Start EJ

[plenzmd1]

Lots of people saw it.

 

huh?

 

I really want poeple to explain to me if you take out the two Jets games..what has Orton done to make him untouchable?

 

8 tds, 7 picks in the 7 games outside of the Jets. I believe the offence has scored 9 TDS in those 7 games? And this guy is not replaceable at QB?

 

Basically one offensive TD a game..

 

Wish i knew how to pull stats, bet you redzone with EJ was better as well(again, take out the Jets games)

Edited December 8, 2014 by plenzmd1

[BringBackFergy]

CC football is practically the NFL.

You think?

[Rocky Landing]

huh?

 

I really want poeple to explain to me if you take out the two Jets games..what has Orton done to make him untouchable?

 

8 tds, 7 picks in the 7 games outside of the Jets. I believe the offence has scored 9 TDS in those 7 games? And this guy is not replaceable at QB?

 

Basically one offensive TD a game..

 

Wish i knew how to pull stats, bet you redzone with EJ was better as well(again, take out the Jets games)

Perhaps watching EJ get destroyed by the Packers would refresh your memory, but I highly doubt Morrone is going to go there.

[plenzmd1]

Perhaps watching EJ get destroyed by the Packers would refresh your memory, but I highly doubt Morrone is going to go there.

 

perhaps...watching Orton get destroyed by the Chiefs, Dolphins, Browns, Lions, Vikings, and Broncos has reinforced how bad he is.

[bisonbrigade]

play both, alternate possessions.

[MarkAF43]

Perhaps watching EJ get destroyed by the Packers would refresh your memory, but I highly doubt Morrone is going to go there.

 

So you're unwilling to provide a response as to what makes Orton untouchable?

[The Frankish Reich]

Who gives us the best chance to win next week vs. the Packers at home? I hate to say it, but it's Orton.

 

Is that the relevant question to be asking now? Probably not. I'd like to see all the playoff chances simulations first, but I think we're probably down to about a 1 percent chance now. That's low enough for me to start saying it's all about next year. Orton shouldn't be back. Manuel? Honestly, we don't know enough about him to say for certain now. So play him. Just like Cleveland now needs to go to Manziel. My fear: Orton will start, the Packers will beat us. Marrone should then start Manuel in Oakland, but he'll be afraid to -- losing to Oakland would be the final nail in his own coffin, so he'll stick with Orton. Will he then give EJ a shot against NE after we're mathematically eliminated (win or lose in Oakland)? Maybe, but that's not exactly the best scenario for giving EJ another shot and getting an honest evaluation of him. So I say you have to go to EJ now. You get the Packers on a short week, you're at home, why not?

[Maury Ballstein]

Perhaps watching EJ get destroyed by the Packers would refresh your memory, but I highly doubt Morrone is going to go there.

 

Watching Orton get destroyed by packers is better.

 

Over under on backwards runs toward the line of scrimmage is 2.5.

[MarkAF43]

Who gives us the best chance to win next week vs. the Packers at home? I hate to say it, but it's Orton.

 

Is that the relevant question to be asking now? Probably not. I'd like to see all the playoff chances simulations first, but I think we're probably down to about a 1 percent chance now. That's low enough for me to start saying it's all about next year. Orton shouldn't be back. Manuel? Honestly, we don't know enough about him to say for certain now. So play him. Just like Cleveland now needs to go to Manziel. My fear: Orton will start, the Packers will beat us. Marrone should then start Manuel in Oakland, but he'll be afraid to -- losing to Oakland would be the final nail in his own coffin, so he'll stick with Orton. Will he then give EJ a shot against NE after we're mathematically eliminated (win or lose in Oakland)? Maybe, but that's not exactly the best scenario for giving EJ another shot and getting an honest evaluation of him. So I say you have to go to EJ now. You get the Packers on a short week, you're at home, why not?

 

 

What is worth it? Watching a 9 year guy who you know exactly what you're going to get, or the QB you drafted in the 1st round showing if he's learned anything or gotten better since he was benched?

[Koufax]

Bench Orton. Start EJ. No further explanation required.

 

Has EJ learned decision making and accuracy since he was benched? Because while I hope he has been progressing, unless both of those things are different then they were in week 4, Orton gives us the best chance to beat the Packers, and that should be our only goal. If EJ can play better, I'm fine with a move at any point, but we have no reason to think he has made enough adjustments for that to be true, and week 15 isn't a time to be messing around.

