Punching Bag Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 This whole thread is a Circus, discussing nothing but rumors. Buffalo Media has become the Keystone cops or midget (mind) circus if you prefer and this spectacle will hurt recruitment effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Three rings? We gonna get three rings? Here in B'lo? Lordy lordy where's the Pardy? I think I just died and the Devil escorted me to his Frozen realm! Exactly what popped into my brain after I typed that. Loved your Bills fan/Lucifer post a couple days ago. (mind you I shoulda seen it coming, but, for some reason I was focusing on the weather...I was thinking you were going towards when it's too tough for them it's just right for us...& I totally missed hell freezing over.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 But what if it's that Buddy hooks up with Kim? Then we would have a real soap opera... Why do you think Buddy's contract is not being renewed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 How did they cut off their nose? I dont know what type of demands Marrone made, but not figuring out a way to make both sides happy and come to a compromise seems like a very pig-headed move. If this is really over an extension, then the Bills screwed up. How do you let your first winning coach walk over a couple million dollars, when you are going to end up paying someone else even more and have to start over. When Brandon and Co. preached continuity to us, they werent wrong. It is a major ingredient to the historically winning teams. Now we're going to end up paying some coach $4-6mil/year, while still paying Marrone $4mil. That'll be $10mil invested in the HC spot this year and we're going to end up with someone like Gase??? Wonderful. They shouldve just got it done with Doug and kept the ball rolling nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineMoxie Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Please God....Let the sex part involve Kim......NOT Buddy Nix Thank you for ruining my breakfast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I dont know what type of demands Marrone made, but not figuring out a way to make both sides happy and come to a compromise seems like a very pig-headed move. If this is really over an extension, then the Bills screwed up. How do you let your first winning coach walk over a couple million dollars, when you are going to end up paying someone else even more and have to start over. When Brandon and Co. preached continuity to us, they werent wrong. It is a major ingredient to the historically winning teams. Now we're going to end up paying some coach $4-6mil/year, while still paying Marrone $4mil. That'll be $10mil invested in the HC spot this year and we're going to end up with someone like Gase??? Wonderful. They shouldve just got it done with Doug and kept the ball rolling nicely. im not convinced they won't give a HC more power over personnel (control over 53 for example instead of just gameday roster). I just don't think they were willing to give it to Marrone. At least not yet. I don't have an issue with that. What has he ever done to prove that he would handle that competently? Edited January 3, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 How do owners go behind a subordinates back? And Brandon is strictly the marketing guy now. If he didn't know that before, he does now. Just saying what I read from a Polian article. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I dont know what type of demands Marrone made, but not figuring out a way to make both sides happy and come to a compromise seems like a very pig-headed move. If this is really over an extension, then the Bills screwed up. How do you let your first winning coach walk over a couple million dollars, when you are going to end up paying someone else even more and have to start over. When Brandon and Co. preached continuity to us, they werent wrong. It is a major ingredient to the historically winning teams. Now we're going to end up paying some coach $4-6mil/year, while still paying Marrone $4mil. That'll be $10mil invested in the HC spot this year and we're going to end up with someone like Gase??? Wonderful. They shouldve just got it done with Doug and kept the ball rolling nicely. Let me put your mind to rest. The Bills will enter the 2015 season with a strong defense (they will retain Hughes) and a much improved offensive line. EJ will battle for the #1 spot with the best of this lot or Sam Bradford. The Bills will sign a HC who is at least as ready for the NFL as Doug II was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) im not convinced they won't give a HC more power over personnel (control over 53 for example instead of just gameday roster). I just don't think they were willing to give it to Marrone. At least not yet. I don't have an issue with that. Even worse then, imo. If they didnt want to give it to Marrone, but are willing to give it to someone like Gase or Reich, then I dont know what the hell is going on over there. At lease Marrone was here for 2 years, and there was most likely a feasible record of why he would want that. So we dont give him a slight raise, we dont give him more power, but we will go spend twice the money having to hire some first-time HC and give him said power? Yikes. Sounds more like Pegula is just winging it in that case. Let me put your mind to rest. The Bills will enter the 2015 season with a strong defense (they will retain Hughes) and a much improved offensive line. EJ will battle for the #1 spot with the best of this lot or Sam Bradford. The Bills will sign a HC who is at least as ready for the NFL as Doug II was. I like it! Thanks BB I'll admit there is plenty of time, and plenty of things they can do, to get this back on track. Re-signing Hughes would be a big one. I dont expect much as far as adding QBs goes, because there is simply a lack of talent out there, but my hopes are high for EJ. Its the HC part that is really sticking in my craw. At least we have the D and ST nailed down, and I guess we needed an improvement on O anyways. But damn, Im sick of this franchise not being able to maintain any stability of consistency whatsoever. Edited January 3, 2015 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Even worse then, imo. If