The Big Cat Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 When you put it like that, it makes it very clear how much of an idiot Doug Whaley really is. Doug Whaley is singlehandedly quelling opposition to the NFL's trade dearth. And, oh yeah, he's really !@#$ing good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Right now....Shady We get some guards in FA , Get Locker and let him fight it out with EJ. If we can find a QB this season we can go into the playoffs and do some damage with this D even without Kiko. I hope this makes Spikes come back, more likely now with Kiko gone. This has been an excellent off-season so far and I think it will continue. This makes much more sense if you put a laugh track after each sentence. Actually, Once the smoke clears and Shady comes to meet the brass, he may have a change of heart. My concern is this huge O-Line seems better suited for man blocking and Shady, with his skill seems more suited for a zone scheme. I coached 17 years but it was mostly LB's & TE's. and I didn't follow the Eagles so much... but their OL seemed more athletic when healthy and ours are huge. Edited March 4, 2015 by MOVALLEYRANDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baba Booey Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) One thing about our GM, he isn't boring... True!! Edited March 4, 2015 by Baba Booey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Doug Whaley is singlehandedly quelling opposition to the NFL's trade dearth. And, oh yeah, he's really !@#$ing good at it. Like I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I do love the fact that we are relevant and we have a deep run playoff team 'cept one position. If we get a QB that can just stay out of his own way, wildcard a possibility. If we go too conservative and fail to utilize two thoroughbreds ( Watkins & Woods) I think we are only hurting ourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonprophet Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Last season proved that having Kiko is a luxury, a RB who can average 4 yards per attempt is a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Kiko. Before RBs are greatly determined by the line (remember the great Jason Peters) and how well a QB can execute a fake - see RBs in Miami in Marino era. He was great QB but his fakes would get his RBs squashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Kiko. Before RBs are greatly determined by the line (remember the great Jason Peters) and how well a QB can execute a fake - see RBs in Miami in Marino era. He was great QB but his fakes would get his RBs squashed. Uh, won't LBs also be greatly determined by the defensive line? We have the best defensive line in the NFL. And if Kiko is so valuable, why did our defense improve without him? He's a good player but he is so overrated by us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Didn't Kiko prove himself the most expendable guy on the defense last year?? Anyway, Saint Kiko didn't want to be here. One good season now on a gimpy knee. See ya.... Edited March 4, 2015 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Didn't Kiko prove himslef the most expendible guy on the defense last year?? Anyway, Saint Kiko dodn't want to be here. One good season now on a gimpy knee. See ya.... OMG! I'm agreeing with WEO. Kiko was a good player who went from underrated to most overrated in franchise history. Normally if you lose a great player, your team suffers. Our defense got better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 OMG! I'm agreeing with WEO. Kiko was a good player who went from underrated to most overrated in franchise history. Normally if you lose a great player, your team suffers. Our defense got better. Trent Edwards was the most overrated player in franchise history. Kiko was actually decent. The defense got better because Bradham came into his own and Preston Brown was a strong addition. It's not like losing Kiko made the team better. I remain on the fence because of the financials, not because of the players -- Shady is clearly the better one at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) It's 2015. RBs out of college typically lack pass protection skills. The Bills have a 3 down back that can pass protect now, not a rookie that needs a few years to "get it". Spiller after all this time still doesn't "get it" when it comes to pass protection. um Fred. Yes it is 2015 RBs are worth even less now Edited March 4, 2015 by Buffalo Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 OMG! I'm agreeing with WEO. Kiko was a good player who went from underrated to most overrated in franchise history. Normally if you lose a great player, your team suffers. Our defense got better. It will only hurt for a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Has to be put in context to really say. Last year, they lost arguably their best defensive player of 2013 and the defense was actually better than the year before. Top-3 in the NFL. There's not much room to improve from there IMO, so Kiko's value goes down for me for that reason. Now tell me we are getting one of the top-3 running