 

By the way, Luck lost by 7 in Denver, the Chiefs lost by 7 in Denver, the 10 win Cardinals lost by 21, San Fran by 25, the Chargers by 14, and the Fish by 3. Some pretty good teams have fallen along the way to the Bronco's 7-0 record at home.

 

Orton isn't the answer, and the defense did most of the work, but right now I don't think EJ is a better chance to beat the Packers, and we aren't playing for 2015 quite yet.

[CountDorkula]

Who gives us the best chance to win next week vs. the Packers at home? I hate to say it, but it's Orton.

 

Is that the relevant question to be asking now? Probably not. I'd like to see all the playoff chances simulations first, but I think we're probably down to about a 1 percent chance now. That's low enough for me to start saying it's all about next year. Orton shouldn't be back. Manuel? Honestly, we don't know enough about him to say for certain now. So play him. Just like Cleveland now needs to go to Manziel. My fear: Orton will start, the Packers will beat us. Marrone should then start Manuel in Oakland, but he'll be afraid to -- losing to Oakland would be the final nail in his own coffin, so he'll stick with Orton. Will he then give EJ a shot against NE after we're mathematically eliminated (win or lose in Oakland)? Maybe, but that's not exactly the best scenario for giving EJ another shot and getting an honest evaluation of him. So I say you have to go to EJ now. You get the Packers on a short week, you're at home, why not?

 

I'm not so sure if this is true. While EJ was Wildly inaccurate he could do things with his legs. Orton literally ran backwards into the o-line. Both Qb's are/were missing terribly.

[26CornerBlitz]

Has EJ learned decision making and accuracy since he was benched? Because while I hope he has been progressing, unless both of those things are different then they were in week 4, Orton gives us the best chance to beat the Packers, and that should be our only goal. If EJ can play better, I'm fine with a move at any point, but we have no reason to think he has made enough adjustments for that to be true, and week 15 isn't a time to be messing around.

 

By the way, Luck lost by 7 in Denver, the Chiefs lost by 7 in Denver, the 10 win Cardinals lost by 21, San Fran by 25, the Chargers by 14, and the Fish by 3. Some pretty good teams have fallen along the way to the Bronco's 7-0 record at home.

 

Orton isn't the answer, and the defense did most of the work, but right now I don't think EJ is a better chance to beat the Packers, and we aren't playing for 2015 quite yet.

 

How anyone can post this after what we've witnessed from Orton for the last several games is beyond me.

[OldNMBillsFan]

Did I miss something? Improving at what? Holding a clipboard? What have you seen that would lead you to believe that EJ has improved as a quarterback?Lots of people saw it.

 

Do you have reading comprehension issues? It was about RT

[Campy]

If AJ Hawk growls really loudly when Orton breaks the huddle, he'll probably get Orton to turn his back to the OL and wait to be sacked before the ball's even snapped.

 

I'd much rather watch a young guy struggle than a 10-year vet puke on himself all day.

[plenzmd1]

Has EJ learned decision making and accuracy since he was benched?

 

 

Do you think Orton is better at those areas than EJ? And i am not being snarky, i just do not believe that to be the case.

 

I think Orton's accuracy is awful.and I think we saw his desion making in full bloom yesterday.

 

And i get it, hes played some damn good D's this year...but i just do not see this great vet.

[The Frankish Reich]

Has EJ learned decision making and accuracy since he was benched? Because while I hope he has been progressing, unless both of those things are different then they were in week 4, Orton gives us the best chance to beat the Packers, and that should be our only goal. If EJ can play better, I'm fine with a move at any point, but we have no reason to think he has made enough adjustments for that to be true, and week 15 isn't a time to be messing around.

 

By the way, Luck lost by 7 in Denver, the Chiefs lost by 7 in Denver, the 10 win Cardinals lost by 21, San Fran by 25, the Chargers by 14, and the Fish by 3. Some pretty good teams have fallen along the way to the Bronco's 7-0 record at home.

 

Orton isn't the answer, and the defense did most of the work, but right now I don't think EJ is a better chance to beat the Packers, and we aren't playing for 2015 quite yet.

That's why I think the Bills management needs to take a cold hard look at the various playoff scenarios/simulations that will come out this week. Because my hunch is that our chances are now in the infinitesimal range, and that we really are playing for 2015 now.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Wont happen.

 

It would be the same as the Bills admitting they are done and the season is over

 

CBF

[Koufax]

Uhh,The Bills are eliminated.....Have been for a while......like a chicken with its head cut off they keep moving but their fate is sealed. Put EJ in and start planning for next season. This one is over, in terms of playoffs. We just lost in the pre first round yesterday to a good team playing bad football and still having their way with us.

