The Jokeman Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Offensive line should be built through the draft, not free agency. We used three picks on offensive lineman last year and only one starting. I could see us taking an OG with our top pick but I'd also let go of Pears after this season and find a veteran backup/spot starter just incase said draft pick faulters or Trent Richardson doesn't develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) In a QB starved league, we have a shot at none of the guys being mentioned in this thread as possibilities. Cutler is literally the only one and that is because he is terrible at his job, he poses as a guy with talent when all he can do is toss it to the wrong team. Bradford, maybe, St. Louis still may want to see how he comes back and pay him for 1 more season... Kap sucks too btw. A healthy Bradford is ideally the best QB that might be available but doubt the Rams give up on him since no one has stepped up and replaced him yet. To me the ideal guy for the Bills to bring in is Christian Ponder as he fits the mold of former 1st Round bust who needs a second chance and toss in he might be a good mentorish type guy with his connection to EJ at FSU. That said that might move could cause Orton to consider walking away which to me a bad scenario so I say draft a guy like Keeton late and/or pursue a veteran QB like TJ Yates in UFA. As ( I doubt he'd be a guy scene as a threat to start but is a sneaky singing as A)Yates at the very least is an okay #2 QB but (B)he does have starting experience and who knows maybe he just needs another chance as for whatever reason the Texans elected not to given him another chance after his rookie season where he was hit/miss but then again no QBs have been great in Houston the last few years. Edited December 19, 2014 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 "I have confidence this front office will address the OL issue. They have for the past two years. Some moves have turned out to be more successful than others, of course, But nobody can credibly claim the Bills have ignored the OL." That's like saying at least the murderer didn't kill the WHOLE family. Give Whaley credit for other moves, but he earns an F for the offensive line, at least for guard, where it counted the most after last year's debacle. To fill a glaring hole he signs a known mediocrity (for a big salary) and drafts an afterthought in the fifth, who played like a bust. The predictable result: another year with the guard position pulling the team down. And you have confidence he will do better this year because he didn't utterly ignore the OL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 A healthy Bradford is ideally the best QB that might be available but doubt the Rams give up on him since no one has stepped up and replaced him yet. To me the ideal guy for the Bills to bring in is Christian Ponder as he fits the mold of former 1st Round bust who needs a second chance and toss in he might be a good mentorish type guy with his connection to EJ at FSU. That said that might move could cause Orton to consider walking away which to me a bad scenario so I say draft a guy like Keeton late and/or pursue a veteran QB like TJ Yates in UFA. As ( I doubt he'd be a guy scene as a threat to start but is a sneaky singing as A)Yates at the very least is an okay #2 QB but (B)he does have starting experience and who knows maybe he just needs another chance as for whatever reason the Texans elected not to given him another chance after his rookie season where he was hit/miss but then again no QBs have been great in Houston the last few years. Christain Ponder? Oh god no...please no. You want a terrible first round pick to "mentor" another bad first round pick? Ponder needs a mentor himself. They will just reminisce about FSU and not make each other better at all. Drafting a QB is not going to get us to the playoffs in the first year based on the odds - rookie QBs just arent good enough that early unless they are special, most are not. TJ Yates is hardly a veteran, no chance we get him as an upgrade to Orton and I dont think hes a better #2 than EJ would be or Orton if he stays as a back-up. Cutler is certainly the most talented QB that will likely be available and he is better than Orton. The Bills will likely call everyone offering trades but if it comes down to cutler or anyone else we have to take Cutler. He will be an upgrade. Orton has a $5 mill player option if I remember correctly. Even if we bring in Cutler as the likely starter, Orton isnt going to get $5 mill anywhere else and I doubt someone will bring him in as a starter based on this year. Because of that I think Orton stays no matter what. We could have Cutler as a the likely starter with Orton as a back-up, that seems like the best case scenario to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) The Midget idea was a classic & if you think about it; it probably would work. I know, it probably would! Lol! The visual is killing me! Edited December 19, 2014 by Tipster19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Christain Ponder? Oh god no...please no. You want a terrible first round pick to "mentor" another bad