backs in the NFL after likely having to part with CJ Spiller AND Fred Jackson is getting older (34) and I take McCoy all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I bet the girl who gave the BJ for the Kiko jersey didn't vote for McCoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Didn't Kiko prove himself the most expendable guy on the defense last year?? Anyway, Saint Kiko didn't want to be here. One good season now on a gimpy knee. See ya.... Where did you see this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Why are people calling McCoy a top 3 RB? He's more like the 24th best (Football Outsiders) or 55th best (Pro Football Focus) http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/pointcounterpoint-chip-kelly-is-a-genius-and-rex-ryan-is-insane/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) This trade reminds me of the Eric Dickerson, Cornelius Bennett, Greg Bell trade, except we are getting the great RB on the downside of his career and the Eagles are getting the young stud LB.... Edited March 4, 2015 by strive_for_five_guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 This trade reminds me of the Eric Dickerson, Cornelius Bennett, Greg Bell trade, except we are getting the great RB on the downside of his career and the Eagles are getting the young stud LB.... pretty much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Why are people calling McCoy a top 3 RB? He's more like the 24th best (Football Outsiders) or 55th best (Pro Football Focus) http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/pointcounterpoint-chip-kelly-is-a-genius-and-rex-ryan-is-insane/ That article is ridiculous. Neil Paine: Walt, how excited are you to see Shady McCoy out of the division, no longer around to plague your New York Giants like he did in Week 6 of this past season? Walt Hickey: I tried to buy a bottle of champagne but the liquor stores were all closed. So, I decided to go home and write this post with you. I have been gloating to my Eagles friends since the news broke. I will continue to do that until at least Saturday, or until my friend Max punts his McCoy jersey into the East River again, whichever comes first. But then they go on to say McCoy was a shell of his former self haha. We need to upgrade our O Line for sure though. Also didn't PFF football rank McCoy 1st in 2013? He disagreed with Chip Kelly, that is why his production decreased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Why are people calling McCoy a top 3 RB? He's more like the 24th best (Football Outsiders) or 55th best (Pro Football Focus) http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/pointcounterpoint-chip-kelly-is-a-genius-and-rex-ryan-is-insane/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 um Fred. Yes it is 2015 RBs are worth even less now What are second string weak side linebackers worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 This trade reminds me of the Eric Dickerson, Cornelius Bennett, Greg Bell trade, except we are getting the great RB on the downside of his career and the Eagles are getting the young stud LB.... I was young at the time but did Bennett have 2 knees injuries, was part of a bad run defense when healthy, and the Defense improved without him? I like Kiko but come on now. Trent Edwards was the most overrated player in franchise history. Kiko was actually decent. The defense got better because Bradham came into his own and Preston Brown was a strong addition. It's not like losing Kiko made the team better. I remain on the fence because of the financials, not because of the players -- Shady is clearly the better one at present. Good post. I bet the girl who gave the BJ for the Kiko jersey didn't vote for McCoy. But I'm sure such a classy girl has other wonderful things going on in her life. What a deal for that guy though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Turtle Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 This trade reminds me of the Eric Dickerson, Cornelius Bennett, Greg Bell trade, except we are getting the great RB on the downside of his career and the Eagles are getting the young stud LB....In Dickerson's first 3 years as a Colt (40 games), he ran for over 4,000 yards and 27 TDs. Hardly qualifies as a downside. In the three seasons before the trade, the Colts won a total of 12 games. The three seasons after, they won a total of 26. Dickerson made the Colts a much better team. Buffalo posted their worst rushing numbers in their history last season, while posting some of the best defensive numbers. If McCoy and the running game are able to generate post trade Dickerson rushing numbers, they will be a playoff team the next three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'm sorry but I can't sit back and watch this without commenting.... KIKO is a one trick pony, a complete disaster against the run, undersized, and lacks the ability to shed block. Kiko had a terrific front end of his rookie campaign and a horrific back end. I challenge you to throw on the atl and tb tape. Both of which highlight, kikos limitations and over pursuit against the run. Couple this with not