EJ Manuel's film session games 1-4

[Nanker]

This response is ONLY about the above bolded sentence.

 

Last seasons OL was pretty bad, but not even close to being the worst in 30 years. Remember Greg Jerman (THE worst OT I ever saw)? Joe Panos (who could barely stand up)? Jerry Ostroski sucked but even he wasn't the worst. I wish I had time to post the names of the rest of these disasters. Remember the free agent guard we signed from Carolina? Who was the 6th round pick from Houston? Players would hit out qbs late sometimes drawing blood, and this horror show wouldn't even help the qb up. Someone please help me here with some more names.

 

Compared to what we have seen since the mid nineties, this OL was better than average. Sad but true.

Marcus Spriggs, Jamie Nails, Robert Hicks, Victor Allotey, Tom Nutten, Mike Rockwood, Mike Pucillo... but hey, who's keeping track?

Edited June 3, 2015 by Nanker

[Bill from NYC]

Jon Carmen

Dylan McFarland

Terrence Pennington

Mike Gandy

Lawrence Smith

Mike Pucillo

 

Just off the top of my head

Nice work!!!

Marcus Spriggs, Jamie Nails Robert Hicks, Victor Allotey, Tom Nutten, Mike Rockwood, Mike Pucillo... but hey, who's keeping track?

Yep. Allow me to toss in Coery Louchiey, Bill Conaty and Corbin Lacina for good measure. Remember the OC Fowler? He would get shoved to the ground by small linebackers.

 

Looks like we made our cases, no?

Edited June 3, 2015 by Bill from NYC

[bizell]

EJ still looks like he tries to 'aim' passes rather than throwing passes sometimes. He did this at FSU also.

 

side note: Corbin Lacina wasn't a terrible player

Edited June 3, 2015 by bizell

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

You coming across as troll but Joe Flacco and EJ Manuel had very similar rookie year.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FlacJo00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00.htm

 

Does it mean Manuel will be good as Flacco? Of course not. but it shows QBs need time to develop. There were plenty of people questioning Flacco before he won a SB.

coming across as troll?

It appears obvious to me

 

Imo

[RuntheDamnBall]

Jon Carmen

Dylan McFarland

Terrence Pennington

Mike Gandy

Lawrence Smith

Mike Pucillo

 

Just off the top of my head

A veritable "QB Murderer's Row"...

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

One game out of the many good qbs they faced. Ej manuel is no joe flacco rest assured.

Do you know what the word substance and relevance mean? If you do, do you ever post anything related to those two words? If not, try to i promise it wont hurt. Also ej manuel is ranked 49/50 qbs only qb he beat out is weeden.m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2330912-br-nfl-1000-ranking-the-top-50-quarterbacks-from-2014

huh what?

 

sorry I don't deal well with trolls

the problem is -Trolls don't talk with substance and relevance

they often dodge the main point and twist the subject

 

Here is something of substance and relevance

STATS LIE, and sometimes so does the Eye Test

Edited June 3, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[San-O]

huh what?

 

sorry I don't deal well with trolls

the problem is -Trolls don't talk with substance and relevance

they often dodge the main point and twist the subject

 

Here is something of substance and relevance

STATS LIE, and sometimes so does the Eye Test

 

Not to defend anyone, however not ALL stats lie and I would like anyone to point out what EJ does well, and what he has improved upon. I've looked at all kind if stats for EJ and none paint a veryb good picture.

[thebandit27]

 

Not to defend anyone, however not ALL stats lie and I would like anyone to point out what EJ does well, and what he has improved upon. I've looked at all kind if stats for EJ and none paint a veryb good picture.

 

There are two things that I don't think anyone can deny that he does well: he extends plays with his legs, and he does a very good job of working the deep seam.

 

By contrast, there are two things that I think he does poorly: doesn't trust what he sees, and his lower-body mechanics are shoddy.

 

Everything else falls somewhere in between.

[hondo in seattle]

EJ still looks like he tries to 'aim' passes rather than throwing passes sometimes. He did this at FSU also.

 

side note: Corbin Lacina wasn't a terrible player

 

Lacina is probably a very good human being. But, as I recall, the guy had no agility.

[K-9]

There are two things that I don't think anyone can deny that he does well: he extends plays with his legs, and he does a very good job of working the deep seam.

 

By contrast, there are two things that I think he does poorly: doesn't trust what he sees, and his lower-body mechanics are shoddy.

