Big C Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 OL was so bad. I like the succinct breakdown of the plays but would be nice to see a few broken down in more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 His footwork is atrocious. That's why he's so inaccurate. When he starts to throw he locks his legs. It's gotta flow Usually makes the right read but he's late every single time. Gotta speed it up I get the impression that the coaches think the same thing. Rex's praise of EJ the other day describing the balls coming out faster "pop, pop, pop" highlighted this I think. (Unless I'm remembering it wrong. I'm sure someone will correct me if so.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 One thing that would be cool to see in the future is some sort of helmet lens or something that can actually show what a QB is looking at every play. That would make analyzing their ability to break down defenses in real time a lot easier.You can pretty much tell already but that's the best way to evaluate QBs I think. Not exactly what you are looking for, but his is tech that I think will be standard equipment pretty soon. And our Trent is involved so it will be able to help with check downs ! http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/stanford-cardinal-nfl-virtual-reality-qb-training-031115 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 5-26: DEREK BELCH TALKS VIRTUAL REALITY FOOTBALL TRAINING WITH JOHN MURPHY ON WGR (14:53) San DIego with the stunts really showed teams how to beat our line, pretty easily and consistently. One thing that would be cool to see in the future is some sort of helmet lens or something that can actually show what a QB is looking at every play. That would make analyzing their ability to break down defenses in real time a lot easier.You can pretty much tell already but that's the best way to evaluate QBs I think. I still think the Manuel hate is insane. He's made more plays than any prospect we've had in the last decade and a half. I think between our 3 guys one will step up and play well at QB this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Seems pretty biased.. Just as biased as the EJ detractors perhaps? No excuse can disguise EJs faults. Imo and no faux praise can hide a true detractor Imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) No excuse can disguise EJs faults. Imo It's a comfort to know that everyone in The Bills FO is rock solid behind him and there is no one pushing an agenda to trash him. IMO Edited May 30, 2015 by Nanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Spiller has no clue how to set up blocks on those screens. His football IQ is so bad. Worst oline in the last 30 years for this team. Worst coached Bills offense I've ever seen....including the Jaroun era. There was far more bad then good from EJ. The OP would brush off the check downs or bad throws as pressure or by design or no other options. That's just not true with all of them and QBS MUST make throws under pressure. And at times he does...there are flashes. I get the sense if he was coached in a manner of "just make plays...move around...have fun" that he'd stop being a robotic mess. Im not throwing in the towel on a 3rd year QB who's played 14 games bc our other options are very meh. We'll be better if he succeeds and I want to root for him. Here's to hoping the coaching makes this work. Edited May 30, 2015 by Big Blitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 No excuse can disguise EJs faults. Imo No one here is denying that EJ has serious faults in his game. Having said that, me and others are looking forward to seeing what he does being coached by both a successful NFL head coach and offensive coordinator. Coaching is truly EJ's last possibly valid excuse. There's no denying how bad Marrone and Hackett were because Kyle Orton looked just about as bad as EJ in their offense after his first few starts with the Bills. The beauty is that this is actually going to happen. Opinions will either be vindicated or they won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I tallied every pass that was thrown in these sessions. I thought it would be interesting to see how many passes were 3 step drops - 5 step drops - 7 step drops - less than 3 steps - Play Action/Roll Outs - and Shotgun (If the pass was from the shotgun but was also play action I gave a tally for both). I'm definitely not an expert on what all of this could mean in terms of play calling and how it would correlate to a young QB vs maybe a veteran. I thought everyone could kind of chime in on their thoughts based on this information. My novice observation is clearly shotgun was the overwhelming formation. Manuel struggled IMO throwing off his back foot. Even in the limited drop backs he just doesn't put pressure on that back foot on the last step and doesn't come forward with a confident throw. In the shotgun this was even more obvious to me, he hopped a couple times and then shows lazy footwork and seems to flick the ball instead of coming off the back foot. What does this information mean? What if anything in terms of play calling for a young QB should have been done different by the old coaching staff? Bears Less than 3 - 0 3 step - 2 5 step - 3 7 step - 0 Roll out/Play action - 9 Shotgun - 22 Dolphins Less than 3 - 1 3 step - 0 5 step - 3 7 step - 0 Roll out/Play action - 8 Shotgun - 26 Chargers Less than 3 - 1 3 step - 1 5 step - 0 7 step - 0 Roll out/Play action - 7 Shotgun - 46 Texans Less than 3 - 1 3 step - 1 5 step - 2 7 step - 2 Roll out/Play action - 8 Shotgun - 42 That he struggled so much in shotgun is interesting. In shotgun it is thought that the QB will have more time and availability to read the defense. Of course, we did not offer him much for play action and a run game to help change up that shotgun formation. His footwork being sloppy in the shotgun formation is bad. I do not know why he is struggling out of the shotgun when he ran it so much in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 That he struggled so much in shotgun is interesting. In shotgun it is thought that the QB will have more time and availability to read the defense. Of course, we did not offer him much for play action and a run game to help change up that shotgun formation. His footwork being sloppy in the shotgun formation is bad. I do not know why he is struggling out of the shotgun when he ran it so much in college. Bingo. This kid has been part of a painfully predictable offense for all of his young career. If every fan at home can predict what the Bills were going to do on every down, just think about how easy it was for professional defensive coaches to effectively defend against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 It's a comfort to know