one but two ACL injuries in Three seasons, and you have philly trading a KNOWN commodity, one that has proven his worth as a top 3 RB over the last half decade, for an unknown commodity in Kiko, coming off a major injury. Again, please watch the tape, he's absolutely awful against the run. In fact, the non casual bills fan will tell you Preston Brown, had the better rookie campaign this season at LB than Kiko did in 13 I think Whaley and Rex agree with you. In retrospect, nearly every interview I have heard with Whaley, addressing the team overall, he went out of his way to rave about Preston Brown. Perhaps the wheels were spinning on a Kiko trade, for awhile. Would any team, other than the Eagles have given up as much for Kiko? I wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast*eddie Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Loved Kiko his 1st year but how healthy is he now ......... McCoy should be a good add to the running game ( if we have an offencive line that can open holes ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 My feelings are tough to figure out still. First off, I was pissed that kiko was traded. Love the guy. Hoped he'd be a bill for life. Then, looking at our LBs, our best 3, kiko, brown and Bradham, none projects well outside in a 3-4. I understand we'll be running hybrid stuff, but brown and Bradham both cover very well, which is kikos strength imo. Our defense improved greatly without him last seson. I don't think he'll be missed as much as he was loved. Then I realized who we got. Shady. Top 3 back in the league and only 26. I think that he'll be a top back in the league for the duration of his contract.....as long as he's here and not holding out or becoming a distraction. I think doug is doing his best to give his stout D an effective power running offense while he searches for a qb. So far so good. Then I wake up today and feel differently. Still happy to have shady, but not happy we traded kiko for him. I'd have rather kept kiko and, if we wanted to spend big bucks on a rb, sign demarco Murray to a deal similar to shady. I doubt anyone else is going to offer him that much. If we weren't able to sign him, theres more RBs available this year than any. And all much cheaper than McCoy, with much less wear and tear. Would've been happier if we kept kiko and drafted one of the many Rbs in this years draft, while paying them 750k a year. I just think 10mill is a LOT of money to pay a RB. Now, hopefully doug can fix the OLine and get this team to a top 15 in the league and keep the defense in the top 3. While rex needs to call shady and get him fired up to be a buffalo bill. He's an exciting, dynamic player. Hoping he Billieves!!! Don't like matt cassel. Don't wanna discuss him any more than this sentence. Can't wat for his contract to be up and off the team. More hoping, that he proves me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agardin Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I too liked Kiko but McCoy adds more to the team. The downside is the salary hit that could have been spent elsewhere. In a straight up or down vote McCoy wins pretty easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 In Dickerson's first 3 years as a Colt (40 games), he ran for over 4,000 yards and 27 TDs. Hardly qualifies as a downside. In the three seasons before the trade, the Colts won a total of 12 games. The three seasons after, they won a total of 26. Dickerson made the Colts a much better team. Buffalo posted their worst rushing numbers in their history last season, while posting some of the best defensive numbers. If McCoy and the running game are able to generate post trade Dickerson rushing numbers, they will be a playoff team the next three years. I'd call it the downside, maybe peak for Dickerson bc prior to his time in Indy he had four great years with the Rams already. Now we're picking up a RB who's had 6 pretty good to great seasons with Philly, if we get three solid seasons out of him and playoffs/Super Bowl, the deal is worth it in my opinion, but still downside of his career. I hope I'm wrong and Shady outperforms my wildest dreams! Point taken that Indy did improve w Dickerson. While Kiko has some question marks, he is more likely than not still on the upside of his career if I had to bet on it, but, maybe not, bc of the injuries and he might be overrated. Time will tell. I guess one difference then and now is free agency though, so with the Bennett trade, we were getting a stud LB right out of college, and NFL free agency as we know it didn't begin until 1992. Meanwhile, Kikos contract is up at the end of 2016, so would the Bills even be able to count on Kiko beyond then and afford him if he does still has game? If we can get three solid years out of McCoy, probably a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 What are second string weak side linebackers worth? 