Russ Brandon - The [Silent] Common Denominator

[K-9]

Agreed that its moot of course. Not only do i not agree that Ralph would have allowed it, but id go as far to say Russ would have never even proposed it to Mr. Wilson. You and i have been following this team long enough to know that that was never Ralphs style.

 

I think we could all agree that we have FO issues and its not scouting.

 

I'll just say Mr. Wilson was never above taking a risk on certain trades over the years. I'll leave it at that and we can agree to disagree.

 

I'll let my scout friends know you promoted them to the FO. Seriously, they'll be flattered and get a kick out of it. It's a grind for these guys where the rubber meets the road so to speak and there is a certain level of "us against the suits" mentality. Just like the rest of the corporate world.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TSOL]

 

 

I'll just say Mr. Wilson was never above taking a risk on certain trades over the years. I'll leave it at that and we can agree to disagree.

 

I'll let my scout friends know you promoted them to the FO. Seriously, they'll be flattered and get a kick out of it. It's a grind for these guys where the rubber meets the road so to speak and there is a certain level of "us against the suits" mentality. Just like the rest of the corporate world.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I love our scouts!

Happy Holidays and

Beat the Pats

Edited December 24, 2014 by mastershake

[3rdand12]

Why stop at Russ? Some of the ladies in the secretarial pool have been around too long as well.

But they still provide a valuable service. as does Russ.

[Kelly the Dog]

Put it this way: You are the new owner or President of a big tech company. You don't really know everything about all the technology and history and details that goes into the super hi-tech product you make, but you have strong opinions and working knowledge. You know how to run a big company. You DON'T want the people who do know this to walk up to you and say, "We hired a guy to run all our operations last week" and walk out. You want them to approach you beforehand and say "We want to hire this guy to run all of our operations and here is why, what do you think?"

 

You ask some good questions and they answer them. You now know more about this guy they're hiring. And you're going to feel like this company is in good hands, you're not going to tell them to hire a different guy. That's not your strength. But you want everything to run through you.

[3rdand12]

:thumbsup: This is a failed organization - total failure - tear it down and start again.

 

And your source for this is????

:thumbsup: This is a failed organization - total failure - tear it down and start again.

 

And your source for this is????

Dude. seriously ?????

[TXBILLSFAN]

I think those of you adamantly defending RB are missing an important distinction between a normal corporation and an NFL franchise. For an NFL franchise, FOOTBALL and what happens on the field is the business. You are all going to great pains to draw this black and white line between the "business side" and the "football side". The two are so comingled with each other it's next to impossible to do that.

 

That's like saying a 5 star general isn't involved in a war or that an owner of a restaurant isn't involved in the food that is served.

 

I don't fault RB one bit for being involved in the Marrone hire, the Whaley promotion, the Watkins trade. In fact, I expect him to be involved and to be heavily involved, discussing pros and cons. For crying out loud, he was the CEO of the team, if he wasn't involved he ought to be fired for negligence.

 

 

 

 

[mannc]

 

 

I'm willing to bet that in all his years evaluating personnel, compiling and reading scouting reports, Doug Whaley didn't see more than a handful of ratings higher than Sammy Watkins'. A unanimous blue chip prospect if there ever was one.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I don't doubt that, but it does not excuse Whaley if Watkins turns out to be something other than a perennial pro bowler. Whaley gets paid a lot of money to make the right decision for the Buffalo Bills, and the excuse that a lot of other "experts" also really liked Watkins does not hold much water, IMO. I have no doubt that a lot of other scouts loved Big Mike Williams coming out of U. of Texas, but that doesn't mean Donahoe is not on the hook for being the sucker who fell for him.

 

That Watkins had an extremely high draft grade does not mean Whaley made the right decision. I find it highly relevant that (1) another player at the same position who was taken after the Bills' original slot has thus far dramatically outperformed Watkins; (2) that one of the stated rationales for the deal (giving EJ the weapons to help him develop into a franchise QB) became inoperative four games into the season; and (3) the Bills failed to make the playoffs, despite the trade up, and in fact our offense regressed, if that's possible. The last point is important. It means that Watkins was not in fact the final piece that would put the Bills over the edge and that the pick we gifted the Browns will be in the middle of the first round, rather than at the end of it. It also means that the Bills are farther away from consistently winning than Whaley had supposed and therefore are more in need of a first round pick this year than he supposed. Watkins might well turn out to be a superstar who justifies the deal, but the early indications are not positive and I have to say, Whaley's first draft (assuming 2013 was not his) is not looking that great.

