zevo Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I was into it when it started but honestly I use sports as an escape from everyday life which i think most fans do...the constant discussion of the analytics has started to take the fun out of it for me..why cant we just watch the games for what it is....why must we analyze every metric. I deal with metrics all day at work and I understand the reasoning behind it...talk on WGR has become way too analytical. I could be the only one that thinks this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 If we analyze the responses to your post thus far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigdaddyinOrlando Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm tired of all the talk and just want to watch this team! But yes the whole analytics thing is getting crazy. Not just football but baseball as well. Way to many acronyms for me! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm tired of all the talk and just want to watch this team! But yes the whole analytics thing is getting crazy. Not just football but baseball as well. Way to many acronyms for me! lol Baseball has always been a game of numbers and stats though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalothruMyVeins Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Baseball has always been a game of numbers and stats though. Yep, you can't knock baseball for it. It's the sport where a player's numbers are the most conducive to telling the story as to how well or poorly they are doing. 1-1, batter vs. pitcher. In other sports, other players are much more heavily relied upon to have success of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I like analytics, but it just doesn't seem to work very well with football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I was into it when it started but honestly I use sports as an escape from everyday life which i think most fans do...the constant discussion of the analytics has started to take the fun out of it for me..why cant we just watch the games for what it is....why must we analyze every metric. I deal with metrics all day at work and I understand the reasoning behind it...talk on WGR has become way too analytical. I could be the only one that thinks this way.  Especially when they dont know what they are talking about especially on the Afternoon show with Schoop and the Bulldog  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 The second perception is uniform and without bias nobody will talk about analytics. Until that point it will only grow in popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I was into it when it started but honestly I use sports as an escape from everyday life which i think most fans do...the constant discussion of the analytics has started to take the fun out of it for me..why cant we just watch the games for what it is....why must we analyze every metric. I deal with metrics all day at work and I understand the reasoning behind it...talk on WGR has become way too analytical. I could be the only one that thinks this way. Well on GR, if you ask them what football analytics are they say "duh, you are statistically better off going for the 1st down on 4th down instead of punting." They don't take into consideration how good the offense or defense is, down and distance, score and time remaining,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Analytics are just a piece of the puzzle. People run into trouble when they base everything on them or ignore them completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Well on GR, if you ask them what football analytics are they say "duh, you are statistically better off going for the 1st down on 4th down instead of punting." They don't take into consideration how good the offense or defense is, down and distance, score and time remaining,... I'm sick of it as well. I've taken graduate level stats courses and can't stomach these talk show hosts who've likely never take a single course babble on like they're statisticians. Thye have the mike so they assume instant credibility, The term analytics seems big and powerful to the average person, but to someone who wants to use stats to their fullest advantage, they should be predictive, in the case of something like wins. You should able to predict a causal relationship. Instead, these WGR guys just state probabilities, like the probability of getting a first down when going for it on 4th down. What good is the probability of going for it on 4th and 1 if you can't predict the impact it will have on winning? As a standalone stat, it's elementary and obvious. But taken in the context of the game... down and distance, score, weather, injuries, etc. it tells us nothing about whether you should go for it. Â Maybe some of the stats they discuss do that, but I turn the radio off if I am every listening and they discuss it because I prefer my stats lectures from PhDs. And as stated earlier, frankly I just want to watch sports for the randomness and the athleticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This is making me appreciate Sirius radio even more. No local guys pretending to know what they're talking about. I wonder if local radio everywhere is doing this, or do we have the only local "experts" because the team mentioned the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I'm sick of it as well. I've taken graduate level stats courses and can't stomach these talk show hosts who've likely never take a single course babble on like they're statisticians. Thye have the mike so they assume instant credibility, The term analytics seems big and powerful to the average person, but to someone who wants to use stats to their fullest advantage, they should be predictive, in the case of something like wins. You should able to predict a causal relationship. Instead, these WGR guys just state probabilities, like the probability of getting a first down when going for it on 4th down. What good is the probability of going for it on 4th and 1 if you can't predict the impact it will have on winning? As a standalone stat, it's elementary and obvious. But taken in the context of the game... down and