Rex Ryan completely understands offenses

[DirtDart]

The defensive genius who "gameplanned for, and had his dick handed to him twice (55 point margin) this year, by the Buffalo Kyle Ortons is going to "fix" our offense?

 

Hilarious.

Thankfully somebody else said it. I was afraid if I had, the sky would really fall down.

[Malazan]

You can understand something to a great deal. You can have the best ideas ever. You have to execute them though which is where things become messy.

[BillsVet]

Hmm. The end justifies the means eh?

 

Don't confuse "outcome" with "competence" though. In a modern war, population size and industrial capacity are king.

 

It also REALLY helps if you have an ally who gave up 25 million of its people in deaths alone to kill off 80% of your enemy.

Do you want me to slow this down for the kids on the short bus?

Lighten up Francis.

[Mr. WEO]

Hmm. The end justifies the means eh?

 

Don't confuse "outcome" with "competence" though. In a modern war, population size and industrial capacity are king.

 

It also REALLY helps if you have an ally who gave up 25 million of its people in deaths alone to kill off 80% of your enemy.

Do you want me to slow this down for the kids on the short bus?

 

 

I think we hav efound another gem!

 

Keep it coming man--this is good stuff.

[Mikie2times]

I think the logic makes sense, but I also think it has too much of a vacuum disposition. X's and O's, yes I think Rex understands offense. At the level the NFL plays, as far as coaching offensive players to give them that microscopic advantage, one that is absolutely required for success, no, I don't think Rex has any understanding of that. For example, is he going to watch a QB drop and notice that the footwork was just a shade off, the arm angle wasn't high enough, the motion is somewhat flawed, the Receiver was not using the correct footwork out of certain breaks, the lineman not using the correct footwork out of blocks. I know he can answer all those types of things as they relate to defensive players. He knows the X's and O's and he knows the proper technique and how to coach it. While it's just an opinion, I don't think he understands offensive technique at an NFL level, he might understand the X's and O's, but not all the millions of details within it. Which is likely what makes him such a great defensive guy, that complete understanding of the entire side of the ball.

[Mike in Horseheads]

 

Incredible. It's the Allies' fault so many lives were lost in a war started by the Axis.

 

I'm well aware of Rommel and his genius, I'm also well versed in the war and its politics. I was poking fun and making the point that it's easy to assume Rommel could have pulled off his 14 day march to victory because he never had to do it. Just like it's easy to assume X,Y, Z about a coach, player, or game -- but that doesn't mean it's going to play out that way. That's all.

Germans didn't count on Col Hogan and his team!

...Oh yah we have Hogan on the team, wonder if he'll be around next year.

[K-9]

Are you asking whether or not Ryan or other great DCs know enough about offenses to be offensive coordinators themselves? Interesting thesis. I don't think that's the case, though. What great DCs know and understand from watching hour upon hour of an offense in every conceivable game situation, is what you CAN'T do as an offense. And it reveals itself rather quickly. Once done, great DCs will seek to take away what you CAN do. Inevitably, what you CAN and CANNOT do on offense is tied to the proficiency of your QB, which is why pressure packages are key. And when it comes to devising pressure packages, Ryan is among the best. But I think little of what enables a DC to be successful is precluded by having to have a great offensive mind.

 

Regardless, I always feel players trump schemes. Bad players make geniuses look like idiots and vice versa, on both sides of the ball.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

Are you asking whether or not Ryan or other great DCs know enough about offenses to be offensive coordinators themselves? Interesting thesis. I don't think that's the case, though. What great DCs know and understand from watching hour upon hour of an offense in every conceivable game situation, is what you CAN'T do as an offense. And it reveals itself rather quickly. Once done, great DCs will seek to take away what you CAN do. Inevitably, what you CAN and CANNOT do on offense is tied to the proficiency of your QB, which is why pressure packages are key. And when it comes to devising pressure packages, Ryan is among the best. But I think little of what enables a DC to be successful is precluded by having to have a great offensive mind.

 

Regardless, I always feel players trump schemes. Bad players make geniuses look like idiots and vice versa, on both sides of the ball.

 

GO BILLS!!!

By studying offenses way more than defenses, in order to understand what they do well and how to stop it, he must likely know what works and why. If he understand how to stop great offenses better than anyone, perhaps he understands the routes to success, too. And why stuff worked against other defenses than his. It's just hypothetical. I'm not saying he does. I'm wondering if he almost has to understand them better than most, or he couldn't stop them.

[BillsBytheBay]

Late in the morning of June 6, 1944, Erwin Rommel got in his staff car in his home town in western Germany, and asked the driver to get him near Normandy as fast as possible. He had just caught wind of the allied landings there.

