Alphadawg7 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Some issues with your post: One year, $6M isn't all that friendly of a contract - especially if Harvin misses a lot of games. A one year incentive laden deal with a smaller signing bonus and salary would have been a lot more team friendly. You were careful to say he lead all WRs on the team, which is true. He doesn't lead all receivers though as Clay is way ahead of him with 31 catches for 324 yards. Harvin only has 19 for 218. And Woods is only 7 yards behind him with 17 for 211. So, no, Harvin isn't useless, but he has been way overpaid thus far. Well considering Woods has played in every game and Harvin hasn't, its more telling how much more effective Harvin has been on the field. And I wasnt careful to say anything...I said exactly what I said, he leads all of our WR's this year despite missing time. So to call a guy useless who leads all of our WRs in performance thus far despite missing time and who started the year pretty much considered a 3rd or 4th option originally behind Sammy, Clay, and McCoy is really pretty inaccurate. Anyone with 2 eyes can see how much better this offense is with Sammy and Harvin on the field, but people all over this board slamming them as if they aren't very important. You want to be frustrated he's hurt, go right to it...but to call him useless this year is pretty ridiculous. PS: And with our cap situation, $6M is pretty friendly especially since we have no cap obligations to him next year. Its utterly absurd to complain about his cost when his contract isnt negatively impacting the team this year. We signed everyone we wanted, resigned our own, and have room left over. Complaining about his cost is literally pointless because it didn't hold the team back in any way and we still have room. So it is a friendly contract to say the least, especially since we can get out of it at the end of year if we choose to. Edited October 24, 2015 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Well considering Woods has played in every game and Harvin hasn't, its more telling how much more effective Harvin has been on the field. And I wasnt careful to say anything...I said exactly what I said, he leads all of our WR's this year despite missing time. So to call a guy useless who leads all of our WRs in performance thus far despite missing time and who started the year pretty much considered a 3rd or 4th option originally behind Sammy, Clay, and McCoy is really pretty inaccurate. Anyone with 2 eyes can see how much better this offense is with Sammy and Harvin on the field, but people all over this board slamming them as if they aren't very important. You want to be frustrated he's hurt, go right to it...but to call him useless this year is pretty ridiculous. PS: And with our cap situation, $6M is pretty friendly especially since we have no cap obligations to him next year. Its utterly absurd to complain about his cost when his contract isnt negatively impacting the team this year. We signed everyone we wanted, resigned our own, and have room left over. Complaining about his cost is literally pointless because it didn't hold the team back in any way and we still have room. So it is a friendly contract to say the least, especially since we can get out of it at the end of year if we choose to. I'll say two clarifications 1) we will have cap hit next year but it's really no impact either way. He had signing bonus that amortized and then will hit next year if gone. Not major as we will just carry over the same money to account for it since we didn't spend to cap this year (but someone's bound to argue it as omg we have a hit next year) 2) you were specific in wr. I'd also add that clay is paid a good bit more so it's good he's producing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 He played great when he was healthy - made a lot of catches and had some big blocks, too, if I recall. If he has an injury that prevents him from ever playing at a high level again, that's not his fault. The FO took a flyer on a guy with a lot of talent and potential injury problems. They gambled and maybe lost. Why all the hate? What is wrong with you people? it seems we agree. The injury thing has been the only negative, not his play. bit of a shame it did not work. At least we will not be forced to pay him next year because of his play. I know that is harsh but as everyone knows, players need to be on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 it seems we agree. The injury thing has been the only negative, not his play. bit of a shame it did not work. At least we will not be forced to pay him next year because of his play. I know that is harsh but as everyone knows, players need to be on the field. Long way to go before its declared a bust. For all we know he laces up in two weeks, and tries to prove something to himself and looks good til January Whole board is burying the guy with very little solid info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imran Q Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Well considering Woods has played in every game and Harvin hasn't, its more telling how much more effective Harvin has been on the field. And I wasnt careful to say anything...I said exactly what I said, he leads all of our WR's this year despite missing time. So to call a guy useless who leads all of our WRs in performance thus far despite missing time and who started the year pretty much considered a 3rd or 4th option originally behind Sammy, Clay, and McCoy is really pretty inaccurate. Anyone with 2 eyes can see how much better this offense is with Sammy and Harvin on the field, but people all over this board slamming them as if they aren't very important. You want to be frustrated he's hurt, go right to it...but to call him useless this year is pretty ridiculous. PS: And with our cap situation, $6M is pretty friendly especially since we have no cap obligations to him next year. Its utterly absurd to