 

I'm very sorry that Norwood and the drought have impacted your judgment, or maybe if you are just trolling, but the Bills are far from eliminated. Just like 31 other teams they are almost certainly not winning the Super Bowl this year, and like 19 others, they are very likely to come up short of the playoffs when all is said and done.

 

But what is not up for discussion is right now they are *playing* for the playoffs, and winning three games has a really good chance of getting them there. So a team who doesn't play the first of those three games like they expect to win them would be pathetic.

 

Playing meaningful week 17 football would already be a big positive step forward as well, as this team continues to try to change culture and history and just play good football. Regardless of what happens in the next few weeks, that is part of the foundation of 2015. And lastly, I don't think this team is a lot worse than the 9-7 Giants who ended up getting hot and upending the 16-0 Patriots.

 

I'm not expecting that to happen, but I sure am expecting this team to do everything in its power to win the next game and feel like they are playing for something meaningful while trying to do that.

[The Frankish Reich]

I'm very sorry that Norwood and the drought have impacted your judgment, or maybe if you are just trolling, but the Bills are far from eliminated. Just like 31 other teams they are almost certainly not winning the Super Bowl this year, and like 19 others, they are very likely to come up short of the playoffs when all is said and done.

 

But what is not up for discussion is right now they are *playing* for the playoffs, and winning three games has a really good chance of getting them there. So a team who doesn't play the first of those three games like they expect to win them would be pathetic.

 

Playing meaningful week 17 football would already be a big positive step forward as well, as this team continues to try to change culture and history and just play good football. Regardless of what happens in the next few weeks, that is part of the foundation of 2015. And lastly, I don't think this team is a lot worse than the 9-7 Giants who ended up getting hot and upending the 16-0 Patriots.

 

I'm not expecting that to happen, but I sure am expecting this team to do everything in its power to win the next game and feel like they are playing for something meaningful while trying to do that.

Does winning out really give us a good (or even reasonable) chance of making the playoffs? We'll see when all the simulations/playoff scenarios come out tomorrow and Wednesday, but from what I've seen a 10-6 record would still leave us as a very longshot for making the playoffs. If that's true, then it's time to start playing for next year.

[plenzmd1]

Wont happen.

 

It would be the same as the Bills admitting they are done and the season is over

 

CBF

 

Me thinks it more about Doug's self preservation.

 

EJ wins the game...oh boy will we go back to games like KC, Miami, and yesterday and think what could we have done with a decent QB ?

 

Aint no way EJ sees the field this year exceptin if Marone is extended, or Whaley makes a power play and forces Marone to play him.

 

I must be an idiot, cause i do not believe EJ can play worse than Orton right now.

[CountDorkula]

I'm very sorry that Norwood and the drought have impacted your judgment, or maybe if you are just trolling, but the Bills are far from eliminated. Just like 31 other teams they are almost certainly not winning the Super Bowl this year, and like 19 others, they are very likely to come up short of the playoffs when all is said and done.

 

But what is not up for discussion is right now they are *playing* for the playoffs, and winning three games has a really good chance of getting them there. So a team who doesn't play the first of those three games like they expect to win them would be pathetic.

 

Playing meaningful week 17 football would already be a big positive step forward as well, as this team continues to try to change culture and history and just play good football. Regardless of what happens in the next few weeks, that is part of the foundation of 2015. And lastly, I don't think this team is a lot worse than the 9-7 Giants who ended up getting hot and upending the 16-0 Patriots.

 

I'm not expecting that to happen, but I sure am expecting this team to do everything in its power to win the next game and feel like they are playing for something meaningful while trying to do that.

 

That involves watching the starting QB turn its back to the o-line, take a sack without being hit. Thrown wildly inaccurate passes, Slide before getting a first down. Are we talking EJ or Orton here. One is a second year player and the other is a 9-year vet, yet they are playing on the same level.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Me thinks it more about Doug's self preservation.

 

EJ wins the game...oh boy will we go back to games like KC, Miami, and yesterday and think what could we have done with a decent QB ?

 

Aint no way EJ sees the field this year exceptin if Marone is extended, or Whaley makes a power play and forces Marone to play him.

 

I must be an idiot, cause i do not believe EJ can play worse than Orton right now.

 

 

I thought to myself on that qb slide from Orton that if EJ was in that would have been a first down

 

 

CBF

[plenzmd1]

I thought to myself on that qb slide from Orton that if EJ was in that would have been a first down

 

 

CBF

 

You know CBF...i am just lost.