first round pick? Ponder needs a mentor himself. They will just reminisce about FSU and not make each other better at all. Drafting a QB is not going to get us to the playoffs in the first year based on the odds - rookie QBs just arent good enough that early unless they are special, most are not. TJ Yates is hardly a veteran, no chance we get him as an upgrade to Orton and I dont think hes a better #2 than EJ would be or Orton if he stays as a back-up. Cutler is certainly the most talented QB that will likely be available and he is better than Orton. The Bills will likely call everyone offering trades but if it comes down to cutler or anyone else we have to take Cutler. He will be an upgrade. Orton has a $5 mill player option if I remember correctly. Even if we bring in Cutler as the likely starter, Orton isnt going to get $5 mill anywhere else and I doubt someone will bring him in as a starter based on this year. Because of that I think Orton stays no matter what. We could have Cutler as a the likely starter with Orton as a back-up, that seems like the best case scenario to me. I can't see Orton staying here if Cutler is brought in. Bad blood and let's remember Orton is the one holding the option. So to me if Orton doesn't stay than Ponder is the guy I'd go after as who knows he might have a "Sanchez" type revival as think if him as low risk/high reward. Yet ideally I'd want Orton to stay, keep EJ and throw TJ Yates into the mix. As to me this offseason the biggest focus should be on keeping this D in tact, adding a TE to either replace Chandler and/or a guy who can replace Lee Smith and produce more in the passing game and shore up one of the OG positions. As to me you build as much as you can on offense and then your QB should be able to produce. If not then you look at the 2016 draft or possible UFA options like Eli, Cam, Rivers, Bradford, Roethlisburger, RGIII, Tannehill. I realize not all of them will be available but one or two might and to me better than the options we have this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Unless they can find a way to land RG3 or Eli I am not interested in any FA QB this year CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jletha Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 I can't see Orton staying here if Cutler is brought in. Bad blood and let's remember Orton is the one holding the option. So to me if Orton doesn't stay than Ponder is the guy I'd go after as who knows he might have a "Sanchez" type revival as think if him as low risk/high reward. Yet ideally I'd want Orton to stay, keep EJ and throw TJ Yates into the mix. As to me this offseason the biggest focus should be on keeping this D in tact, adding a TE to either replace Chandler and/or a guy who can replace Lee Smith and produce more in the passing game and shore up one of the OG positions. As to me you build as much as you can on offense and then your QB should be able to produce. If not then you look at the 2016 draft or possible UFA options like Eli, Cam, Rivers, Bradford, Roethlisburger, RGIII, Tannehill. I realize not all of them will be available but one or two might and to me better than the options we have this offseason. I agree that we need to keep the D together at all costs but we really only have next year with this defense in its current state so waiting until 2016 to get a QB will be wasting the defense. The move for QB needs to be made this year and Ponder or Yates is not going to get it done. Ponder having a Sanchez-esque revival means he would have had to show the talent at some point in his career which he never has. It wouldn't be a revival it would be an aberration. I dont see how TJ Yates provides any sort of upgrade at all, he has never done anything significant in the league. He will likely be cut before the season if brought into camp. We need a guy that is clearly more talented than Orton and EJ so its pretty much Cutler or Bradford. Bad blood can be forgotten for money and Orton is never going to get more than $5 mill anywhere else. Unless he is passionate he doesnt want to be on the same team as Cutler and is willing to take a massive pay cut because of it he will take the option and try to beat out Cutler in camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Phillip Rivers - 2016 - 4 years/$100 million After missing out on the playoffs 5 of their last six seasons, a dejected Phillip Rivers says goodbye to the Bolts and signs with the up-and-coming team the Buffalo Bills. Ahhhh I can see it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 "I have confidence this front office will address the OL issue. They have for the past two years. Some moves have turned out to be more successful than others, of course, But nobody can credibly claim the Bills have ignored the OL." That's like saying at least the murderer didn't kill the WHOLE family. Give Whaley credit for other moves, but he earns an F for the offensive line, at least for guard, where it counted the most after last year's debacle. To fill a glaring hole he signs a known mediocrity (for a big salary) and drafts an afterthought in the fifth, who played like a bust. The predictable result: another year with the guard position pulling the team down. And you have confidence he will do better this year because he didn't utterly ignore the OL? Your reasoning is preposterous and suggests you think fixing a football team is something that is very easy to do. Whaley, on the whole, has made some excellent personnel moves. Did he get the entire team fixed? Every position? Well clearly the answer is no. But based on what he has accomplished in a fairly short period of time, I have confidence the OL won't be left unaddressed. Will he make the right moves and decisions? We won't know until it gets done, of course. But I wouldn't bet against it, that's for sure. Unless I am mistaken here, the RT position was the most glaring need at OL, according to most. Fortunately, that seems to have been addressed. It wasn't with the draft pick we all assumed would be the starter, but give Whaley credit for not stopping there. I'll give you Chris Williams was a questionable call, but I believe he was chosen to be a veteran stop-gap. A guy to get us through this season, but with a pretty big upside if he didn't crap out (he is after all a former 1st round pick, and started all 16 games last year). His salary is a non-issue (at leas to us fans) as the Bills weren't up against cap issues. His signing prevented nothing. But bottom line, when it comes to the G position, Whaley had a bad year. The Bills only have two true guards on the roster (well more if you count the centers). Do you have any question Whaley will be addressing that position in the offseason? Do you think he will just sit back, another season, and figure, we're all set at guard? Or do you think, with fewer holes to fill this year, guard moves up in the priority list? Based on the mistakes last year, do you think he is (or our scouts are) incapable of acquiring talented guards? Or do you think they simply had a combination of some bad judgment and bad luck last year, that resulted in this mess? Whaley strikes me as a guy who really goes after his priorities and tries hard not repeat mistakes. Guard HAS to be a priority this year. So I will be shocked if they don't attack that position aggressively. Some might say QB is a bigger priority, but it is a position that is a bit harder to attack in the same way as G. If the Bills don't sign a bunch of bodies (draft, FA, trade, whatever) I will have agree that Whaley didn't get it done. I'm not a big believer in "if they don't sign player X then they will be doomed" when it comes to guards (or any position to be honest). Nor do I think if not drafting a first rounder means you are ignoring the position. But I expect to see quite a bit of action at that position in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Which QB will draw more interest: Cutler or RGIII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Your reasoning is preposterous and suggests you think fixing a football team is something that is very easy to do. Whaley, on the whole, has made some excellent personnel moves. Did he get the entire team fixed? Every position? Well clearly the answer is no. But based on what he has accomplished in a fairly short period of time, I have confidence the OL won't be left unaddressed. Will he make the right moves and decisions? We won't know until it gets done, of course. But I wouldn't bet against it, that's for sure. Unless I am mistaken here, the RT position was the most glaring need at OL, according to most. Fortunately, that seems to have been addressed. It wasn't with the draft pick we all assumed would be the starter, but give Whaley credit for not stopping there. I'll give you Chris Williams was a questionable call, but I believe he was chosen to be a veteran stop-gap. A guy to get us through this season, but with a pretty big upside if he didn't crap out (he is after all a former 1st round pick, and started all 16 games last year). His salary is a non-issue (at leas to us fans) as the Bills weren't up against cap issues. His signing prevented nothing. But bottom line, when it comes to the G position, Whaley had a bad year. The Bills only have two true guards on the roster (well more if you count the centers). Do you have any question Whaley will be addressing that position in the offseason? Do you think he will just sit back, another season, and figure, we're all set at guard? Or do you think, with fewer holes to fill this year, guard moves up in the priority list? Based on the mistakes last year, do you think he is (or our scouts are) incapable of acquiring talented guards? Or do you think they simply had a combination of some bad judgment and bad luck last year, that resulted in this mess? Whaley strikes me as a guy who really goes after his priorities and tries hard not repeat mistakes. Guard HAS to be a priority this year. So I will be shocked if they don't attack that position aggressively. Some might say QB is a bigger priority, but it is a position that is a bit harder to attack in the same way as G. If the Bills don't sign a bunch of bodies (draft, FA, trade, whatever) I will have agree that Whaley didn't get it done. I'm not a big believer in "if they don't sign player X then they will be doomed" when it comes to guards (or any position to be honest). Nor do I think if not drafting a first rounder means you are ignoring the position. But I expect to see quite a bit of action at that position in the offseason. Straw man arguments. While you're at it, why not write, "Is he God? Is he immortal? Does he ride in chariots of fire?" "RT was the most glaring need, according to most"? Most what? Most Jaguars fans? Doug Legursky and Colin Brown were the two worst guards in the LEAGUE last year. Their inept play was one of the biggest stories of last year's season. What does Whaley do? He signs a bust and a fifth round afterthought to fill the hole. But you think it's "preposterous" for me to not trust him this time around. You do know what the word means, right? Here's what I think: I think neither Whaley and Marrone value the guard position highly. They seem to think any 300 pound warm body can handle the Suhs, Atkins and Watts of the league. They made the mistake twice now, even in the face of evidence that it was badly stalling their offense. What makes you think they won't do it a third time, especially since they have to spend money elsewhere. Why not go cheap again, slide Kujo over maybe, give Richardson another chance, save some bucks. That's not preposterous; that's their track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 No kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Ponder, Yates I mean yikes!!. How bout Matt Moore I'd definitely take him over any of those rejects. I'd even take Matt Moore over Orton. MM is a big strong QB standing at 6-3 230lbs has a nice throwing arm and most of all is a tough minded sob that is not afraid to sling it. MM also has good leadership skills as teammates usually gravitate to him. In 2011, Moore took over a Dolphins team that was 0-7 & won 6 out of 9 to finish the season 6-3 . After that season was over Miami drafted Ryan Tannehill with there new head coach & he was never seen again in the starting lineup. I live in Miami and lots of there fans didn't want to see Tannehill drafted. Even to this day many of there fans call the radio shows and demand Moore gets a chance to lead there team. Now that Moore is gonna be a free agent at 30yrs old he will be looking for a team to go & start. If the Bills can't work out a trade for a better QB or if they trade for someone that's injury prone like Bradford or RG3. I would love to see Matt Moore brought in to bk them up. This move will give us that insurance we need. Even if we can't get another QB let's give this guy a chance. Remember bk in 98 the Bills brought in 2 QB´s Flutie & Johnson. I think it's time we try again 2 new QBs. Let's go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 (edited) As far as the QB names being thrown around I've got a few more. First off, if iirc, TJ Yates was the QB for the Texans when they won a playoff game. So he has done something somewhat significant in the league jletha. What happened to Matt Casell? I believe he was injured last year. He's better IMHO THAN some of the other names I've seen like TJ or Matt Moore or Sanchez. Another FA I like is Kellen Moore out of Boiuse St. Rode the pine in Detroit for 4 years or so. Has played well in PS I've seen. Won a ton of games and threw a ton of TD passes as a 4 year starter in a passing offense. Take a flyer on him and see at he can do. Matt Hasselbeck - Yeah I know he's old. 39. Bring him in for a workout and if he's still got it he'd be at great year or two QB to tide us over. He went to SB with Seattle. A very smart QB. I'm not convinced we do anything of significance at QB this off season. Would make more sense to do something significant in regards to offensive line. Should be an interesting off season come February. Edited December 20, 2014 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 As far as the QB names being thrown around I've got a few more. First off, if iirc, TJ Yates was the QB for the Texans when they won a playoff game. So he has done something somewhat significant in the league jletha. What happened to Matt Casell? I believe he was injured last year. He's better IMHO THAN some of the other names I've seen like TJ or Matt Moore or Sanchez. Another FA I like is Kellen Moore out of Boiuse St. Rode the pine in Detroit for 4 years or so. Has played well in PS I've seen. Won a ton of games and threw a ton of TD passes as a 4 year starter in a passing offense. Take a flyer on him and see at he can do. Matt Hasselbeck - Yeah I know he's old. 39. Bring him in for a workout and if he's still got it he'd be at great year or two QB to tide us over. He went to SB with Seattle. A very smart QB. I'm not convinced we do anything of significance at QB this off season. Would make more sense to do something significant in regards to offensive line. Should be an interesting off season come February. Would be in favor of giving Kellen Moore a shot Phillip Rivers - 2016 - 4 years/$100 million After missing out on the playoffs 5 of their last six seasons, a dejected Phillip Rivers says goodbye to the Bolts and signs with the up-and-coming team the Buffalo Bills. Ahhhh I can see it now! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Straw man arguments. While you're at it, why not write, "Is he God? Is he immortal? Does he ride in chariots of fire?" "RT was the most glaring need, according to most"? Most what? Most Jaguars fans? Doug Legursky and Colin Brown were the two worst guards in the LEAGUE last year. Their inept play was one of the biggest stories of last year's season. What does Whaley do? He signs a bust and a fifth round afterthought to fill the hole. But you think it's "preposterous" for me to not trust him this time around. You do know what the word means, right? Here's what I think: I think neither Whaley and Marrone value the guard position highly. They seem to think any 300 pound warm body can handle the Suhs, Atkins and Watts of the league. They made the mistake twice now, even in the face of evidence that it was badly stalling their offense. What makes you think they won't do it a third time, especially since they have to spend money elsewhere. Why not go cheap again, slide Kujo over maybe, give Richardson another chance, save some bucks. That's not preposterous; that's their track record. I'm not sure you understand the meaning of "straw man" arguments. I will say you use entirely too much hyperbole in your posts for me to put much value in your opinions. Examples:" That's like saying at least the murderer didn't kill the WHOLE family. ""Is he God? Is he immortal? Does he ride in chariots of fire?" Please, understand we are talking about men setting priorities and making judgments. I understand you aren't happy with the way the FO prioritized the guard position these past two offseasons, nor did you like the choices they made for that position. But you don't seem to understand these choices were made in context, with other issues on the table. I happen to agree with your conclusion they didn't seem to value the G position enough in the past. But let's not pretend most organizations consider the Tackle positions a bit more important (judging by both salary and draft position). And I did have a bit more faith than you that Williams might work out (at least for a season). Obviously that didn't work out. What did work out is the FO managed to shore up the RT position as well as the LB and DB depth (which turned out to be very important this year). What I do not agree with is, because the FO didn't get it right the past two years, one must conclude they CAN"T address that position with any competence. That's just sloppy logic. My point is, I think we will see this year--we'd better. Marrone is an OL guy. Perhaps he sold the FO on the idea he could hide the G weaknesses with strong T play. (I don't know this, I'm simply saying we don't know all the things at play here.) Based on the performance of this FO at fixing many other positions on this team, I believe they can, and will, make a concerted effort to fix that position this offseason. I can't predict your reaction to their efforts, but my gut anything they do probably won't be enough for you. As this is not a thread about guards, but rather QBs, I will make this my last response on the matter in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I doubt the Bills make a bold qb move, because there isn't a bold move to be made that isn't stupid or impossible to make. What they should do and will do, I think, is keep the crucial D players (hughes, extend Dareus, etc.) and upgrade the guard position via draft and free agency. I would also like to see them add play-making ability at rb and te. I would love to find a way to get Todd Gurley, but I'd be shocked if he were available in the third round as Buffalo Barbarian appears to suggest in his mock draft. If we did these things, given the quality of the d and the special teams, adequate qb play would be enough to get into the playoffs. I still believe EJ can grow into the position. Those who have already written him off are too young and ignorant to remember when it was normal for a young qb to take a number of years to develop. Most of the crop of young qbs who seemed to defeat that notion have regressed. To those who aren't young, well, old doesn't make one wise I guess. To those who want to do more than get into the playoffs, of course, everyone wants a superbowl victory. One can have a monster d like the 85 bears or last year's Seahawks and then adequate qb play can win a championship. I don't think Orton can be more than adequate; EJ might, the hell with the naysayers. Otherwise, one will have to wait for the 2016 draft, because the available options now are not going to net anything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Would a bold move be simply keeping Orton and Manuel? If you asked me, that'd be bold. Simply thinking we can actually upgrade the position without paying a heavy toll is negligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 If Cutler becomes a Bill, that means four out of five of the top QBs taken in 2006 draft have been Bills. People thought that was a good QB draft class. Vince Young QB Texas 1 3(3) Tennessee Matt Leinart QB USC 1 10(10) Arizona Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt 1 11(11) Denver Kellen Clemens QB Oregon 2 17(49) NY Jets Tarvaris Jackson QB Alabama State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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