 

 

[K-9]

I don't doubt that, but it does not excuse Whaley if Watkins turns out to be something other than a perennial pro bowler. Whaley gets paid a lot of money to make the right decision for the Buffalo Bills, and the excuse that a lot of other "experts" also really liked Watkins does not hold much water, IMO. I have no doubt that a lot of other scouts loved Big Mike Williams coming out of U. of Texas, but that doesn't mean Donahoe is not on the hook for being the sucker who fell for him.

 

That Watkins had an extremely high draft grade does not mean Whaley made the right decision. I find it highly relevant that (1) another player at the same position who was taken after the Bills' original slot has thus far dramatically outperformed Watkins; (2) that one of the stated rationales for the deal (giving EJ the weapons to help him develop into a franchise QB) became inoperative four games into the season; and (3) the Bills failed to make the playoffs, despite the trade up, and in fact our offense regressed, if that's possible. The last point is important. It means that Watkins was not in fact the final piece that would put the Bills over the edge and that the pick we gifted the Browns will be in the middle of the first round, rather than at the end of it. It also means that the Bills are farther away from consistently winning than Whaley had supposed and therefore are more in need of a first round pick this year than he supposed. Watkins might well turn out to be a superstar who justifies the deal, but the early indications are not positive and I have to say, Whaley's first draft (assuming 2013 was not his) is not looking that great.

 

I don't think I've ever even come close to saying that Whaley and Co. aren't on the hook for their personnel moves. Regarding that trade, it was Whaley's baby the entire time and not, like others have suggested, a plan hatched by Russ Brandon. Was there consensus among the principals in the war room? Of course. Very little gets done without consensus, ideally.

 

As for your points about relevancy, I think it's a completely different animal in hindsight. There are still many other chapters to be written. I can be patient when it comes to a rare talent like Watkins. But I understand the sentiment to the contrary.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[RayFinkle]

I can't go down the Sullivan/Carrucci path of looking at plays or individual players or coaches anymore. After 15 years, it's time to recognize that there is a greater pattern. Questions:

 

On what planet do you fail for as long as he has and keep your job?

Why is he the only Pres in the AFC East without an Ivy League graduate degree? How many other team Presidents in the NFL are running teams with their bachelors degrees?

How did a bachelors degree from St. John Fischer, some experience with the Marlins, and 9 years with the bills make him qualified to run an NFL franchise?

How many hours and dollars did he spend on the Toronto deals which could have been spent trying to make the team better?

Why have we hired more head coaches than any team (except Raiders) since 2000?

Why have we not been able to hire a head coach with a winning record?

Why is the team winning less than 40% of its games during his tenure?

How do prospects feel about coming to play for a guy with this track record, who has the same education level as they do?

 

I'm sure Ive missed some details, but the point is, the guy is grossly under qualified with a long track record of failure. I think he had RW brainwashed, and I hope Pegula asks the hard questions about Mr. Brandon. It's time to have this team run professionally.

 

Ivy League education to be the President of a NFL franchise? When did that become a requirement? A masters degree to boot?

 

Instead of posing the questions as if their some type of problem, you should feel empowered to use google to answer them yourself. You'll sound smarter next time...

 

It's going to be a looooooong offseason.

 

[mannc]

 

 

I don't think I've ever even come close to saying that Whaley and Co. aren't on the hook for their personnel moves.

 

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

 

Even though I'm not a fan of Coach Mauron, I'm slowly coming to believe that Whaley might be the bigger problem, despite his supposed reputation. I admit it's hard for a fan to evaluate a GM's performance, though. So much of what happens is behind closed doors and never sees the light of day, especially WRT 2013, when Buddy was still nominally in charge. It's impossible to know which decisions are truly the GM's and hard to know how much coaching is really to blame.

Edited December 24, 2014 by mannc

[TheFunPolice]

Well the owner is not Ralph and the Pegulas are very hands on and have said they will continue that with the Bills.

 

Therefore stuff will change. It's just a question of how much.

 

These owners won't be sitting home in Florida while Russ attends owner's meetings

Edited December 26, 2014 by TheFunPolice

[BADOLBILZ]

No doubt. The proof and credibility is always found in the W-L records. Agree one hundred percent. And I doubt RB gets a pass on any of that.

 

I just happen to find irony funny at times. Can you imagine if the internet were around when Accorsi started out?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

With the exception of your last sentence, all the rest is utter bull.

 

LMAO with the "apologist" remark. It's classic. And couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I'm not saying you are an apologist. I am saying I think you take your "inside" knowledge out of context.

 

During their SB runs I had connections to a few of the players. I heard some crazy things and it really helped me gain SOME perspective on the players and those they reported directly to......but little else.

 

I think your takes might exceed the boundaries of what your contacts know and falls more into their opinion becoming yours and you considering that as rather indisuptable evidence that you know the truth.

 

I've known people in the Bills offices and they have opinions and stories they've heard...and overheard....and I've always taken them with a grain. I trust the inside takes I get from my media contact MORE.

 

There is actually a lot the media knows that never goes to print and it's not that they don't want to compromise their contacts within the organization......it's just that it doesn't really matter. Even argument stories are really just noise.

 

Results give you the answers you seek.

 

My point in this is you get very standoff-ish at the notion that you don't know better than anyone else.

 

A prime example is that you think you know Ralph Wilson's thought process when the guy was well known for his mercurial nature.

 

An opinion that is backed by results.

[TheFunPolice]

Russ Brandon himself could post here and what would he say to convince some that everything is truly peachy at OBD?

 

Thus if Russ himself is giving info to certain posters you need to take that info with a grain of salt.

 

If I "theoretically" knew someone who was best friends with Hackett I could say that St. Doug is calling the shots on offense and Father Hackett wants to take more shots down field.

 

Would it matter? Would you even believe it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2014 by TheFunPolice

[K-9]

I'm not saying you are an apologist. I am saying I think you take your "inside" knowledge out of context.

 

During their SB runs I had connections to a few of the players. I heard some crazy things and it really helped me gain SOME perspective on the players and those they reported directly to......but little else.

 

I think your takes might exceed the boundaries of what your contacts know and falls more into their opinion becoming yours and you considering that as rather indisuptable evidence that you know the truth.

 

I've known people in the Bills offices and they have opinions and stories they've heard...and overheard....and I've always taken them with a grain. I trust the inside takes I get from my media contact MORE.

 

There is actually a lot the media knows that never goes to print and it's not that they don't want to compromise their contacts within the organization......it's just that it doesn't really matter. Even argument stories are really just noise.

 

Results give you the answers you seek.

 

My point in this is you get very standoff-ish at the notion that you don't know better than anyone else.

 

A prime example is that you think you know Ralph Wilson's thought process when the guy was well known for his mercurial nature.

 

An opinion that is backed by results.

 

Stick to your football analysis and leave the psychological profiling to professionals.

 

Here's my point: I don't need to be "right" about anything around here. Couldn't care less. What I have a low tolerance for and what may account for my coming across as standoffish in response, is the utter disregard some people have for the work of many people I've grown close to over the years. It's really no more complicated than that.

 

I first met Mr. Wilson when I was an eight year old gopher at the Rockpile some 47 years ago. In the 70s, he'd pop in when we were working on various cut-ups for the scouts and staff. Always generous, always gracious, always funny as hell. Mercurial, certainly at times. But he always made it a point to ask about our families; from moms and dads to wives and kids. Always. And I've always freely admitted my bias towards him around here as a result of that experience. I don't claim to know his thought process though, far from it. When I say he wasn't averse to a big trade, that's a guess based on a hunch, nothing more.

 

Lastly, regarding adopting others' opinions as my own, I certainly plead guilty to that when it comes to the opinions of the scouts and others involved in personnel over the years. And why wouldn't I? I've known some of them for decades; a few of which have gone on to great things with us and other teams in the league over the years. Indeed, I seek their opinions and trust them. Perhaps to a fault at times. I'll try not to get so defensive when I see others raking them over the coals for no reason. I'm working on it.

Edited December 27, 2014 by K-9

[Justafan9]

 

 

Ivy League education to be the President of a NFL franchise? When did that become a requirement? A masters degree to boot?

 

Instead of posing the questions as if their some type of problem, you should feel empowered to use google to answer them yourself. You'll sound smarter next time...

 

It's going to be a looooooong offseason.

 

Oh please enlighten me. Name the team president in the AFC east who doesn't have an Ivy League grad degree. Go ahead and use google. You will sound smarter.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Stick to your football analysis and leave the psychological profiling to professionals.

 

Here's my point: I don't need to be "right" about anything around here. Couldn't care less. What I have a low tolerance for and what may account for my coming across as standoffish in response, is the utter disregard some people have for the work of many people I've grown close to over the years. It's really no more complicated than that.

 

I first met Mr. Wilson when I was an eight year old gopher at the Rockpile some 47 years ago. In the 70s, he'd pop in when we were working on various cut-ups for the scouts and staff. Always generous, always gracious, always funny as hell. Mercurial, certainly at times. But he always made it a point to ask about our families; from moms and dads to wives and kids. Always. And I've always freely admitted my bias towards him around here as a result of that experience. I don't claim to know his thought process though, far from it. When I say he wasn't averse to a big trade, that's a guess based on a hunch, nothing more.

 

Lastly, regarding adopting others' opinions as my own, I certainly plead guilty to that when it comes to the opinions of the scouts and others involved in personnel over the years. And why wouldn't I? I've known some of them for decades; a few of which have gone on to great things with us and other teams in the league over the years. Indeed, I seek their opinions and trust them. Perhaps to a fault at times. I'll try not to get so defensive when I see others raking them over the coals for no reason. I'm working on it.

 

I understand your personal attachments.

 

Sports differ from other businesses in that they do not have to promise a good product to stay in business.

 

Teams are given a pass by customers with the inherent understanding that their loyalty is given in exchange for a committment to winning for that fanbase.

 

Like it or not.......THIS IS THE PROMISE...upon which the entire foundation of pro sports was built.

 

Until that dynamic changes.....people in sports management jobs are going to be held accountable by fans. Demanding better is the only real recourse fans have.

 

Ralph Wilson may have been a great guy in many aspects of his life....and now death....but he was not committed to winning.

 

He wanted to win on his terms. There is a difference. It involves sacrifices he wasn't willing to make.

 

As a result the people that worked for him have had to endure much personal criticism. That is Ralph's fault....not that of the fanbase. But it's probably hard to see it that way when Ralph is providing you with opportunity and issuing your checks and being nice to you.

 

It's kind of a robbing Peter to pay Paul situation. The robbing part is still bad.

[Justafan9]

Here I did it for you.

 

Dolphins - no president, chairman/managing general partner = Steven Ross. J.D., LLM (Google it) from NYU (ivy).

Pats - president - Jonathan Kraft- MBA Harvard.

Jets - President - Neil Glat - JD Harvard.

 

Raves - president - Dick Cass - Yale Law

Bengals - President - Michael Brown - Harvard Law

Browns - President - Alec Scheiner - Georgetown Law

Steelers - president - Art Rooney II - Duquesne Law

 

Texans - president -Jamey rooted - MBA Indiana U

Colts - no president. Irsay owns, and is CEO.

Jags - mark lamping. No grad degree. You be the judge as to whether that's a good thing for the jags.

Titans - president - Thomas smith - unknown to me

 

Broncos -president - joe Ellis - Northwestern school of management.

KC - pres - mark Donovan - Brown (Ivy).

Chargers - President - Dean Spanos. No grad or Ivy league degree ( his dad owns the team).

Oak - no pres.

 

That's the AFC. You be the judge.

[SJDK]

I can't go down the Sullivan/Carrucci path of looking at plays or individual players or coaches anymore. After 15 years, it's time to recognize that there is a greater pattern. Questions:

 

On what planet do you fail for as long as he has and keep your job?

Why is he the only Pres in the AFC East without an Ivy League graduate degree? How many other team Presidents in the NFL are running teams with their bachelors degrees?

How did a bachelors degree from St. John Fischer, some experience with the Marlins, and 9 years with the bills make him qualified to run an NFL franchise?

How many hours and dollars did he spend on the Toronto deals which could have been spent trying to make the team better?

Why have we hired more head coaches than any team (except Raiders) since 2000?

Why have we not been able to hire a head coach with a winning record?

Why is the team winning less than 40% of its games during his tenure?

How do prospects feel about coming to play for a guy with this track record, who has the same education level as they do?

 

I'm sure Ive missed some details, but the point is, the guy is grossly under qualified with a long track record of failure. I think he had RW brainwashed, and I hope Pegula asks the hard questions about Mr. Brandon. It's time to have this team run professionally.