 

Everyone looks to that Houston game, and says "we win that game with a just a competent QB"

 

I look at KC, Miami, and yesterday, and say the same thing.

 

But one guy should never play again, the other guy"gives us a better chance at winning".

 

I just dont get it.

 

As a bonus, one guy is absolutely going to be here next here.

 

One guy quit on his last team, and has an option whether he wants to play here or not next year.

 

And we all in on the guy who has the option...and sure as chit looks like, in hockey parlance...is lacking "compete" right now.

 

Christ, we know who would be playing if Teddy was coaching the Bills

Edited December 8, 2014 by plenzmd1

[eball]

I must be an idiot, cause i do not believe EJ can play worse than Orton right now.

 

Call us dumb and dumber, then, because I agree with you.

[Rocky Landing]

Has it really been so long since EJ was on the field that so many people have forgotten how bad he was? When Orton took the field in week 5, having not played a single snap, and having only been with the team for five weeks, it was an instant, and obvious improvement. And, he won't really that good. Where were the EJ fans then? Rather quiet, as I recall. The Orton we have now is the same Orton we had then, and no one was particularly excited by it, but it was clear that he gave us a better chance for the season, and he has. And now the EJ fanatics, with some serious memory issues, are trying to sell EJ with a clean jersey.

 

I almost hope they do play EJ against the Packers-- a game we have little chance of winning-- just so we won't have to hear from the EJ fanatics for the rest of the season.

[plenzmd1]

Call us dumb and dumber, then, because I agree with you.

 

haha

[Canadian Bills Fan]

You know CBF...i am just lost.

 

Everyone looks to that Houston game, and says "we win that game with a just a competent QB"

 

I look at KC, Miami, and yesterday, and say the same thing.

 

But one guy should never play again, the other guy"gives us a better chance at winning".

 

I just dont get it.

 

As a bonus, one guy is absolutely going to be here next here.

 

One guy quit on his last team, and has an option whether he wants to play here or not next year.

 

And we all in on the guy who has the option...and sure as chit looks like, in hockey parlance...is lacking "compete" right now.

 

Christ, we know who would be playing if Teddy was coaching the Bills

 

I understand what you are saying but I never said that we would win the game if EJ was playing only that he probably would have got the first down thats all.

 

CBF

[Maury Ballstein]

I almost hope they do play EJ against the Packers-- a game we have little chance of winning-- just so we won't have to hear from the EJ fanatics for the rest of the season.

 

Good luck with that. Free EJ!

 

[plenzmd1]

Has it really been so long since EJ was on the field that so many people have forgotten how bad he was? When Orton took the field in week 5, having not played a single snap, and having only been with the team for five weeks, it was an instant, and obvious improvement. And, he won't really that good. Where were the EJ fans then? Rather quiet, as I recall. The Orton we have now is the same Orton we had then, and no one was particularly excited by it, but it was clear that he gave us a better chance for the season, and he has. And now the EJ fanatics, with some serious memory issues, are trying to sell EJ with a clean jersey.

 

I almost hope they do play EJ against the Packers-- a game we have little chance of winning-- just so we won't have to hear from the EJ fanatics for the rest of the season.

 

i think most of us are a long way from "EJ Fanatics"

 

But , i tend to think the opposite. I think people are such"EJ Haters" they fail to see how awful Orton is and may have cost us at least 3 wins.

 

9 offensive TDS in 7 games(taking the Jets out) ...

 

8TDS, 7 picks..., has regressed during the season, lacks compete right now.

 

I dont know...I just don't get the Orton is the better option right now...you don't get the EJ may be the better option...

 

never the twain shall meet

[C.Biscuit97]

Has it really been so long since EJ was on the field that so many people have forgotten how bad he was? When Orton took the field in week 5, having not played a single snap, and having only been with the team for five weeks, it was an instant, and obvious improvement. And, he won't really that good. Where were the EJ fans then? Rather quiet, as I recall. The Orton we have now is the same Orton we had then, and no one was particularly excited by it, but it was clear that he gave us a better chance for the season, and he has. And now the EJ fanatics, with some serious memory issues, are trying to sell EJ with a clean jersey.

 

I almost hope they do play EJ against the Packers-- a game we have little chance of winning-- just so we won't have to hear from the EJ fanatics for the rest of the season.

 

Orton's QBR is about 2 points higher than EJ's from his rookie year. Orton is in his 9th year.

 

We beat Miami with EJ, Orton didn't score a td.

 

I'm convinced the only people who want Orton to start are unathletic guys with terrible haircuts because Orton is their idol. Again, it's not Orton's fault. But he is what he is. You have to see what the young player has. And it's not about the player. If EJ was the 9th year vet and Orton was in his 2nd year, I'd want Orton.