complain about his cost when his contract isnt negatively impacting the team this year. We signed everyone we wanted, resigned our own, and have room left over. Complaining about his cost is literally pointless because it didn't hold the team back in any way and we still have room. So it is a friendly contract to say the least, especially since we can get out of it at the end of year if we choose to. Well spoken Alphadawg (great movie Btw). The hater comments on this board are absolutely asinine and I'd imagine a bit conveniently readjusted after the fact. I doubt anyone of these guys was hating on Harvin after his TD sparked the team in the Colts game. Harvin has been nothing but a class act and has performed well (leading the team in receiving). There are no indications he has been a bad teammate so the people saying they were weary of him based on his prior incidences are demonstrating a flawed confirmation bias. Harvin didn't choose to be injured. It's a rough sport. Injuries happen. I wish him the best and hope he can come back this year. And as for the people complaining about his salary, that's laughable. Would you have preferred the Pegula's just put it in their retirement account instead? Give me the potential playmaker please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I didn't think it was a Buffalo thing to kick a man when he's down. I hope Percy's okay. Whatever ailing him, I hope he recovers. And I hope he becomes a productive Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I didn't think it was a Buffalo thing to kick a man when he's down. I hope Percy's okay. Whatever ailing him, I hope he recovers. And I hope he becomes a productive Bill. This is right. None of us has a clue or understands what the hell is going on with the man. We can only hope he shows up and is ready to play after the buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 The WR coached loves him. that guy from the Jets. I think looked pretty good to me for us. He blocked too. Was worth the risk. Sucks he aint healthy for us. sucks he aint healthy for him. like i said risk and reward. He has been playing hurt for who knows how long? but he got paid. seem his bet was good. Whaleys, not so much. shame though kid can play ball. I was against signing him but I get that you can take the risk / reward angle and I certainly preferred signing him to having the money sitting unused.... the Bills said they were going all in this year so spend the $$$s any way you can. I think an offensive lineman would have helped more and they tried for one first and when it didn't come off used the spare money on Harvin. No real argument there. But I have been a sceptic of him as a player long before he came to Buffalo. I think he is an overrated receiver who struggles to stay healthy and who has some real limitations in how you can use him in the passing game. The go route against the Colts is one of the ways you can use him and it isn't his fault that Sammy got hurt and hence they had to start trying to do more with him. But he isn't a great player even when healthy, far from it, he never has been in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Percys so useless that the Kardashians are sick of watching HIM on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Well considering Woods has played in every game and Harvin hasn't, its more telling how much more effective Harvin has been on the field. And I wasnt careful to say anything...I said exactly what I said, he leads all of our WR's this year despite missing time. So to call a guy useless who leads all of our WRs in performance thus far despite missing time and who started the year pretty much considered a 3rd or 4th option originally behind Sammy, Clay, and McCoy is really pretty inaccurate. Anyone with 2 eyes can see how much better this offense is with Sammy and Harvin on the field, but people all over this board slamming them as if they aren't very important. You want to be frustrated he's hurt, go right to it...but to call him useless this year is pretty ridiculous. PS: And with our cap situation, $6M is pretty friendly especially since we have no cap obligations to him next year. Its utterly absurd to complain about his cost when his contract isnt negatively impacting the team this year. We signed everyone we wanted, resigned our own, and have room left over. Complaining about his cost is literally pointless because it didn't hold the team back in any way and we still have room. So it is a friendly contract to say the least, especially since we can get out of it at the end of year if we choose to. Woods has 297 offensive snaps to Harvin's 240. Maybe not as big of a discrepancy as you'd think. Wood is a decent player. He's certainly not nearly as a special an athlete as Harvin is, but he's dependable. He can be counted on to run his routes properly, be where he's supposed to be, give consistent effort and put the team ahead of himself. None of these things can be said of Harvin. Yes, he can take the top off of a defense and it's easy to look at some of his splash plays and be impressed, but that's just a tease of what he might have been. The talent is there, but the heart and dedication isn't. Look at his history and you'll see it never was. So to be clear when I compare Woods to Harvin I'm comparing a guy with special talent to a guy with very average talent and roughly 25% more snaps. I've called Harvin a lot of things - selfish, overpaid, undedicated - but never useless. He's sure not the kind of player I put on anything but an incentive driven contract. That way if he changes his behavior he'd get paid, but if he were to follow his past pattern he wouldn't be a fiscal liability. Incidentally his cap hit is $4M this year and $2M next due to the contract structure. That's not crippling by any stretch, but it sure doesn't send the message I'd want out there to the team and pissing away cap space is never a good idea - especially with so many more players