 

Everything else falls somewhere in between.

Nutshell.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[thebandit27]

Nutshell.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I've been called worse

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

Not to defend anyone, however not ALL stats lie and I would like anyone to point out what EJ does well, and what he has improved upon. I've looked at all kind if stats for EJ and none paint a veryb good picture.

correct used correctly stats are very valuable.

however implementing stats in a correct manner is not a simple as posting yardage gained

 

2 deep passes or 2 long runs of 20 - 30 yds or more can really make your stats phenomenal and hide the otherwise 2 to 3 ypc average for that game or season

honestly 6 - 8 career WL isn't too bad for a rookie to start out with when he has a HC with his head up his arse.

 

Stats good sir can't factor in idiot HC's crappy game plans, or continuously playing against the best defenses in the league while your peers play poorer defenses.

 

By contrast, there are two things that I think he does poorly: doesn't trust what he sees, and his lower-body mechanics are shoddy.

this is something only playing time can fix. If not then we can move on with the next best guess @ QB.

Edited June 3, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[thebandit27]

this is something only playing time can fix. If not then we can move on with the next best guess @ QB.

 

I think that's partially true with regard to trusting what he sees, although I'm hoping the practice habits and communication with the coaching staff that he saw from Orton taught him a thing or two about preparing. You can think you're doing everything you need to be doing, while not actually be doing everything.

 

As to the lower-body mechanics, that, IMO, has little to do with playing time. He needs to work on that day and night until it's consistent, or his accuracy will continue to suffer. Yes, it can be fixed; no, it won't be easy.

[Dibs]

 

....I would like anyone to point out what EJ....has improved upon. I've looked at all kind if stats for EJ and none paint a veryb good picture.

In his 4 games last year, EJ showed large improvement when he was flushed from the pocket. In 2013, when this occurred he rarely(never?) looked up field for a receiving target. He apparently worked on this in that offseason and in 2014 this was corrected and he was much improved in that situation.

 

I am far removed from having talent evaluating skills and even I noticed this in his games last year.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Dibs

[RuntheDamnBall]

 

There are two things that I don't think anyone can deny that he does well: he extends plays with his legs, and he does a very good job of working the deep seam.

 

By contrast, there are two things that I think he does everything poorly: doesn't trust what he sees, and his lower-body mechanics are shoddy. Plays like a janitor and we would be better of with Dan McGwire, at age 48.

I've fixed this up to reflect the way that select posters who have agendas seem to see it.

[Gugny]

 

I've been called worse

 

Wouldn't a nutshell be a scrotum?

[San-O]

 

There are two things that I don't think anyone can deny that he does well: he extends plays with his legs, and he does a very good job of working the deep seam.

 

By contrast, there are two things that I think he does poorly: doesn't trust what he sees, and his lower-body mechanics are shoddy.

 

Everything else falls somewhere in between.

 

He does extend plays with his legs, and has learned to not take as many hits. Has he improved in the aspects that

make a better QB? Reads, decision making, accuracy, progressions?

[thebandit27]

 

He does extend plays with his legs, and has learned to not take as many hits. Has he improved in the aspects that

make a better QB? Reads, decision making, accuracy, progressions?

 

Reads, decision-making, and progressions are pretty much all ways of saying the same thing; as I said, one of his faults is not trusting what he sees.

 

His accuracy issues stem almost 100% from the flaws in his lower-body mechanics.

 

We shall see if he's improved in either of those areas.

 

His deep throws certainly have gotten better from where he started early on in his rookie season, and I thought he did a better job at putting the ball up in space for his receivers to make a play last year as well.

 

Now, that's not enough, but I think everyone pretty much acknowledges that at this point.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

 

He does extend plays with his legs, and has learned to not take as many hits. Has he improved in the aspects that

make a better QB? Reads, decision making, accuracy, progressions?

well thanks to Doug Marrone we don't know

 

we should know and now all we have is speculation an to wait for live action play

[3rdand12]

well thanks to Doug Marrone we don't know

 

we should know and now all we have is speculation an to wait for live action play

good thing the Coaches have something tangible to chew upon, in regard to EJ this year coming!

This is a trust in the Coaches situation. Because we really dont know and its not just EJ its Tyrod too.

We have only to guess What Ryan and Roman are thinking

[YoloinOhio]

well thanks to Doug Marrone we don't know

 

we should know and now all we have is speculation an to wait for live action play

marrone should have absolutely started EJ against the Pats in the final week. I wonder if Whaley put up a fight or not. I'm guessing yes. The FO should have known right then that Marrone was going to bolt, as he didn't have the interest of the organization's future in mind to evaluate the young 1st rd QB further in a game setting. He only cared about his w-l record as he hit the market. Brutal.

[Mr. WEO]

marrone should have absolutely started EJ against the Pats in the final week. I wonder if Whaley put up a fight or not. I'm guessing yes. The FO should have known right then that Marrone was going to bolt, as he didn't have the interest of the organization's future in mind to evaluate the young 1st rd QB further in a game setting. He only cared about his w-l record as he hit the market. Brutal.

 

Curious as to what playing EJ in that game after all that time off would have proven. Not that he shouldn't have played him, but not sure why the difference would have been at this point.

 

What if EJ bombed? That would have been a disaster for this kid.

[Leroi]

I'm curious if Orton didn't retire, would he be the undisputed starter??

 

 

 

 

 

Imo

[YoloinOhio]

 

Curious as to what playing EJ in that game after all that time off would have proven. Not that he shouldn't have played him, but not sure why the difference would have been at this point.

 

What if EJ bombed? That would have been a disaster for this kid.

imo it would have been for the film, not the result

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Nice work!!!

Yep. Allow me to toss in Coery Louchiey, Bill Conaty and Corbin Lacina for good measure. Remember the OC Fowler? He would get shoved to the ground by small linebackers.

 

Looks like we made our cases, no?

 

don't forget Cornell Green

 

But considering how bad our OL was last year....do you guys really find it comforting that it could have been worse?

[Mr. WEO]

imo it would have been for the film, not the result

 

I don't think he would have recovered easily from a bad outing at the end of he season. This film wouldn't have added much new info in that case.

[The Wiz]

I'm curious if Orton didn't retire, would he be the undisputed starter??

 

 

 

 

 

Imo

Since Marrone is no longer the head coach I don't think he would have even been involved in OTA's.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Imo

[YoloinOhio]

 

I don't think he would have recovered easily from a bad outing at the end of he season. This film wouldn't have added much new info in that case.

i disagree there. First, we don't know if he would have performed poorly. Second. We don't know that if he did perform poorly that he wouldn't be able to "recover."

 

Most importantly, game evaluation is extremely important for QBs like him who they are trying to make decisions about. The more, the better.

[thebandit27]

I'm curious if Orton didn't retire, would he be the undisputed starter??

 

 

 

 

 

Imo

 

I think he'd be taking Cassel's spot in the competition.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Rex would have cut Orton days before Leroi said EJ would be cut

marrone should have absolutely started EJ against the Pats in the final week. I wonder if Whaley put up a fight or not. I'm guessing yes. The FO should have known right then that Marrone was going to bolt, as he didn't have the interest of the organization's future in mind to evaluate the young 1st rd QB further in a game setting. He only cared about his w-l record as he hit the market. Brutal.

and with the win the naysayers will point to what I have been saying when Orton produced ZERO points against backups

 

EJ won because the Pats* didn't play Gronk and their #1 WR and pulled Brady* and more starters in the 2nd half.

 

The switch should have been made much earlier. maybe after the KC game definitely after the 9 point Miami game

Edited June 4, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[BuffaloHokie13]

Rex would have cut Orton days before Leroi said EJ would be cut

and with the win the naysayers will point to what I have been saying when Orton produced ZERO points against backups

 

EJ won because the Pats* didn't play Gronk and their #1 WR and pulled Brady* and more starters in the 2nd half.

 

The switch should have been made much earlier. maybe after the KC game definitely after the 9 point Miami game

You keep talking about this. I don't know who they didn't start on defense, but we didn't have Dareus, Gilmore, or McKelvin. Let it go man.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I'm curious if Orton didn't retire, would he be the undisputed starter??

 

Imo

 

You are? Why?

 

Rex loves a gamer. Rex hates a quitter.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

You keep talking about this. I don't know who they didn't start on defense, but we didn't have Dareus, Gilmore, or McKelvin. Let it go man.

am I telling a lie? did i say Defensive starters? I referenced O players. Regardless the Bills scored ZERO points in the 2nd half.

 

Also are you implying that the Pats* would not have scored in the 2nd half with Brady* and his 3 top guys playing?

Edited June 4, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[Mr. WEO]

i disagree there. First, we don't know if he would have performed poorly. Second. We don't know that if he did perform poorly that he wouldn't be able to "recover."