distance, score, weather, injuries, etc. it tells us nothing about whether you should go for it. Â Maybe some of the stats they discuss do that, but I turn the radio off if I am every listening and they discuss it because I prefer my stats lectures from PhDs. And as stated earlier, frankly I just want to watch sports for the randomness and the athleticism. It doesn't really sound like analytic type discussion. If they use that word to describe that behavior that would be sort of silly. I also find statistics like that relatively meaningless. That said I'm a big fan of analytics, both in sports and in business. Even the most rational and level headed individual is incapable of zero bias. Real analytics take the bias out. For me, I like to take the bias out and after that let my mind spin it a little to how it fits my world view. Look at WAR in baseball which is exactly what you discuss, Wins above replacement level. In football, I enjoy Footballoutsiders, as they take the field position, down, distance, score on every play and they compare the result to the historical average outcome for that exact situation. Both stats have very fundamentally sound methodology and both also say "This is how good A is, this is how Good B is compared to A". So that method is very nice for predictive based purposes. Â Having said all this, the more moving parts, the less accurate the method will be as far as capturing the parts within the parts. In my opinion the new Analytics side of football players, not teams, has some value, but it will inherently be flawed, because many times it's up to the viewer to interpret the correct assignments of the players. Edited July 24, 2015 by KzooMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gale Gilbert Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I think it has a place in the discussion, even by people who aren't experts. I think 4th down bot on Twitter does say what the win probability is based in a decision to go for it on 4th and whatever or punt. Â At the same time, especially during football season, the afternoon WGR show latches on to it and doesn't let go. I think the problem is that there is a lack of competition in sports radio in Buffalo. These guys have held a monopoly on the afternoon drive time slot with no catalyst for them to improve or get off the air. As a result, they now believe that they are the smartest people in the room. Â On the other side of that, I've lived in the DC, NYC, and now live in Philadelphia (listen to GR on the app). I've found that several hosts in these places are on the opposite end. They act as though the analytics part is for the birds and wear their ignorance of the topic and/or unwillingness to learn the basics of something new as a badge of honor (this may have changed in DC and NY). It is equally off-putting. The difference is, there are competing stations with sports shows along the I-95 corridor, so hosts are incentivized to do their best show every day. Edited July 24, 2015 by Gale Gilbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I was into it when it started but honestly I use sports as an escape from everyday life which i think most fans do...the constant discussion of the analytics has started to take the fun out of it for me..why cant we just watch the games for what it is....why must we analyze every metric. I deal with metrics all day at work and I understand the reasoning behind it...talk on WGR has become way too analytical. I could be the only one that thinks this way. Â I know others feel differently, but that's why I'm not into fantasy football. I don't want to spend my time analyzing player statistics. Â I'd be into analytics if I was a coach. But as a fan, I'll read the occasional stats-guru article but that's it. Â The game itself is exciting and is full of human drama. The numbers, not so much. Â Anyway, most authors of analytics based articles don't seem to understand statistics, or the flaws in their methodology, or just don't care. Often someone just wants some numbers, no matter how flawed, to back a pre-existing opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Well on GR, if you ask them what football analytics are they say "duh, you are statistically better off going for the 1st down on 4th down instead of punting." They don't take into consideration how good the offense or defense is, down and distance, score and time remaining,... What good is the probability of going for it on 4th and 1 if you can't predict the impact it will have on winning? As a standalone stat, it's elementary and obvious. But taken in the context of the game... down and distance, score, weather, injuries, etc. it tells us nothing about whether you should go for it. Â The stat they're using is win probability, it takes into account score, down and distance and time remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Posts that are sick of the NFL, ESPN, WGR, Analytics......isn't it easy to just ignore all of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I was into it when it started but honestly I use sports as an escape from everyday life which i think most fans do...the constant discussion of the analytics has started to take the fun out of it for me..why cant we just watch the games for what it is....why must we analyze every metric. I deal with metrics all day at work and I understand the reasoning behind it...talk on WGR has become way too analytical. I could be the only one that thinks this way. Â it hasn't helped us any thus far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zevo Posted July 24, 2015 Author Share Posted July 24, 2015 Posts that are sick of the NFL, ESPN, WGR, Analytics......isn't it easy to just ignore all of this? yeah...if you totally give up following sports or listening to local sports talk about your favorite team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I like analytics, but it just doesn't seem to work very well with football. 1) Too short of a season 2) One key injury can take you from first to last (i.e. Brady) 3) Football is a collision sport and as such there will always be injuries (See #2 above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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