There has not been a QB worth signing/drafting since 2013

[justnzane]

Man there is some weird revisionist history here. Whaley took over after the 2013 draft. He did not draft EJ, the good ol Southern hick did. That same good ol Southern hick got scammed by a couple of punks. They recorded him talking crap about Fritzy, which led to his release.

 

Whaley's potential QB's that were realistically possible starters as FA's or top 3 round QB's are:

Kolb

Orton

Whitehurst

McCown

Thad

EJ

Manziel

Bridgewater

Carr

Garropolo

 

None of these QB's have shown that they can be a long-term solution. When Whaley has a chance to find better talent, we'll see what can be done. However, he took over after last year's draft, not before.

[thebandit27]

My guess is that it was an attempt to counter the perpetual excuse machine, which is starting to get oiled for the 2015 season.

 

I'm not sure what excuse machine you're referring to...I've seen quite a bit of objective analysis here; very few folks slinging excuses.

 

Man there is some weird revisionist history here. Whaley took over after the 2013 draft. He did not draft EJ, the good ol Southern hick did. That same good ol Southern hick got scammed by a couple of punks. They recorded him talking crap about Fritzy, which led to his release.

 

Whaley's potential QB's that were realistically possible starters as FA's or top 3 round QB's are:

Kolb

Orton

Whitehurst

McCown

Thad

EJ

Manziel

Bridgewater

Carr

Garropolo

 

None of these QB's have shown that they can be a long-term solution. When Whaley has a chance to find better talent, we'll see what can be done. However, he took over after last year's draft, not before.

 

Whaley definitely had a hand in the drafting of EJ. Of all the QBs eligible for the 2013 draft, he liked EJ the best, so he took him in round 1. I cannot blame him; they felt EJ had the potential to be a franchise guy. They HAD to pick a QB in that draft, and as I've said, if you like a guy as a possible franchise QB, take him early. How many teams wish they'd have taken Russell Wilson in the top 10 in 2012? Know what I mean?

[GG]

I'm not sure what excuse machine you're referring to...I've seen quite a bit of objective analysis here; very few folks slinging excuses.

 

The excuse that OBD should be absolved of blame for the QB situation because there hasn't been a QB worth drafting or signing since 2013.

 

Which is a slightly different take on the same refrain by the OP. It's a familiar ruse to frame the issue that shows Whaley/Nix made the right moves given the circumstances. But of course it misses the big picture of why the team was backed into a corner in having to select a QB early in the worst draft for QBs in about 15 years. All wrapped neatly in another broadside at the fanbase, who obviously would have revolted if Nix/Whaley didn't cut Fitzpatrick two springs ago.

[thebandit27]

The excuse that OBD should be absolved of blame for the QB situation because there hasn't been a QB worth drafting or signing since 2013.

 

Which is a slightly different take on the same refrain by the OP. It's a familiar ruse to frame the issue that shows Whaley/Nix made the right moves given the circumstances. But of course it misses the big picture of why the team was backed into a corner in having to select a QB early in the worst draft for QBs in about 15 years. All wrapped neatly in another broadside at the fanbase, who obviously would have revolted if Nix/Whaley didn't cut Fitzpatrick two springs ago.

 

I guess I didn't pay much attention to the posting history, so I'll have to plead ignorance in that regard.

 

I can only speak to my opinion, which is that Nix ignored the position for far too long in passing on guys like Dalton, Kaepernick, and Wilson. They had to draft a QB in 2013, regardless of what they did with Fitz. As I've said, if you think a guy could be your franchise guy, you take him, which is what they did with EJ. I don't fault Whaley for any of that...what I do fault Whaley with is not having a better Plan B. I wasn't thrilled with the Kolb plan, and although they kept in touch with Orton over some time period, it's not locked in until he's signed, so that bothers me as well.

 

Overall though, I think Whaley's done a very good job accumulating talent on the roster.

[GG]

I can only speak to my opinion, which is that Nix ignored the position for far too long in passing on guys like Dalton, Kaepernick, and Wilson. They had to draft a QB in 2013, regardless of what they did with Fitz. As I've said, if you think a guy could be your franchise guy, you take him, which is what they did with EJ. I don't fault Whaley for any of that...what I do fault Whaley with is not having a better Plan B. I wasn't thrilled with the Kolb plan, and although they kept in touch with Orton over some time period, it's not locked in until he's signed, so that bothers me as well.