 

Rommel had been home for his wife's birthday on this critical day, and Rommel (along with Gerd von Rundstedt) was in charge of German defenses along the Atlantic Wall.

 

As the staff car drove for hours heading into France, Rommel sat in silence. His chief of staff, Lang, did not want to bother him, as Rommel was lost in concentration.

 

Upon arrival in France hours later, Rommel declared "Do you know what, Lang? If I was commander of the Allied forces right now, I could finish off this war in fourteen days."

 

It became apparent to Lang that for a period of many hours, Rommel had been fighting the war in his head, like a chess master. He was thinking multiple moves ahead, calculating what he would do to defend, what the Allies should do to counter-act, how Rommel would have to respond to that, and so on...and concluded that if he was in charge of the allied invasion of Normandy, he could end the war in a fortnight's time.

 

You can't understand defense without understanding offense, and vice versa.

 

This is obvious.

 

(As a total aside and having nothing to do with this thread), it is interesting to note that Rommel's 14 days to war's end turned into Eisenhower's ELEVEN MONTHS.

he should've unleashed Patton.

[Kelly the Dog]

he should've unleashed Patton.

Marvcus?

[Mojo44]

Not any coach can get the opposite side of the ball. Certainly rex can't get offense like doug coached up our defense. Mojo knows this, but the rest of the league simply doesn't get how special doug is

1. I didn't bring up Marrone in my post. You did. I was responding to the OP which is about Ryan and my concerns about him. In the process you continue to insult me without provocation.

 

2. You still haven't responded to how the GM is ultimately tesponsible for a team's W-L record more so than the HC. If you don't want to discuss it don't respond to my posts. Simple enough.

[Alaska Darin]

This is the guy who sets the standard.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview09/columns/story?id=4443119

 

If Ryan is doing less, then he's fighting a battle with one hand tied behind his back. I read another article (that I can't find) that explains how much time Belichick spends on offense and how it's helped him prepare defenses. Yesterday was an example of his genius - he chewed Pagano up and spit him out - on both sides of the ball.

[K-9]

By studying offenses way more than defenses, in order to understand what they do well and how to stop it, he must likely know what works and why. If he understand how to stop great offenses better than anyone, perhaps he understands the routes to success, too. And why stuff worked against other defenses than his. It's just hypothetical. I'm not saying he does. I'm wondering if he almost has to understand them better than most, or he couldn't stop them.

Oh he definitely understands offenses. But I don't think a DC has the same proficiency at designing offenses and vice versa. At the risk of sounding nerdy, OCs and DCs look at the game from different geographical planes and motions within those planes.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Rockinon]

Watching the Jets through the years, I have been surprised by the playcalling on offense many, many times and thought to myself, "Why can't the Bills draw up a play like that!".

[3rdand12]

Oh he definitely understands offenses. But I don't think a DC has the same proficiency at designing offenses and vice versa. At the risk of sounding nerdy, OCs and DCs look at the game from different geographical planes and motions within those planes.

 

GO BILLS!!!

beyond nerdy K-9. But i get what you are saying. perspective is everything.

As a head Coach Ryan, has to empower his coordinators. But first he has to believe that the method is correct.

[Solomon Grundy]

Sure he does!! His first order of business is to fix/strengthen the offensive line. That's where it all begins folks!

[Fadingpain]

Lighten up Francis.

Thought you were interested in WWII.

 

Keep reading.

[Webster Guy]

i could stick my head up a butchers ass, but i'd rather take the bulls word for it...... no wait...

[Lurker]

You can understand something to a great deal. You can have the best ideas ever. You have to execute them though which is where things become messy.

Agreed, but in the sense that you (i.e., the HC) don't execute them...your players do.

 

Talent (or lack thereof) is a big part of the on-the-field performance. But so is good coaching, which is about communicating, teaching and instilling discipline/accountability so the players will execute on a regular, repeatable basis.

 

Rex talks about all of this, but as they say about talk....

This is the guy who sets the standard.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview09/columns/story?id=4443119.

Great read. Thanks for passing it along...

[NoSaint]

1. I didn't bring up Marrone in my post. You did. I was responding to the OP which is about Ryan and my concerns about him. In the process you continue to insult me without provocation.

 

2. You still haven't responded to how the GM is ultimately tesponsible for a team's W-L record more so than the HC. If you don't want to discuss it don't respond to my posts. Simple enough.

But you did bring up marrones defensive prowess several times before, which in a discussion about whether an DC could get offense seems a relevant tie in from our recent discussions.