that everyone in The Bills FO is rock solid behind him and there is no one pushing an agenda to trash him. IMO You are giving way too much credit. The purported connection to the front office is fantasy. No one in the know could have been so far off on the qb situation among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Bingo. This kid has been part of a painfully predictable offense for all of his young career. If every fan at home can predict what the Bills were going to do on every down, just think about how easy it was for professional defensive coaches to effectively defend against it. You mean like anytime they ran shotgun with cj in the backfield it was a draw or a screen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) I get the impression that the coaches think the same thing. Rex's praise of EJ the other day describing the balls coming out faster "pop, pop, pop" highlighted this I think. (Unless I'm remembering it wrong. I'm sure someone will correct me if so.) About the footwork or the inaccuracy? Hackett talked about EJ trusting what he sees and pulling the trigger more quickly as a cure for inaccuracy. I have reservations about Hackett as an OC, but I think he understood what he saw as a coach of players. I've seen articles quoting Brady on Luck, saying Luck was unusual for a young QB in that he would trust what he saw and make those throws quickly, and that if the QB hesitates then the ball comes out of his hand just a fraction of a second late and it's off. I've seen the same thing quoted by Rodgers that one thing that he felt he'd really improved IMO you can see that in some of the plays on film. There's a throw in game 1 to Chandler where it's thrown behind him, and he gets a hand on it. IMHO the reason it's off is that EJ hesitated a fraction of a second and by the time the ball got to where Chandler was supposed to be, he'd already "been there and moved on". I think timing is an underappreciated aspect of QB play Lee, however, does not have my full confidence as a QB coach. I felt Fitzy regressed under his tutelage, and I felt he threw Geno under the bus after he left, ignoring that as the QB coach he himself should bear some responsibility for player development. Edited May 30, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 About the footwork or the inaccuracy? Hackett talked about EJ trusting what he sees and pulling the trigger more quickly. I have reservations about Hackett as an OC, but I think he understood what he saw as a player coach. I've seen articles quoting Brady on Luck, that he was unusual for a young QB in that he would trust what he saw and make those throws quickly, and that if the QB hesitates then the ball comes out of his hand just a fraction of a second late and it's off. I've seen the same thing quoted by Rodgers. IMO you can see that in some of the plays on film. There's a throw in game 1 to Chandler where it's thrown behind him, and he gets a hand on it. IMHO the reason it's off is that EJ hesitated a fraction of a second and by the time the ball got to where Chandler was supposed to be, he'd already "been there and moved on". Good post. It's the little things that are holding EJ back. Rodgers completely changed his throwing mechanics from college. He had a full three years to develop them with no pressure. Rodgers, IMO, would have been a much different player if he had to play as a rookie. Watch his Cal film. He wasn't ready. To act like Qbs should be all pros as young players is kinda insane. It's a process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 About the footwork or the inaccuracy? ... Neither actually. I was responding to Captain Hindsight's second line... "Usually makes the right read but he's late every single time. Gotta speed it up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Neither actually. I was responding to Captain Hindsight's second line... "Usually makes the right read but he's late every single time. Gotta speed it up". Ah. The connection is, the lateness is IMO a major cause of inaccuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Ah. The connection is, the lateness is IMO a major cause of inaccuracy. I'm hoping that there actually was a Marrone induced pressure whispering in his ear "Don't make a mistake. Don't turn the ball over.", and with that gone EJ's lateness might be somewhat reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I'm hoping that there actually was a Marrone induced pressure whispering in his ear "Don't make a mistake. Don't turn the ball over.", and with that gone EJ's lateness might be somewhat reduced. Maybe, but again IMHO the major factor is being confident enough in what you see to "read and react". Rookies and inexperienced players "read-interpret-react" or "read-verify-react". It makes them late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 This league chews up and spits out players before they have had a chance because fans clamor for "wanting it all right now." Two QBs that come to mind are Steve McNair and Kordell Stewart. McNair sucked out loud but was given the time to slowly work himself up to a respectable passer. Kordell never did but was given the opportunity. EJ has shown some good and bad. Watch Kelly in 86 and 87. Watch Bree's in his first two years. How about Rapelesburger as a rookie on a good team.Some SERIOUS suck out loud moments they fought through on the way to becoming good QBs. Not saying EJ does but would love to see him get the chance this year. Good post. It's the little things that are holding EJ back. Rodgers completely changed his throwing mechanics from college. He had a full three years to develop them with no pressure. Rodgers, IMO, would have been a much different player if he had to play as a rookie. Watch his Cal film. He wasn't ready. To act like Qbs should be all pros as young players is kinda insane. It's a process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Marrone destroyed this team. Orton was no better than EJ and now we still don't know about EJ. I think he will start but I also see the faults others point out. I can not see how EJ can be judged by any of us with Marrone and Hackett running the offense. Well, Marrone is gone now, which is a good thing, however you can blame bad passing ALL on the O line and OC. EJ is now a 58% completion QB with 16 TDs and 12 INTs. That's pretty bad. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15803/ej-manuel Maybe, but again IMHO the major factor is being confident enough in what you see to "read and react". Rookies and inexperienced players "read-interpret-react" or "read-verify-react". It makes them late. He's just inaccurate and throws poorly, which was one the analysis of him coming out of college as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts