jimmy10 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Yes, but think in basic business terms: Marketing = Expenses Revenue - Expenses = Profit At what point does marketing over-saturation start to become redundant and a waste of money? That's what I'm arguing here. It makes me wonder if making money is the goal or if it's something else. Like exposure therapy on the public to desensitize them on sports gambling when it eventually becomes legalized. It's not like DK and FD are partnered with the MLB, NBA, and NHL or anything. Maybe it's like coke and pepsi. They're the market leaders. Everybody knows who they are. Why do they spend so much on advertising? To not give up a single inch of market share to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Some random items- These companies can advertise so much because they are being pumped full of investor money. ESPN gave Draft Kings $500 mil with the language that $300 mil will be spent on advertising in the contract. The industry is currently valued at $3-5 Billion, with projections pushing it to a $20 billion industry. Many believe the end result of this "scandal" is a merger between DK and Fanduel, with much tighter restrictions placed on the sites. Sites like Yahoo and CBS have already begun their own DFS contests and have MUCH more money than the 2 current leaders. A big part of this marketing blitz is to get people onto these sites before the giants really get the ball rolling on their own. I play, but I mainly stick to $1 / $2 50/50 leagues that only allow 1 entry per user. Baseball is almost completely random, NFL skews that way (Anyone putting money out there knows Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers = good). I know people who've won the $1 / $2 tournaments and I enter a handful of those, I can win $25,000 on $2 and it's less random than the lottery. College football seems to be where there's a nice profit to turn, there are so many teams involved and sticking to $1 / $2 H2H or small leagues you'll get a lot of people just putting $1 on 4 guys from their favorite teams. I've made money every single week on college football this year, made money in Weeks 1 & 3 of NFL, got crushed in Week 2 (Carlos Hyde and the Eagles killed me) and broke even last week despite having a lot of Rodgers / Julio Jones who had bad games. In regards to dummy teams, I really don't know and I've questioned it myself, but I'd have to believe multiple people would notice if a team came out of nowhere at 4 PM Sunday to have all the best players from the 1 pm games. Unless there's a massive conspiracy to allow Travis Benjamin to score 2 80 yard TDs, there's too much randomness in NFL games and too many players paying attention to put in bots to win $1 mil. There's another under the radar story about the sites changing the cut line on double up leagues to rake out 12-13% instead of the assumed 10%. I'd be pretty surprised if this went the way of online poker, these sites are based in America and paying taxes, but I do expect regulations to be put in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) Some random items- These companies can advertise so much because they are being pumped full of investor money. ESPN gave Draft Kings $500 mil with the language that $300 mil will be spent on advertising in the contract. The industry is currently valued at $3-5 Billion, with projections pushing it to a $20 billion industry. Just for clarification, ESPN/Disney did not invest in either site. Disnet i guess was close to a deal with DraftKings but it never came to fruition. However, they did reach a exclusive marketing agreement, and draftKings not only advertised heavily on the ESPN platforms, but ESPN also featured a ton of DraftKings content in the actual shows. After the OTL piece yesterday, the content piece was stopped by ESPN, and late last night DraftKings pulled their advertising from ESPN, but did not say for how long. So, at least some positives come out of this...less ads!!! http://www.legalsportsreport.com/4681/espn-pulls-draftkings-ads/ Edited October 7, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Some random items- These companies can advertise so much because they are being pumped full of investor money. ESPN gave Draft Kings $500 mil with the language that $300 mil will be spent on advertising in the contract. The industry is currently valued at $3-5 Billion, with projections pushing it to a $20 billion industry. Many believe the end result of this "scandal" is a merger between DK and Fanduel, with much tighter restrictions placed on the sites. Sites like Yahoo and CBS have already begun their own DFS contests and have MUCH more money than the 2 current leaders. A big part of this marketing blitz is to get people onto these sites before the giants really get the ball rolling on their own. I play, but I mainly stick to $1 / $2 50/50 leagues that only allow 1 entry per user. Baseball is almost completely random, NFL skews that way (Anyone putting money out there knows Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers = good). I know people who've won the $1 / $2 tournaments and I enter a handful of those, I can win $25,000 on $2 and it's less random than the lottery. College football seems to be where there's a nice profit to turn, there are so many teams involved and sticking to $1 / $2 H2H or small leagues you'll get a lot of people just putting $1 on 4 guys from their favorite teams. I've made money every single week on college football this year, made money in Weeks 1 & 3 of NFL, got crushed in Week 2 (Carlos Hyde and the Eagles killed me) and broke even last week despite having a lot of Rodgers / Julio Jones who had bad games. In regards to dummy teams, I really don't know and I've questioned it myself, but I'd have to believe multiple people would notice if a team came out of nowhere at 4 PM Sunday to have all the best players from the 1 pm games. Unless there's a massive conspiracy to allow Travis Benjamin to score 2 80 yard TDs, there's too much randomness in NFL games and too many players paying attention to put in bots to win $1 mil. There's another under the radar story about the sites changing the cut line on double up leagues to rake out 12-13% instead of the assumed 10%. I'd be pretty surprised if this went the way of online poker, these sites are based in America and paying taxes, but I do expect regulations to be put in. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 So, at least some positives come out of this...less ads!!! http://www.legalsportsreport.com/4681/espn-pulls-draftkings-ads/ No, just different ads. Now more car commercials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Some random items- These companies can advertise so much because they are being pumped full of investor money. ESPN gave Draft Kings $500 mil with the language that $300 mil will be spent on advertising in the contract. The industry is currently valued at $3-5 Billion, with projections pushing it to a $20 billion industry. Many believe the end result of this "scandal" is a merger between DK and Fanduel, with much tighter restrictions placed on the sites. Sites like Yahoo and CBS have already begun their own DFS contests and have MUCH more money than the 2 current leaders. A big part of this marketing blitz is to get people onto these sites before the giants really get the ball rolling on their own. I play, but I mainly stick to $1 / $2 50/50 leagues that only allow 1 entry per user. Baseball is almost completely random, NFL skews that way (Anyone putting money out there knows Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers = good). I know people who've won the $1 / $2 tournaments and I enter a handful of those, I can win $25,000 on $2 and it's less random than the lottery. College football seems to be where there's a nice profit to turn, there are so many teams involved and sticking to $1 / $2 H2H or small leagues you'll get a lot of people just putting $1 on 4 guys from their favorite teams. I've made money every single week on college football this year, made money in Weeks 1 & 3 of NFL, got crushed in Week 2 (Carlos Hyde and the Eagles killed me) and broke even last week despite having a lot of Rodgers / Julio Jones who had bad games. In regards to dummy teams, I really don't know and I've questioned it myself, but I'd have to believe multiple people would notice if a team came out of nowhere at 4 PM Sunday to have all the best players from the 1 pm games. Unless there's a massive conspiracy to allow Travis Benjamin to score 2 80 yard TDs, there's too much randomness in NFL games and too many players paying attention to put in bots to win $1 mil. There's another under the radar story about the sites changing the cut line on double up leagues to rake out 12-13% instead of the assumed 10%. I'd be pretty surprised if this went the way of online poker, these sites are based in America and paying taxes, but I do expect regulations to be put in. Good write up.. Ok, well I'm going to offer some advice if you or anyone else wants it. I'm a pretty successful player on both sites, and generally win more than half the time; here's what I do. I figured out really early that the average points to be in the money is around 170.. Doing some math one can gather that on average all you need to do is find players that will get you between 15 and 20 points a game. When approaching Fantasy this way and with a little discipline you can actually pull this off quite easily. Most players I see spend to the cap, and this is the wrong approach, IMO. They're always looking for that one or two or three players that will ball-out. If you look at the big winners you'll notice a trend, and that is, they almost never spend to the cap. Yes, tis true that to win the grand prize you really need some luck, but if you approach fantasy always trying to win it all, you're not taking the correct approach. What you need to do is be in the money every tournament. I play about 10 tourney's a week (Right now I only play fantasy football) and I never spend to the cap. I use my cap dollars on players that are consistently pulling in 15 to 20 points a game. If you pull emotion and hoping out of the equation, and play disciplined you'll start to see more success when playing daily fantasy. Good luck! Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 No, just different ads. Now more car commercials. yea, and they get more lame by the day. #dawnpatrol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moshermw Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I think about that sometimes. Are players/coaches willing to throw the game? I'm open-minded to what you are saying, but do you really think Rex was trying to lose? I believe in refs calling penalties (or not calling penalties) at just the right times to influence games, but I feel like too many people would need to conspire for players and coaches to throw games. Explain a bit more about how you think this would go down. One popular way to bet on NFL games and make a good return is with multiple game parlays. The bettor selects several games (let's say 4) and must win all 4 to get the payout. If the bettor loses the bet, the booking service keeps the money. Winning a 4 game parlay with a 50/50 chance of each team winning is easy math = 0.5^4 = 6.25%. The odds are set up to close to that. If only one game can be influenced by a coach, player or ref, the booking service can really skew the odds in their favor and Billions are bet each Sunday - and the resulting profit divided up. If there is a game that the majority of the fans and talking heads on TV feel is a near sure thing, that's the target game that one would want to influence as it would be chosen in a majority of parlays. The Bills/Giants game was picked at a pretty high percentage of prognosticators - even Cowherd - as a Bills W. When one sees inexplicable playcalling, my point was that this type of scenario quickly pops in my head. It appeared to a moderately educated fan who has watched a lot of football over 40+ years that the Bills playcalling in the first half - especially the 2-minute offense - wasn't actually trying to win. It made no sense for most of the second quarter including the kneel-out before half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 It's amazing the nfl has turned their players into some sort of stock exchange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 It's amazing the nfl has turned their players into some sort of stock exchange I am surprised we have not seen more players selling themselves as investments...ala EJ. BTW, not quite sure how to read the price quotation here...but i assume value is way down https://fantex.com/fantex-ej-manuel-461919/brand-info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Sorry to keep this thing going but I just made an interesting observation for Night 1 of the NHL. It was a $5 entry with $10K top prize and had 19,000 entries. The guy that won first place just registered yesterday on FD and wins 1st place, in his first entry, and to me picking very questionable players, Really! What is strange about all this, is the guys he picked, all visiting players except one Maple Leaf who didn't suit up. He took 7 out of 9 players from Van and SJ. They both won on the road 5-1, against better teams IMO. Van who I don't think is all that good beat a playoff Calgary team and SJ, with a new but average head coach goes into LA and crushes the Kings, and this newbie takes 7 guys from SJ and Van. Anybody that knows anything about hockey wouldn't pick a team full of those visiting guys, maybe a couple of them but not 7 out of 9. Other than PK Subban at 29% his second most popular guy was H Sedin at 20.9% owned. Hmmmmmm..... Been playing FD over a year now and have always wondered if "certain people" were allowed to change players after lineups lock and during the course of the FD game. I have always wondered that and there isn't any way to check. Last night could be totally coincidental but it sure does smell fishy! Edited October 8, 2015 by old school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) I find it disturbing that NFL is invested in gambling on it's own league. The outcome of player performance which it has some control over. Edited October 8, 2015 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I find it disturbing that NFL is invested in gambling on it's own league. The outcome of player performance which it has some control over. Some? Or A LOT of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Here comes the regulation. Hope draft kings and fan duel enjoyed their moment in the sun here come the class actions under various state consumer protection laws. these idiots killed their own businesses. One popular way to bet on NFL games and make a good return is with multiple game parlays. The bettor selects several games (let's say 4) and must win all 4 to get the payout. If the bettor loses the bet, the booking service keeps the money. Winning a 4 game parlay with a 50/50 chance of each team winning is easy math = 0.5^4 = 6.25%. The odds are set up to close to that. If only one game can be influenced by a coach, player or ref, the booking service can really skew the odds in their favor and Billions are bet each Sunday - and the resulting profit divided up. If there is a game that the majority of the fans and talking heads on TV feel is a near sure thing, that's the target game that one would want to influence as it would be chosen in a majority of parlays. The Bills/Giants game was picked at a pretty high percentage of prognosticators - even Cowherd - as a Bills W. When one sees inexplicable playcalling, my point was that this type of scenario quickly pops in my head. It appeared to a moderately educated fan who has watched a lot of football over 40+ years that the Bills playcalling in the first half - especially the 2-minute offense - wasn't actually trying to win. It made no sense for most of the second quarter including the kneel-out before half. so who is in on it? the coaches and the refs? just the refs? a conspiracy needs to be kept small to be kept a secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 so who is in on it? the coaches and the refs? just the refs? a conspiracy needs to be kept small to be kept a secret. Who knows, maybe Vegas pays the Refs more than the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 here come the class actions under various state consumer protection laws. these idiots killed their own businesses. so who is in on it? the coaches and the refs? just the refs? a conspiracy needs to be kept small to be kept a secret. It's the refs for sure, most likely top of the food chain with only a few liaisons/officials working with the refs. They're not told directly, but they get the idea of who the league wants to win. I don't know why everybody is ripping their hair out trying to figure out how it's done. Donaghy spilled the beans to the FBI about exactly how it's done. Easy to find the details if you Google. The FBI believed it enough to reduce his sentence. The reason the FBI didn't investigate the NBA further is simple, IT"S NOT ILLEGAL TO FIX GAMES, it's only illegal if there is gambling involved. Otherwise the rules are the same as WWE, it's entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Good write up.. Ok, well I'm going to offer some advice if you or anyone else wants