I'd bet that fewer owners than you think have graduate degrees. A degree means jack squat when put up against all his years of experience. I don't think Brandon has done an exceptional job, but I also don't think he is what is holding us back. We all know Ralph was cheap and he was too involved in too many of the decisions that hurt us. I think he was a great man but his later days offered very little in the way of bucking his reputation as a tight wad and his interfering with progress. I know alot of people with graduate degrees who are not doing so well considering their education. It's a dumb argument to make basically because experience is education. You can't learn what those guys need to know in a classroom setting. You have to know the ins and ou's of specific organizations and cater your approach accordingly. He spent years with Ralph as a mentor and I'm sure learned a lot more valuable information about running a team/business than someone could with a graduate degree from Harvard. That said I don't think he's great or necessary but I don't think you put Ryan Fitzpatrick through another couple years of school and give him the job.

Edited December 28, 2014 by SJDK

[Justafan9]

Clearly, he's done a magnificent job.

Enjoy the game tomorrow.

[SJDK]

I will do just that. I will do so knowing that Russ isn't an OC, an offensive guard, an offensive line coach or a QB. I think Whaley and Marrone will address all of those needs shortly as it is Whaley and Marrone's job to do that.

[timtebow15]

I hate starting over as much as anyone but here are the facts (as I see them of course):

 

Russ has to go for several reasons...he is a marketer than talked himself into a football role and needs to be responsible to a)selecting the coaching staff that has not delivered on their "promise" (as evidenced by their mortgaging the near-future to make the playoffs) and allowing a rift to exist between Whaley and Marrone, in part bc he clearly is a Whaley guy. This rift creates a dysfunctional atmosphere that is not going away.

 

Whaley has to go because, while he has hit on a few, he has whiffed on the most important decisions. Went all in on EJ, brought in Williams to be the answer at guard when even casual fans knew he was awful, brought in the other Williams at WR who brought about some incredibly weird handling this year, selected Kujo who most GMs did not think could play and were proven correct while wetried to outsmart everyone and gave up too much (whether he turns out to be a good player or not) to draft a position of incredible strength in this year's draft (think of what we would have if he traded down to take one of many of the other fine receivers that went later because there were so many great prospects - you have consider opportunities lost as well).

 

Marrone has to go - think about it...he has been amazingly blessed by the DC he's had but the side of football he was most responsible for is a train wreck. We need a coach inventing the next brand of football played but Marrone's strategy is already behind the times - an offense that relies to heavily on defense when the rules are set up to score points, punts when behind in the 4th quarter, mismanages the offensive line, confuses players regarding their roles, expects the D to play the same on the road as at home which just does not happen (must be more aggressive on the road to score), has a poor relationship with the GM - he's a dysfunctional head coach who might make the playoffs someday on the strength of our D but will never advance far.

 

Hackett has to go because of his poor system. He is essentially trying to move the ball downfield with a 4 yard passing attack where you have to go 3-3 to move the chains far too often. Last time I checked if you are throwing the ball 10-20 yards downfield you only have to complete 1 of 3 passes. Additionally, then your screens and draws might work. When you have no running game and run play-action you give away the fact that you are never going to outplay a capable defense.

 

The problem is we need extraordinary individuals running the show. Each of these guys can run the show, however, mediocrity will always be the result and it starts at the top. Quite awhile ago they said they had a plan, talked about metrics and such. It is clear after two years they have no plan. It is haphazard and dysfunctional and, I am sorry to say, the results will never be any different with these people running the organization. There will always be an excuse. No QB, no OL, too few draft picks bc they were wasted or traded away, misses on free agents, infighting, not enough depth, etc.

[Justafan9]

I will do just that. I will do so knowing that Russ isn't an OC, an offensive guard, an offensive line coach or a QB. I think Whaley and Marrone will address all of those needs shortly as it is Whaley and Marrone's job to do that.

They're doing a magnificent job. As their predecessors did.

[Justafan9]

I hate starting over as much as anyone but here are the facts (as I see them of course):

 

Russ has to go for several reasons...he is a marketer than talked himself into a football role and needs to be responsible to a)selecting the coaching staff that has not delivered on their "promise" (as evidenced by their mortgaging the near-future to make the playoffs) and allowing a rift to exist between Whaley and Marrone, in part bc he clearly is a Whaley guy. This rift creates a dysfunctional atmosphere that is not going away.