 

This was a big issue in the spring and is now a glaring spotlight. Passing on the 3 M's after 4th was a huge error.

[T master]

WGR was discussing Whaley's tenure at GM this morning, citing his "failure" in addressing the QB situation as his biggest black mark. Yet no one who chastises Whaley can say who should be QB for the Bills, only that what we have isn't good enough.

 

I say there is no QB that was available in the last two drafts our available in free agency that would meet the standard of play we are demanding at QB. Sure there are plenty of QBs that you might think are good, or who might be good eventually. But there is no QB in the last two years who was available to Whaley that is franchise caliber.

 

So does out even make sense to complain about the QB situation when there wasn't a realistic option? It's like being wrong on a test where all the answers are wrong.

 

UH CAN YOU SAY RUSSEL WILSON ??? SUPER BOWL WINNING QB THAT WAS AVAILABLE WHEN WE TOOK THAT GUY THAT IS NO LONGER ON THE TEAM !! OH YAH TJ WHAT'S HIS NAME ...

 

Wilsons rookie year was 2 years ago . I rest my case ...

[C.Biscuit97]

The 2013 QB class was the worst ever!!! Oh wait, this year's group's is even worse.

 

And why even bother drafting another QB? The second he struggles, the whiners will want him bench. Bring back Orton and EJ, pray EJ wins the job, and draft another guy. Sick of hoping on other teams' trash.

[Sisyphean Bills]

You can never have enough 4th round CBs.

 

While it is fun to stand outside the fence and criticize the paint job of the merry-go-round and say the ride has too many deer and headlights, and simply not enough heavy horses, unless they actually buy a freaking ticket, stand in line, and get on the damn thing, they are guaranteeing only one thing: they have zero chance of grabbing the brass ring.

[GG]

The 2013 QB class was the worst ever!!! Oh wait, this year's group's is even worse.

 

Are you serious with this comment?

[GunnerBill]

Which is a slightly different take on the same refrain by the OP. It's a familiar ruse to frame the issue that shows Whaley/Nix made the right moves given the circumstances. But of course it misses the big picture of why the team was backed into a corner in having to select a QB early in the worst draft for QBs in about 15 years. All wrapped neatly in another broadside at the fanbase, who obviously would have revolted if Nix/Whaley didn't cut Fitzpatrick two springs ago.

 

I certainly don't absolve Nix and his staff, which included Whaley of blame for backing us into that 2013 corner and if anyone interpreted my post as doing that then I apologise for the confusion. When this team found out that Fitz was at least a reasonably competent placeholder (even if there was a period where they thought he could be more than that) they should have been looking for guys in the draft, maybe not in the first but in mid rounds, who they could bring in and try to develop as eventual contenders. The idea that Fitzpatrick was going to be undermined if we had anyone less useless than Brohm and Thigpen backing him up was nonsensical. You could have brought in a young guy in the mid rounds, still been clear that Fitz was your starter and then brought that guy on slowly. Obviously Russell Wilson is the one we all hark back to but I can't believe that Levi Brown in the 7th was the ONLY attempt they made. The fact that they basically said "Fitz is our guy" and then sat on their hands for 3 years is inexcusable really.

[chris heff]

Nix taking Graham over Wilspn is the most obvious mistake, but how is that on Whaley? What is on Whaley is the complete mishandling of Manuel. Maybe Kolb was the best option, I don't think Fitz wanted to stay. However, and I've said this before, rookie HC, rookie OC, no QB coach, it's just idiotic. By Hackett's own admission it was a blunder.

 

Tha being said the Sheppard for Hughs trade maybe one of the best trades of this young century. The trade that brought both EJ and Kiko, even if EJ is a bust, which I don't believe, is a pretty good move. Sammy trade? Looks like we gave up a mid first rounder for him, not bad.

 

In the end I think Whaley has done more good than bad.

[C.Biscuit97]

Are you serious with this comment?

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

 

 

Compare 2013's rookie QB's QBR with this year's group. Glennon had a higher QBR than any of this year's and EJ was 1 off the 2014 leader (Bridgewater). Bortles has QBR is 20 points lower than EJ's rookie year.

 

And it's not to give up on this year's group at all. It's just insane the expectations fans have for young QBs. IF you struggle at the hardest position in sports (and given the pressure, maybe one of the hardest jobs you can have) right away, you are trash. It's dumb.