to re-sign. The Bills aren't in cap hell but they have a lot of money on the books moving forward. They've done a good job re-signing some young talent - and a good job of letting some go. But they have spent some serious dollars recently and have more work to do with Glenn, Gilmore and Bradham. That's going to add up - especially with the going rates for CBs and LTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I was against signing him but I get that you can take the risk / reward angle and I certainly preferred signing him to having the money sitting unused.... the Bills said they were going all in this year so spend the $$$s any way you can. I think an offensive lineman would have helped more and they tried for one first and when it didn't come off used the spare money on Harvin. No real argument there. But I have been a sceptic of him as a player long before he came to Buffalo. I think he is an overrated receiver who struggles to stay healthy and who has some real limitations in how you can use him in the passing game. The go route against the Colts is one of the ways you can use him and it isn't his fault that Sammy got hurt and hence they had to start trying to do more with him. But he isn't a great player even when healthy, far from it, he never has been in my eyes. I was a skeptic too. Heck i did not know much about him besides the negatives. But he seems to have been been an asset. and a good team player. When on the field.. I hope he can get healthy this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Woods has 297 offensive snaps to Harvin's 240. Off topic a but the funniest part is Charles Clay, whom was the player everybody was really worried about in terms of injury. He has 372 snaps this year. Only Incog and Woods have more on offense. Edited October 24, 2015 by MDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very wide right Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 he has the second most receptions of any player on the team That's what I was thinking, why are they so down on the guy? He's going through some personal issues right now so why pile on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 That's what I was thinking, why are they so down on the guy? He's going through some personal issues right now so why pile on ? What do you do when you're going through personal issues? Do you tell your employer that you won't be back to work indefinitely because you're frustrated? Do you screw your coworkers and leave them to pick up your slack? Would you expect to keep your job and keep getting paid while you go on your self-imposed hiatus? I know I don't do any of those things when I have personal problems - which every adult has at one time or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I like Harvin. His talent is obvious and by all accounts he's been a good teammate and tireless worker since he got here. His past health issues have crept up again, unfortunately. The Bills knew his history though, and felt it was a risk worth taking. The season has quite a ways to go. The Bills calling it a personal issue maybe means it's not completely related to an injury . We' ll see. This team is better with him than without him if he can get back on the field. The contract was team friendly in structure. Saying things like it should have been incentive based are unrealistic. He would have just gone to New England. After losing out to the Jets for Brandon Marshall, Harvin was their best chance to land a WR with game changing talent. A good get by Whaley, just hope he can get healthy and figure things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I like Harvin. His talent is obvious and by all accounts he's been a good teammate and tireless worker since he got here. His past health issues have crept up again, unfortunately. The Bills knew his history though, and felt it was a risk worth taking. The season has quite a ways to go. The Bills calling it a personal issue maybe means it's not completely related to an injury . We' ll see. This team is better with him than without him if he can get back on the field. The contract was team friendly in structure. Saying things like it should have been incentive based are unrealistic. He would have just gone to New England. After losing out to the Jets for Brandon Marshall, Harvin was their best chance to land a WR with game changing talent. A good get by Whaley, just hope he can get healthy and figure things out. good post Boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 The only thing worse than an overpaid WR is an overpaid WR who spends more time on the injury list than on the field. What were the terms of his contract? Is it an easy out next year? Seriously? The details of his contract have been reported numerous times Do you feel the same way about Sammy Watkins since he has missed more games than Harvin has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 A wasted top NFL talent with no brains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I know that the guaranteed portion is as the name implies "guaranteed" and cannot be taken away. However, with his history of injuries and off the field antics, don't you think they would have included some covenants in his contract regarding the guaranteed portion of his pay. Also, if a player retires half way through the season and does not fulfill the terms of the original contract, I have to think that at a minimum, this would go to arbitration? I think that is typical actually. With some of the guys who retired from the 49'ers this year there was press about them having to repay a portion of their signing bonus. If the team cuts you or you're injured, you keep the $$, if the player retires, pay back time. Of course it depends on the specifics of the individual contract, and the Bills historically have not been smart about some of the contract terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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