 

Whaley has to go because, while he has hit on a few, he has whiffed on the most important decisions. Went all in on EJ, brought in Williams to be the answer at guard when even casual fans knew he was awful, brought in the other Williams at WR who brought about some incredibly weird handling this year, selected Kujo who most GMs did not think could play and were proven correct while wetried to outsmart everyone and gave up too much (whether he turns out to be a good player or not) to draft a position of incredible strength in this year's draft (think of what we would have if he traded down to take one of many of the other fine receivers that went later because there were so many great prospects - you have consider opportunities lost as well).

 

Marrone has to go - think about it...he has been amazingly blessed by the DC he's had but the side of football he was most responsible for is a train wreck. We need a coach inventing the next brand of football played but Marrone's strategy is already behind the times - an offense that relies to heavily on defense when the rules are set up to score points, punts when behind in the 4th quarter, mismanages the offensive line, confuses players regarding their roles, expects the D to play the same on the road as at home which just does not happen (must be more aggressive on the road to score), has a poor relationship with the GM - he's a dysfunctional head coach who might make the playoffs someday on the strength of our D but will never advance far.

 

Hackett has to go because of his poor system. He is essentially trying to move the ball downfield with a 4 yard passing attack where you have to go 3-3 to move the chains far too often. Last time I checked if you are throwing the ball 10-20 yards downfield you only have to complete 1 of 3 passes. Additionally, then your screens and draws might work. When you have no running game and run play-action you give away the fact that you are never going to outplay a capable defense.

 

The problem is we need extraordinary individuals running the show. Each of these guys can run the show, however, mediocrity will always be the result and it starts at the top. Quite awhile ago they said they had a plan, talked about metrics and such. It is clear after two years they have no plan. It is haphazard and dysfunctional and, I am sorry to say, the results will never be any different with these people running the organization. There will always be an excuse. No QB, no OL, too few draft picks bc they were wasted or traded away, misses on free agents, infighting, not enough depth, etc.

Extraordinary would be nice, but I would settle for ordinary individuals at the top, particularly at the CEO/President level. That was the point of my op. I'd just like to start with what most other NFL teams already have.

There are competent HCs about to hit the market, but they are not coming to Buffalo, due at least in part to an incredibly under qualified Russ Brandon.

Cancer. Cancer. Cancer.

[timtebow15]

 

Extraordinary would be nice, but I would settle for ordinary individuals at the top, particularly at the CEO/President level. That was the point of my op. I'd just like to start with what most other NFL teams already have.

There are competent HCs about to hit the market, but they are not coming to Buffalo, due at least in part to an incredibly under qualified Russ Brandon.

Cancer. Cancer. Cancer.

 

I agree 100%! Like Whaley he brings checkers to a chess match. They are clearly not going to outsmart anyone but themselves.

[8-8 Forever?]

The Bills are a home boy franchise. No one without some kind of tie to the area is coming there. With rare exceptions, unless you are from there or have some kind of tie to the general area, no one makes a free will choice in the face of equivalent opportunities elsewhere to actually move their families to WNY. Not happening any more than any other rust belt 3rd tier US city. Jim Kelly actually physically cried when the Bills drafted him. Remember that?? The area has a big time image problem. that is why home boys like Russ Brandon get those jobs. No one else wants them if comparable opportunities exist elsewhere . Just the way it was when the death watch with RWS was on. Maybe new Pegula $$$ can open the place up to guys not born in WNY, we shall see.

[Tintonfallsbillsfan]

Russ should not be part of the Football Operations. The president is the guy who sits down with Whaley and Marrone and say play E.j. I would like to take a look. Or

Doug it's your call if you want to give up next years one but here is why I think it's a bad idea.

There is a void that needs to be filled

[thebandit27]

I will do just that. I will do so knowing that Russ isn't an OC, an offensive guard, an offensive line coach or a QB. I think Whaley and Marrone will address all of those needs shortly as it is Whaley and Marrone's job to do that.

 

Indeed.

 

Russ' biggest flaw was who he chose/allowed to run the football side of things (Modrak, Guy, Nix)--although I think Whaley will be a good GM.

 

I'd hate to lose Whaley, but there are a lot of good football minds out there. I still think somehow Marc Ross will end up a GM in this league, and it would only make sense for it to be here, especially if Polian is the one making that call.

[vorpma]

I hate starting over as much as anyone but here are the facts (as I see them of course):

 

Russ has to go for several reasons...he is a marketer than talked himself into a football role and needs to be responsible to a)selecting the coaching staff that has not delivered on their "promise" (as evidenced by their mortgaging the near-future to make the playoffs) and allowing a rift to exist between Whaley and Marrone, in part bc he clearly is a Whaley guy. This rift creates a dysfunctional atmosphere that is not going away.

 

Whaley has to go because, while he has hit on a few, he has whiffed on the most important decisions. Went all in on EJ, brought in Williams to be the answer at guard when even casual fans knew he was awful, brought in the other Williams at WR who brought about some incredibly weird handling this year, selected Kujo who most GMs did not think could play and were proven correct while wetried to outsmart everyone and gave up too much (whether he turns out to be a good player or not) to draft a position of incredible strength in this year's draft (think of what we would have if he traded down to take one of many of the other fine receivers that went later because there were so many great prospects - you have consider opportunities lost as well).

 

Marrone has to go - think about it...he has been amazingly blessed by the DC he's had but the side of football he was most responsible for is a train wreck. We need a coach inventing the next brand of football played but Marrone's strategy is already behind the times - an offense that relies to heavily on defense when the rules are set up to score points, punts when behind in the 4th quarter, mismanages the offensive line, confuses players regarding their roles, expects the D to play the same on the road as at home which just does not happen (must be more aggressive on the road to score), has a poor relationship with the GM - he's a dysfunctional head coach who might make the playoffs someday on the strength of our D but will never advance far.

 

Hackett has to go because of his poor system. He is essentially trying to move the ball downfield with a 4 yard passing attack where you have to go 3-3 to move the chains far too often. Last time I checked if you are throwing the ball 10-20 yards downfield you only have to complete 1 of 3 passes. Additionally, then your screens and draws might work. When you have no running game and run play-action you give away the fact that you are never going to outplay a capable defense.

 

The problem is we need extraordinary individuals running the show. Each of these guys can run the show, however, mediocrity will always be the result and it starts at the top. Quite awhile ago they said they had a plan, talked about metrics and such. It is clear after two years they have no plan. It is haphazard and dysfunctional and, I am sorry to say, the results will never be any different with these people running the organization. There will always be an excuse. No QB, no OL, too few draft picks bc they were wasted or traded away, misses on free agents, infighting, not enough depth, etc.

:thumbsup: Great post!!

 

The Bills are a home boy franchise. No one without some kind of tie to the area is coming there. With rare exceptions, unless you are from there or have some kind of tie to the general area, no one makes a free will choice in the face of equivalent opportunities elsewhere to actually move their families to WNY. Not happening any more than any other rust belt 3rd tier US city. Jim Kelly actually physically cried when the Bills drafted him. Remember that?? The area has a big time image problem. that is why home boys like Russ Brandon get those jobs. No one else wants them if comparable opportunities exist elsewhere . Just the way it was when the death watch with RWS was on. Maybe new Pegula $$$ can open the place up to guys not born in WNY, we shall see.

Lots of truth here, however, during the Levy era many FA's wanted Buffalo, winning franchise that paid its players and wanted Camp Marv in August. Money is what will get a quality GM here, then build a franchise known as a winner and first rate. Green Bay!

[Pass the Pipe]

As I have emphatically stated before, this moron, tumor, jack*ss, *ss kisser, yes man etc, has to go. What business person would negotiate a contract where the contractee, Marrone in this case, is compensated to break a contract? In any basic contract negotiation providing somebody with options or flexibility typically costs something to the contractee, see stock options, call features on bonds, real estate transactions, obviously a concept not understand by our "business man." Marrone exercises an option to terminate his employment with the Bills and still gets compensated, unheard of; completely played by the agent! The Bills will continue to be laughingstock as long as people like Brandon are still around!

 

By the way, buyer beware on Mariota, he is not NFL ready; runs too much and his coach makes all the calls and the guy hasn't fit any throws into tight spaces and has missed many wide open targets!

[Best Player Available]

Gulf Oysters barbecued are great!

[prissythecat]

As I have emphatically stated before, this moron, tumor, jack*ss, *ss kisser, yes man etc, has to go. What business person would negotiate a contract where the contractee, Marrone in this case, is compensated to break a contract? In any basic contract negotiation providing somebody with options or flexibility typically costs something to the contractee, see stock options, call features on bonds, real estate transactions, obviously a concept not understand by our "business man." Marrone exercises an option to terminate his employment with the Bills and still gets compensated, unheard of; completely played by the agent! The Bills will continue to be laughingstock as long as people like Brandon are still around!