 

P.S. It's pathetic you are rooting for Manuel to fail. Pathetic.

Edited December 8, 2014 by C.Biscuit97

[5 Wide]

I don't like either of them. This sucks. That is all

 

 

[plenzmd1]

I don't like either of them. This sucks. That is all

 

pretty close to where i am as well

 

Actually, that prolly 99% of the board!

[MarkAF43]

pretty close to where i am as well

 

Actually, that prolly 99% of the board!

 

Not true, you're either an EJ Fanatic, or an Orton guy. nothing else. Haven't you guys learned anything while here? It's one against the other.

[C.Biscuit97]

pretty close to where i am as well

 

Actually, that prolly 99% of the board!

 

Saying anyone sucks, much less a QB, after 14 games is the definition of stupid. Dareus was a bust on this board at one point. Mario was a disappointment. Gilmore sucks according to some and he helped shut down Peyton.

 

This boner people have to call someone a bust is silly. Especially when the same people were probably awful at their jobs after 2 years.

[Freddie's Dead]

And we all in on the guy who has the option...and sure as chit looks like, in hockey parlance...is lacking "compete" right now.

 

Christ, we know who would be playing if Teddy was coaching the Bills

 

Lacking compete = pu$$y. Uncle Ted would start EJ, and Orton would be healthy scratch. Wait, we do that with Mike Williams.

[FireChan]

 

 

 

I thought to myself on that qb slide from Orton that if EJ was in that would have been a first down

 

 

CBF

 

More than likely, EJ would have done his patented scramble then throw the ball out of bounds maneuver.

[Sumin]

No. Don't play EJ the rest of the way. That way, it'll be a long way back to the Houston game and maybe other teams will forget like the OP that he doesn't belong on an NFL field and we can steal a 6th Rounder from someone for him.

 

Oh, acquiring that sixth rounder for a 1st round pick who has played less than one season (14 games) will be very beneficial. the last time we got a sixth round pick we traded for Mike Williams!!!! Championship!!!!'

[Fan in San Diego]

Hard to argue that Orton should continue to start after the pu$$y slide. If I'm Fred Jackson, I'm saying C'mon Man! Unfortunately for us, Orton is here to stay for the forseeable future, unless EJ shows dramatic improvement. But after today, how can you make the argument that Orton gives you a better chance to win? Or EJ can "learn" from Orton? What's he gonna learn, how to be a pu$$y?

 

I agree that kitty slide sealed his fate. I would have benched him after that. Start EJ.

[Rocky Landing]

Orton's QBR is about 2 points higher than EJ's from his rookie year. Orton is in his 9th year.

 

We beat Miami with EJ, Orton didn't score a td.

 

I'm convinced the only people who want Orton to start are unathletic guys with terrible haircuts because Orton is their idol. Again, it's not Orton's fault. But he is what he is. You have to see what the young player has. And it's not about the player. If EJ was the 9th year vet and Orton was in his 2nd year, I'd want Orton.

 

P.S. It's pathetic you are rooting for Manuel to fail. Pathetic.

I am most certainly not "rooting for Manuel to fail." I'm not declaring him a bust. Nor do I have any illusions of Orton being any sort of long term answer. I just have a memory. If there was some reason I should believe that Manuel is, right now, a better option at QB, I would change my mind. So far, at least on this thread, what I have read is a lot of selective criticism of Orton, paired with selective excuses for Manuel.

 

That you have "convinced" yourself that people trying to look at the situation objectively, and with perspective (but just happen to disagree with you) must resemble your petty insult will do little to sway me. In fact, your petty insult is preposterous. I have not read one comment, in any thread-- not one-- in which someone could be described as idolizing Kyle Orton. I haven't even read anyone making excuses for him.

 

Conversely, to read the people who, like yourself, bash him incessantly, one might think that Watkins had not fumbled the ball (or dropped numerous passes in the last few games, for that matter), that a sixty yard interception return had not been erased by a dumb penalty, that our O-line had been the slightest bit of help to our running backs, or that we had not been suffering from poor play calling.

[K-9]

Disagree. Keep EJ on the bench and let him compete in the off season. This is Orton's show at the moment and it doesn't do EJ any good to have to come in only to be ridiculed if he doesn't immediately rally them to three wins in a row. And I certainly don't want him playing in a "run for the bus" game, either. He needs to play meaningful games surrounded by teammates with meaningful expectations.

 

GO BILLS!!!