2nd string? get out of here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Declaring a winner the day after is pointless. Kind of like assigning draft grades at 11PM on May 2nd Ask me again in March 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Kiko. Shady is Spiller 2.0. Our o-line is not suited for his running style. He is NOT a good pass blocker, and is an east west runner. Our o-line can't get out of it's own way not to mention getting to the perimeter to block for him. If I was Shady I would be PO too about being traded to the Bills, because this team is going to make it difficult for him to get his numbers up. Here is my bold prediction: The coaching staff is going to be so frustrated with McCoy that Fred becomes the starter by week 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 Kiko. Shady is Spiller 2.0. Our o-line is not suited for his running style. He is NOT a good pass blocker, and is an east west runner. Our o-line can't get out of it's own way not to mention getting to the perimeter to block for him. If I was Shady I would be PO too about being traded to the Bills, because this team is going to make it difficult for him to get his numbers up. Here is my bold prediction: The coaching staff is going to be so frustrated with McCoy that Fred becomes the starter by week 6. I'll take that bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I'll take that bet. I'm sure you are as confident than what you were saying about Incognito Kiko. Shady is Spiller 2.0. Our o-line is not suited for his running style. He is NOT a good pass blocker, and is an east west runner. Our o-line can't get out of it's own way not to mention getting to the perimeter to block for him. If I was Shady I would be PO too about being traded to the Bills, because this team is going to make it difficult for him to get his numbers up. Here is my bold prediction: The coaching staff is going to be so frustrated with McCoy that Fred becomes the starter by week 6. There were some mentions of that on the Eagles board. We have a worse line than the Eagles too. I will predict a decline from his time in Philly but I don't think it will be as catastrophic as your scenerio. Edited March 5, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 I'm sure you are as confident than what you were saying about Incognito I was 100% wrong on Incognito and owned it. Take the bet if you doubt it. If McCoy gets demoted below Fred by week 6 of the season (not counting injury) you have to change your handle to "Mrs. Schopp". If Fred starts by week 6, I'll change my name to "BuffaloBillsForever'sBitch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I was 100% wrong on Incognito and owned it. Take the bet if you doubt it. If McCoy gets demoted below Fred by week 6 of the season (not counting injury) you have to change your handle to "Mrs. Schopp". If Fred starts by week 6, I'll change my name to "BuffaloBillsForever'sBitch". I think it would be a wise move to cut Fred let alone the starting back at any point in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think it would be a wise move to cut Fred let alone the starting back at any point in the year. So then you agree with my position and are just being a dick to be a dick. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 So then you agree with my position and are just being a dick to be a dick. Got it. You are constantly riding JTSP, sometimes your thoughts are just as egregious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohninMinn. Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Obviously we had super bowl caliber defense without Kiko. This team improves with a highly skilled offensive weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 You are constantly riding JTSP, sometimes your thoughts are just as egregious. If you bother to read JTSP's history, you'd see he's a troll with a lot of emotional baggage who spends his time spreading hate, not information. He's homophobic, antisemetic, and generally a pretty lousy person overall (at least his internet persona). This is all on top of being a piss-poor Bills fan who doesn't actually like the Bills, JTSP just likes trolling Bills fans on this board. The guy is a clown and a troll and this board would be a better place if he left it -- like it was a better place before he joined. Unlike JTSP, I will discuss things and debate them. I'm not claiming to be prescient, and the Incognito call wasn't my first miss and won't be my last. I just have a pretty high opinion of my knowledge of the game and this team based on a number of factors. But details aren't important to people like you. You think Schopp is good at his job after all. Now, unless you're related to JTSP, can we bury whatever imaginary beef you've created in your mind and focus on football? I assure you, JTSP doesn't need (or want) you to fight his battles for him. He doesn't believe half the **** he types, he only types it to piss people off. So, let's focus on what matters. Namely, how someone who seems somewhat intelligent can argue that the Bills are in worse shape today than they were a few days ago. That seems to be the side you're landing on, I'd love to know more about that and why you think Whaley is destroying this team with his myopic strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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