they didnt want to give it to Marrone, but are willing to give it to someone like Gase or Reich, then I dont know what the hell is going on over there. At lease Marrone was here for 2 years, and there was most likely a feasible record of why he would want that. So we dont give him a slight raise, we dont give him more power, but we will go spend twice the money having to hire some first-time HC and give him said power? Yikes. Sounds more like Pegula is just winging it in that case. Gase or Reich may not want it. There are 9 coaches out if 32 in the league who have control over the 53. Fisher, Belichick, Carroll, Kelly, O'Brien, Payton, Philbin, Smith, Tomlin. What has Marrone done to demand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I usually tend to lean towards being a homer and giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt, but waking up today and seeing reports that our list of candidates goes Quinn, Gase, Reich, and McDaniels has me questioning how deeply I want to invest in this team. Trying to see the bright side of all this, but it's tough. Folks saying Marrone "lost" this are incorrect, imo. It was a win-win for him and the Bills cut off their nose to spite their face, at least thats how it looks to me right now. I dont think its really a "circus" per se, but it's definitely chaos at OBD. IMO, the team is at it's first crossroads with our new big-time owner. How he responds to this is going to set the tone for years to come. I doubt this is the entire list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Gase or Reich may not want it. There are 9 coaches out if 32 in the league who have control over the 53. Fisher, Belichick, Carroll, Kelly, O'Brien, Payton, Philbin, Smith, Tomlin. What has Marrone done to demand that? I dont know, or think, that he was asking for complete control over the 53. I believe he was just asking to have a more weighted input. Again, I could be wrong. What has Kelly, O'Brien or Philbin done to deserve it? I doubt this is the entire list. I do too. But at the risk of sounding like a whiny baby, outside of getting a Cowher or Gruden, any hire will be disappointing to me. If you are going to let Marrone walk, and have the resources Pegula has, then only an obvious upgrade will be satisfactory. Otherwise, they shouldve just given Marrone what he wanted. Why take 3 steps forward if you are just going to take 2 steps back right in the middle of turning the team around and changing the culture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I dont know, or think, that he was asking for complete control over the 53. I believe he was just asking to have a more weighted input. Again, I could be wrong. What has Kelly, O'Brien or Philbin done to deserve it? He was. Those 3 may or may not deserve it but that doesn't mean the Bills need to give it to Marrone if they don't think he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I do too. But at the risk of sounding like a whiny baby, outside of getting a Cowher or Gruden, any hire will be disappointing to me. If you are going to let Marrone walk, and have the resources Pegula has, then only an obvious upgrade will be satisfactory. Otherwise, they shouldve just given Marrone what he wanted. Why take 3 steps forward if you are just going to take 2 steps back right in the middle of turning the team around and changing the culture? Cowher and Gruden have been out of the game too long. Neither seems ready to take on the duties required of being a HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 This should all be expected. This is an ownership change. People are fighting over power, money, influence, future employment. There is also a lot of backstabbing going on. I have some advice.......... Clean House.....EVERYONE is fired, even the ball boys. This place is infected and you are smelling up the place. "Scorch the Earth" is the easy out as advice. Of course, it typically winds up burning down useful trees and buildings as well as weeds. He was. Those 3 may or may not deserve it but that doesn't mean the Bills need to give it to Marrone if they don't think he does. How do you know Marrone was asking for complete control over the 53 man roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "Scorch the Earth" is the easy out as advice. Of course, it typically winds up burning down useful trees and buildings as well as weeds. How do you know Marrone was asking for complete control over the 53 man roster? source close to Polian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Cowher and Gruden have been out of the game too long. Neither seems ready to take on the duties required of being a HC. They've been out, but not away. Especially Gruden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I know I'll get lamb basted for this, but why not Steve Mariucci? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Announced, when was it announced by Terry P? I must have missed that press conference. All it is is more speculation, someone taking something that was said and twisting the words around, over analyzing them to come to some conclusion and then passing that along. I find it a bit strange that there's been no comment whatsoever from Terry P re this entire Polian hire thing which makes me wonder how close they really were to a deal? Pegula, who announces that the new HC will not be reporting to Whaley, leaving his role up in the air. And any of this might be inaccurate. Confusion, greed, betrayal, backstabbing, power plays... We just need a little sex to top it off. The Bills organization is on the verge of becoming a laughing stock, if it isn't already. What do the Pegulas have to do now to turn this debacle into something positive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 He was. Those 3 may or may not deserve it but that doesn't mean the Bills need to give it to Marrone if they don't think he does. We dont know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 The Bills organization is on the verge of becoming a laughing stock, if it isn't already. LOL on the verge? What, before this they were a respected NFL franchise? Who's next to "become" a laughingstock? Oakland or Jacksonville? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) We dont know that.I actually do know. I don't know what has been reported, but that's real information, take it or leave it. Edited January 3, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 The Bills may not be a playoff team, but their offseasons are entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 They've been out, but not away. Especially Gruden. It's still not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 The Head Coach Leaves. The GM was almost ousted but is now leading the head coaching search. This off-season has been pretty crazy after a 9-7 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 It's still not the same. I fully understand your concern here, but Im just not that worried about it. Cowher wouldnt be an Xs and Os guy for me, and Gruden is still an offensive mastermind. We're not talking about bringing back 70 year old Gibbs or 80 year old Levy. Theyre both in their 50s (Gruden just barely) and have plenty left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Even worse then, imo. If they didnt want to give it to Marrone, but are willing to give it to someone like Gase or Reich, then I dont know what the hell is going on over there. At lease Marrone was here for 2 years, and there was most likely a feasible record of why he would want that. So we dont give him a slight raise, we dont give him more power, but we will go spend twice the money having to hire some first-time HC and give him said power? Yikes. Sounds more like Pegula is just winging it in that case. I like it! Thanks BB I'll admit there is plenty of time, and plenty of things they can do, to get this back on track. Re-signing Hughes would be a big one. I dont expect much as far as adding QBs goes, because there is simply a lack of talent out there, but my hopes are high for EJ. Its the HC part that is really sticking in my craw. At least we have the D and ST nailed down, and I guess we needed an improvement on O anyways. But damn, Im sick of this franchise not being able to maintain any stability of consistency whatsoever. Overdorf says Jerry Hughes doesn't fit the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) We've heard stories before that the Old Guard (Littman, Berchtold, Overdorf, and maybe a few others) viewed themselves as the heart of the team and weren't anxious to change things for a coach when we all know coaches come and go. According to TG, Marrone's beef was mostly with the Old Guard, not so much with Whaley. Rumor has it that Whaley himself has been frustrated with the Old Guard as he tries to change the organization. Polian was fired because he had conflict with the Old Guard, particularly Littman. And this shows you how powerful the Old Guard was. When Ralph had to choose between the guy who built the Bills into a SB contender or the Old Guard, he chose the Old Guard. Pegula needs to dismantle the Old Guard. And that's what he seems to be doing. Littman, probably seeing the writing on the wall, retired. None of the Old Guard will be involved in the HC interviews (contrary to initial reports). And none of the Old Guard will have any authority over our new coach who will report directly to the Pegulas. And these are just the first steps we've learned. I'm sure Pegula has an overarching strategic plan though he's still assessing things, too. Of course, he's not sharing the plan or the assessments with us. But his first moves are dropping some telling hints. I don't see a circus. I see hope. We've known for a long time (since Polian was wrongly fired, at least) that OBD needs to change. Now we see signs of change. It's about time. Edited January 3, 2015 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "Scorch the Earth" is the easy out as advice. Of course, it typically winds up burning down useful trees and buildings as well as weeds. How do you know Marrone was asking for complete control over the 53 man roster? Dumping a load of bull **** is sometimes necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 We've heard stories before that the Old Guard (Littman - now thankfully retired, Berchtold, and a few others) viewed themselves as the heart of the team and weren't anxious to change things for a coach when we all know coaches come and go. According to TG, Marrone's beef was mostly with the Old Guard, not so much with Whaley. Rumor has it that Whaley himself has been frustrated with the Old Guard as he tries to change the organization. Polian was fired because he had conflict with the Old Guard, particularly Littman. And this shows you how powerful the Old Guard was. When Ralph had to choose between the guy who built the Bills into a SB contender or the Old Guard, he chose the Old Guard. Pegula needs to dismantle the Old Guard. Great post! One of the best posts Ive seen in awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) I usually tend to lean towards being a homer and giving the Bills the benefit of the doubt, but waking up today and seeing reports that our list of candidates goes Quinn, Gase, Reich, and McDaniels has me questioning how deeply I want to invest in this team. . "The Bills have formally requested permission to interview four potential candidates for their vacant head coach position including: Seahawks offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell, Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase, Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels and Seattle defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, according to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. Buffalo is also reportedly trying to set up an interview with Chargers offensive coordinator Frank Reich before he interviews with the Jets, according to the Buffalo News." So to date: Bevell, Gase, McDaniels, Quinn, Reich, and interest in Schwartz has been mentioned. That's already a more inclusive list than I've seen in previous Bills HC searches - who did we look at before we hired Gailey? Before we hired Marrone? And what was our timeline for deciding who to interview, before? This is the first time I can recall that the need to interview for a HC was followed by immediate action scheduling interviews. Prior to Gailey, I seem to remember a couple weeks of no apparent action, followed by "chan who?' Keep in mind that playoffs are driving the timing right now; Bevell, Gase, and Quinn can interview this weekend only because their teams