 

By the way, buyer beware on Mariota, he is not NFL ready; runs too much and his coach makes all the calls and the guy hasn't fit any throws into tight spaces and has missed many wide open targets!

 

 

Have you been smoking too much from the pipe? Since you claim to know so much about contract negotiations , what special clauses typically go in when there is possibility of an ownership change ? Golden parachutes come to mind?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I was wondering how long it would take someone to start a thread on this, you are the winner!!

 

Russ B was representing Ralph Wilson at the time the contract was signed. What possible downside to RW would there be to put this clause into the contract as it wasn't going to be his money paying for it? If it helped the Bills close the deal why not? Are you going to claim the team would have sold for a higher price without this clause?? I don't know about you, but $4 mil doesn't sound like much of a big deal when spending $1.4 bil If anything having a coach on board who you assumed was going to be an improvement over prior choices would help drive the selling price up.

 

Maybe at the time Russ B did have some concerns that this could come back to bite him, but likely in 2012 when this contract was signed if you asked RB if he thought he'd still be with the Bills after the team was sold, he likely would have said no. He also was representing RW's interests first and foremost. He may have asked RW about this at the time would RW agree to it, or maybe RW by that point wasn't getting into any details anymore and was left completely up to Russ to work out. Either way this clause wouldn't hurt RW since he wouldn't be paying for it and if it would help close the deal, and potentially m=inccreasing the value of the team, why not Without knowing the specific details of Russ's leadership agreement, but effectively he had POA responsibility for RW for the Bill's, typically as such he had a legal responsibility to represent the best interests of RW and if agreeing to this clause increased the sale rice, then he did the right thing.

 

In simple terms in 2012 if RW was still running things and had agreed to this would you be OK with it? If so, then you need to still be OK with it as Russ B was representing RW's interests, and definitely not the fans of the team.

 

As was stated they are called golden parachutes and are completely common at this level. In fact wouldn't surprise me if both Russ B and Doug W don't also have some type of clause in their contracts too.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Pass the Pipe]

I disagree with the parachute reference as they are for job displacement resulting from a new management team or compensation for the owners of the business being sold. What I don't like is Marrone's ability to double dip, a new salary from his new team and the Bills paying for absolutely nothing, actually causing disruption to the organization, which leads me to my bad job by Brandon claim. I could see some pro-rated number or a payout if he is fired by the new owner or doesn't land a new job post exercising the option. Marrone is being compensated for leaving a $4 mil. job based on his own decision, which is poor business to me. How do the Bills benefit from this, where is the value of this option to the Bills organization?

 

I can see a proven commodity ask for this clause, but not a guy like Marrone doing marginal work at Syracuse, not exactly a household name in college football.

[jr1]

Russ got rolled by Maybin and Doug. He's a mark

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

He agreed to sign the contract at the time, so that's how it helped the Bills

 

So you don't consider a new owner taking over new management??

[The Frankish Reich]

He agreed to sign the contract at the time, so that's how it helped the Bills

 

So you don't consider a new owner taking over new management??

It did strike me as a weird clause. I don't pretend to know NFL contracts, but I do know contracts in general, and it was weird because there doesn't seem to be any real impact on the coaching staff of a change of ownership. It's not like Ralph Wilson and Marrone had some long history such that Marrone only agreed to coach the Bills based on that personal connection. This would be the kind of thing you'd expect with, say, John Elway and Pat Bowlen (president of football operations and owner, where there was a long personal relationship between the two men), or even John Elway and John Fox, but not between owner and coach. Was it put in there with the expectation that a change of ownership would mean a relocation of the franchise, and Marrone wasn't ready to move to Toronto or LA? I'd have to say that's the only explanation I can think of.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

at the time no one even knew where the team would be located. Or maybe the owner was Donald Trump and you don't want to work for him

[Noodlearm]

Having to pay him a full years salary if he executed the opt out almost made him have to leave. He will be getting at least double time for next year! Way to go Brandon. These contracts should make it harder to leave, not impossible to stay.

[Pass the Pipe]

Having to pay him a full years salary if he executed the opt out almost made him have to leave. He will be getting at least double time for next year! Way to go Brandon. These contracts should make it harder to leave, not impossible to stay.

 

Exactly my point!

[peteski]

I read somewhere (no link sorry) that he would not of signed the contract unless he had the opt out clause due to new ownership.

It was the only way the deal was going to be done.