 

Most importantly, game evaluation is extremely important for QBs like him who they are trying to make decisions about. The more, the better.

 

The recovery was my opinion. The possibility of doing poorly is based on the probability him doing so. There were plenty of other games to review on film. After taking 12 weeks off (for being benched for poor play), I don't see what good would have come from reviewing the film of one more game.

[YoloinOhio]

 

The recovery was my opinion. The possibility of doing poorly is based on the probability him doing so. There were plenty of other games to review on film. After taking 12 weeks off (for being benched for poor play), I don't see what good would have come from reviewing the film of one more game.

in player evaluation, the more game film, the better.

[BuffaloHokie13]

am I telling a lie? did i say Defensive starters? I referenced O players. Regardless the Bills scored ZERO points in the 2nd half.

 

Also are you implying that the Pats* would not have scored in the 2nd half with Brady* and his 3 top guys playing?

You are being disingenuous. You're referencing that the Pats* played their 2nd stringers and we still didn't score. Their 2nd stringers were on their offense, which had little to no effect on our offense scoring. I'm just trying to figure out what impact Gronk sitting has on our offense scoring in your eyes.

 

Brady was completely frustrated in the first half, but to speculate on what would have happened in the second half is entirely pointless because it didn't happen. You can think and assume whatever you want about what could have happened, but the fact is that the Pats* offense got crushed by our defense that game without Dareus, Gilmore, or McKelvin.

[GG]

marrone should have absolutely started EJ against the Pats in the final week. I wonder if Whaley put up a fight or not. I'm guessing yes. The FO should have known right then that Marrone was going to bolt, as he didn't have the interest of the organization's future in mind to evaluate the young 1st rd QB further in a game setting. He only cared about his w-l record as he hit the market. Brutal.

 

I think it was K-9 who brought up valid points why it would have been fruitless to start EJ. Because it was a glorified August game in December, you wouldn't be getting the true look you would want from EJ and his surrounding cast. You already know what he can do in practice, and the New England game wouldn't have been much more than that.

 

As for the question of why not put in EJ earlier in the season, by Marrone's comments there was clearly pressure from upstairs to put EJ back in as Orton was struggling.

[John from Riverside]

I'm curious if Orton didn't retire, would he be the undisputed starter??

 

 

 

 

 

Imo

I do not think he would be....

 

But I also think Cassel would not have been brought in......

 

Im tellin everybody I really think Rex is going to give TT a legit shot at that starting spot.....

Rex would have cut Orton days before Leroi said EJ would be cut

and with the win the naysayers will point to what I have been saying when Orton produced ZERO points against backups

 

EJ won because the Pats* didn't play Gronk and their #1 WR and pulled Brady* and more starters in the 2nd half.

 

The switch should have been made much earlier. maybe after the KC game definitely after the 9 point Miami game

We also were missing key players...why do you keep leaving that out.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

You are being disingenuous. You're referencing that the Pats* played their 2nd stringers and we still didn't score. Their 2nd stringers were on their offense, which had little to no effect on our offense scoring. I'm just trying to figure out what impact Gronk sitting has on our offense scoring in your eyes.

 

Brady was completely frustrated in the first half, but to speculate on what would have happened in the second half is entirely pointless because it didn't happen. You can think and assume whatever you want about what could have happened, but the fact is that the Pats* offense got crushed by our defense that game without Dareus, Gilmore, or McKelvin.

Look, I would be one of the first to brag when Brady* has lost it. In fact I'd love it as much as everyone else!!

 

what do we know? time and again Brady* has come from behind to to crush Bills fans hopes of beating them. Sorry but to say Brady* would definitely not have scored points is silly.

 

Could that have happened? Sure it could. The probability of him not scoring is very low. Remember THE guy who is hard to tackle, his name id Gronk.... where was he? Could be that was why Brady* was completely frustrated.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

We also were missing key players...why do you keep leaving that out.

lets keep apples with apples.

how does the fact that the Bills were missing D players and Brady being stiffed change the Bills O production? it doesn't

 

Weeks before didn't the Bills D also frustrate P Manning? yet the Bills lost. As I said, I hate to admit that the Bills could keep him to 3 pp QTR, but I have learned to never underestimate Brady* year after year. Had the Putz needed the game the odds are the outcome would have been much different.

 

Tell you guys what. since the reality of it bothers you I'll stop posting that.

peace