it. I'm a pretty successful player on both sites, and generally win more than half the time; here's what I do. I figured out really early that the average points to be in the money is around 170.. Doing some math one can gather that on average all you need to do is find players that will get you between 15 and 20 points a game. When approaching Fantasy this way and with a little discipline you can actually pull this off quite easily. Most players I see spend to the cap, and this is the wrong approach, IMO. They're always looking for that one or two or three players that will ball-out. If you look at the big winners you'll notice a trend, and that is, they almost never spend to the cap. Yes, tis true that to win the grand prize you really need some luck, but if you approach fantasy always trying to win it all, you're not taking the correct approach. What you need to do is be in the money every tournament. I play about 10 tourney's a week (Right now I only play fantasy football) and I never spend to the cap. I use my cap dollars on players that are consistently pulling in 15 to 20 points a game. If you pull emotion and hoping out of the equation, and play disciplined you'll start to see more success when playing daily fantasy. Good luck! Tim- That's good advice... I've dabbled a bit and done pretty well...I've more than made my money back in 4 weeks and I enjoy the little rush... Would have cleaned up REAL nice last week had those two TD's not got called back...Had TT and Clay in one tourney that I already finished in the money... Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 That's good advice... I've dabbled a bit and done pretty well...I've more than made my money back in 4 weeks and I enjoy the little rush... Would have cleaned up REAL nice last week had those two TD's not got called back...Had TT and Clay in one tourney that I already finished in the money... Oh well... Thanks. There's other tricks (If you will) that help as well. What I do is look at the games themselves, who's a lock to win. Then I choose that QB for my pick, then I look at RB and try to determine which RB's are in committee, and which one's are both runners and catchers. I weigh the results based on the likelihood of which RB will garner the most action in any particular game, and how well the opposing defense is at stopping the run. Add it altogether and you start to see a picture unfold. WR is a bit more tricky and so too is selecting TE's and D/ST. I've been avoiding FD lately as selecting a kicker is a crap shoot. FK gives you the FLEX option and I like that better. Of course there's always intangibles that happen, like last week Dallas pulling Randle after his mistake.. That cost me in several tourney's, and also the uncertainty of Belliceat playing Lewis or Blount.. Hate picking anyone from NE unless not named Gronk/Edelman/Brady.. By the way for the record I can't stand Edelman, but the guy does get at least 10 to 15 touches a game, and in fantasy that is always gold.. Good luck! Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Here are two articles published on Friday from 2 independent websites containing the same information this insider trader was purported to be using. It is available to the public, if you know where to look. Just like all information is out there if you want to find it. The employee was a top-ranked player before he worked for DraftKings and the data in question does not translate so easily because of differences in rules and scoring. This whole thing wouldn't be a story if the employee hadn't won big on a competitor's site. He was already one of the best and we all had access to very similar information as him. And still, he had to play the right players who actually produced, which. While computer models can try to predict outcomes, there are numerous factors they can't control like injuries, unexpected game flow and coaches decisions. This is SO overblown. But, hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good story... This bolded is what I have been saying from the start. Who would get a job at these companies? Probably people that love fantasy football. Now imagine if your JOB was fantasy football. All day long you got to talk about, had to know everything to keep prices correct, and didn't have to hide fantasy related discussions from your boss. It makes sense that they would place and make money. I've made money off of DK and I don't have any of those luxuries, work 2 jobs, and have an 11 month old at home. This is a drummed up story. They seem to be putting every dime they make into marketing. What's the end-game? One of these companies will become VHS and the other beta max. Or more recently HD DVD or Blu Ray. One of these companies will become Myspace and the other Facebook. Starting to make sense? I'm surprised it's taken this long to investigate fantasy football. Surprised the NFL allows players to participate. Big money in this. Big money in this. Answers your own statement. I watch every single NFL game I can. Sure I love the game but I'm really interested in the 1,2, or 3 players I have on my various fantasy teams. If I didn't play fantasy football staying awake late on a Monday to watch the end of the game to see if the WR2 for some random team can get me the 1.6 points I need for the w. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Entries into the DraftKings' and FanDuel's guaranteed prize pool NFL tournaments hit season highs at both sites. The negative publicity, however, did not take a toll on the popularity of daily fantasy sports. http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13869135/daily-fantasy-sites-draftkings-fanduel-take-highest-number-entries-nfl-season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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