are in a bye, and there may be other candidates we'd like to interview whose current teams are actively preparing this week. Others might barf, I would like to see them talk to Kubiak and he isn't even taking calls at present, I will admit that of that list, Reich seems a choice who is under-qualified, has not yet accomplished anything much offensively despite a good QB, and driven by nostalgia. I expect he is being interviewed in large part because of the Polian recommendation. I am also not a fan of McDaniels, but one must admit he nursed the Pats offense successfully through a (relatively) bad season from Brady without Gronk or other favorite targets. Edited January 3, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Only people calling it a debacle or circus are melodramatic Bills fans. or WGR employees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 We've heard stories before that the Old Guard (Littman, Berchtold, Overdorf, and maybe a few others) viewed themselves as the heart of the team and weren't anxious to change things for a coach when we all know coaches come and go. According to TG, Marrone's beef was mostly with the Old Guard, not so much with Whaley. Rumor has it that Whaley himself has been frustrated with the Old Guard as he tries to change the organization. Polian was fired because he had conflict with the Old Guard, particularly Littman. And this shows you how powerful the Old Guard was. When Ralph had to choose between the guy who built the Bills into a SB contender or the Old Guard, he chose the Old Guard. Pegula needs to dismantle the Old Guard. And that's what he seems to be doing. Littman, probably seeing the writing on the wall, retired. None of the Old Guard will be involved in the HC interviews (contrary to initial reports). And none of the Old Guard will have any authority over our new coach who will report directly to the Pegulas. And these are just the first steps we've learned. I'm sure Pegula has an overarching strategic plan though he's still assessing things, too. Of course, he's not sharing the plan or the assessments with us. But his first moves are dropping some telling hints. I don't see a circus. I see hope. We've known for a long time (since Polian was wrongly fired, at least) that OBD needs to change. Now we see signs of change. It's about time. I like your take, and it is hopeful. What i don't like is, and I posted in another thread, if it's true the HC will report to Pegulas, then Polian/Marrone comments help undermine Whaley's influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivermont Mike Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 It's only a circus outside the organization due to rumors and media speculation. Inside, I'm sure the Pegulas have a plan. You don't get to that level without one. Remain calm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 This should all be expected. This is an ownership change. People are fighting over power, money, influence, future employment. There is also a lot of backstabbing going on. I have some advice.......... Clean House.....EVERYONE is fired, even the ball boys. This place is infected and you are smelling up the place. This. And start with Brandon. He and the rest of the old timers will be gone in time. It's just a question of how much before Pegula catches on to everyone. Much quicker, easier, and proactive to just gut the place now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivermont Mike Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Sanest reply that I've seen on this board in a few days. I don't care what business you're in--when new ownership steps in after a long-term owner leaves, there's always a transition period. People who feel threatened leave, and the ones who are over-entrenched start throwing haymakers to protect their "turf." That's what's happening now. Graham and others are being fed a steady diet of information that makes the Bills organization appear to be in turmoil. Maybe the "sources" are thinking that the Pegulas are going to go with the status quo seeing that they need a new HC, OC, potentially a DC, and a QB. Their time, like Whaley's, will come. Every new ownership group (regardless of the industry) picks a trustworthy guy from the old regime to help with the transition. When the transition is complete, he's either proven himself loyal or he's gone. The unseen entrenched are toast. They're getting their shots in now, but either Whaley or a new GM will clean house. Various posters have suggested that the Pegulas have a strategy and we should just remain calm. They're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 This. And start with Brandon. He and the rest of the old timers will be gone in time. It's just a question of how much before Pegula catches on to everyone. Much quicker, easier, and proactive to just gut the place now. Including Whaley,Schwartz, the D staff?, The player personnel department guys like Monos and Fisher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Including Whaley,Schwartz, the D staff?, The player personnel department guys like Monos and Fisher? No, that would be too much right now, just all of Ralph's stooges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 No, that would be too much right now, just all of Ralph's stooges. Agreed! Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.-someone. "show me the baby"-Buddy Nix and a few more cliches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 The source of all of that speculation is Tim Graham. 'Nuff said. I don't believe any of it unless he names his source. Otherwise I think he is just speculating as has no source. Just stirring things up and I'm not buying any of it. You may be right about Tim Graham. Look at this passage from his article today: "A source close to the situation told The News that executives from previous owner Ralph Wilson’s regime – eager to maintain their power – badmouthed Polian in Marrone’s presence during the season." Is Graham claiming these executives are eager to maintain power, or is he saying that is what his sources say? And do these sources have a stake in spinning what might be an innocent conversation this way? This is sneaky, biased journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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