a long hard look at this coaching staff, and perhaps the GM too if this staff can't fix the many problems that plague this team this year. Injuries aside, and happen to every team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'm really not getting the Doug Whaley hate by some people. I feel that he put together a talented roster during the off-season (everyone did!). Leave Whaley alone. And lets give Tyrod some more chances too. If the defense had lived up to billing, our record would be better. I can pick nits about his drafting but no GM hits on all picks so am going to ignore that for a moment, IMHO, his biggest failing is the choice of coaches. Marrone followed by Ryan is one disaster after another. Ryan is looking terrible for (1) his complicated and ineffective defense (2) lack of discipline manifesting itself in the chronic problem of penalties, and (3) didnt know where to assign blame but it appears to me that there are more injuries this season than in the past two. Strength and conditioning ?? (4) Crossman - known in Detroit for his poor STs, he did fairly well with Marrone. What happened this year ? I had pointed out early in the season that there are some disturbing patterns emerging which would be glaring once the 'honeymoon period' was done. Needless to say, we are there now. Whaley has to take the credit (Roman) as well as blame for this coaching staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I don't think Whaley is to blame entirely for Rex. New owners may have been surprisingly infatuated, to the tune of $25 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I don't understand the Whaley ball washing. If we finish 10-6 or better I might get it, but usually you wait until someone actually accomplished something before you crown their ass. As far as I can tell he's turned a lot of high draft picks and big acquisitions courtesy of a Pegula endorsed spending spree into a .500 team. On the Manuel pick, I would like to point out that Buddy Nix was still the GM and I don't remember anything definitive about who ran that draft. So I don' think that pick can be laid at his feet. Am I wrong. Or is this the usual rush to judgment? This team has been trending upward since he took over. The fact that it no longer is is not his fault. You want him to do a better job scouting players not to commit personal fouls or wide receivers who don't commit holding? How about all the roster attention to special teams and our special teams are brutally bad? If he's going to get credit for Mario, Dareus, Woods, Kiko (McCoy) and Gilmore then he's gotta eat it on EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) I am not a Whaley fan. The reasons why are stated well in this thread. I also realize it's not time to quit on the season after 3-3. But the way we got the **** beat out of us in those three losses tells me this team is a fraud. You can blame it on coaching, and it's clear Rex has made some mistakes. But I always have felt like Whaley is just making it up as he goes along. The Fred and Cassel moves are great examples. I know... Cassel sucks and Fred is old an injury prone, but there was no reason to fritter away our depth in those areas. EJ is just so terrible and he's going to get all our receivers killed soon if we don't get him back to the bench. Yet Whaley is doing everything he can to prove the world wrong about him...why? I know Cassel can only throw it about 4 yards but at least it's on time and accurate. Edited October 20, 2015 by jester43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 If this season goes south and we respond by sacking the GM it will be the most braindead move this franchise has made in ages. And there is a list of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The issues with Whaley involve: 1) The Current QB situation... Never adequately addressed in 2014, and did the same thing in 2015. 2) The RB Situation... Bungled situation at RB including the release of Jackson. 3) Has jeopardized the future of the Bills with paying a fortune for a front-four defensive line that can be easily game-planned against. Have the coaches helped his case? Certainly not... Do you need more reasons? I do need more reasons. He addressed QB with TT and Cassel in the off season. Just because you don't like it I think he hedged his bet with the best he could with the options available. Our RB situation is fine and releasing Fred a 3rd stronger that doesn't play STs is fine. The Dline is well played...yes. But the future isn't bleak and we aren't cash strapped. The cap continues to go up. Whaley has done well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 How does Whaley address the QB position when there are none available unless you are a top 3 pick in the draft. Please tell me who they could have drafted? Tell me who they could have picked up? Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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