 

Nix taking Graham over Wilspn is the most obvious mistake, but how is that on Whaley? What is on Whaley is the complete mishandling of Manuel. Maybe Kolb was the best option, I don't think Fitz wanted to stay. However, and I've said this before, rookie HC, rookie OC, no QB coach, it's just idiotic. By Hackett's own admission it was a blunder.

 

Tha being said the Sheppard for Hughs trade maybe one of the best trades of this young century. The trade that brought both EJ and Kiko, even if EJ is a bust, which I don't believe, is a pretty good move. Sammy trade? Looks like we gave up a mid first rounder for him, not bad.

 

In the end I think Whaley has done more good than bad.

 

Agreed. The idea of Hackett being OC and QB coach for a rookie QB is PAris Hilton dumb.

[GG]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

 

 

Compare 2013's rookie QB's QBR with this year's group. Glennon had a higher QBR than any of this year's and EJ was 1 off the 2014 leader (Bridgewater). Bortles has QBR is 20 points lower than EJ's rookie year.

 

And it's not to give up on this year's group at all. It's just insane the expectations fans have for young QBs. IF you struggle at the hardest position in sports (and given the pressure, maybe one of the hardest jobs you can have) right away, you are trash. It's dumb.

 

This is precisely why using only statistics to prove a point fail. Despite their glorious QBR stats, the 2013 class can't make it onto the playing field anymore. The 2014 class already has 4 starters who have looked much better than their 2013 counterparts, with 1 who will likely start soon, and the other would probably be pushing for more playing time if he wasn't stuck behind Brady.

 

And I agree that young QBs are thrust into action far earlier than they're ready. But, there shouldn't even be a debate on whether the 2013 QB class is in the same league as the 2014 class.

[BillsVet]

Man there is some weird revisionist history here. Whaley took over after the 2013 draft. He did not draft EJ, the good ol Southern hick did. That same good ol Southern hick got scammed by a couple of punks. They recorded him talking crap about Fritzy, which led to his release.

 

None of these QB's have shown that they can be a long-term solution. When Whaley has a chance to find better talent, we'll see what can be done. However, he took over after last year's draft, not before.

 

If you think the decision to "retire" Nix was made the day of the announcement or after the 2013 draft you're fooling yourself. And why would the Bills, as backward as they can be, allow the outgoing GM to make the QB pick for the future GM? Because I'm sure they were planning ahead after that 2012 season ended and figured that was the time to make Whaley GM. And that they needed a QB because Fitz wasn't good enough

 

People act like finding a QB is mostly luck, i.e. draft positioning or finding someone off the street or perhaps in UFA. It's not. If you identify a guy (which Nix couldn't or wouldn't do) that you like, it may take some maneuvering to move up and get him. Which Nix patently refused to do, preferring to let the draft come to him.

 

It's time the Bills stop waiting for their ship to come in re: QB's and start making their own luck. Their handling of the QB position across multiple GM's and HC's has been atrocious.

[papazoid]

the 2015 draft class is expected to have 2 QB's go in the first 10 picks of the first round. Mariota and Winston.

[GunnerBill]

the 2015 draft class is expected to have 2 QB's go in the first 10 picks of the first round. Mariota and Winston.

 

Yep and they are both considerably better prospects than anything in 2013 or 2014 to my mind.

[TH3]

Mariota and Winston are both hardly locks to become successful w/o years of experience. The more I read this thread - the more it become apparent that maybe the FO actually knew what they were doing. There are very few options for the next sure fire QB - either through the draft or through FA - in fact one could say you would be silly to keep dreaming about the next Luck - it ain't gonna happen.

 

Therefore the path to he playoffs is going to be an actual doable solution - strong D, strong running game, and a great receiving corp that will compliment what in all scenarios is going be a medium level QB - pretty much the path we are on.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Out of 32 teams in the NFL, there are around 20 who lack franchise QB's. So not finding one in a generation is about average for the league. That's the basic problem in the league, there are 32 teams and 10 great QB's. So teams get "desperate" and hope someone like an EJ or JP or Trent become that guy. If not move on.

 

If you can't come up with a legitimate franchise qb in a generatiion from the draft or from the market then your organization is a failure. Russell Wilson was available in the third round but Buddy preferred a track receiver. Just because you can't come up with an elite qb that doesn't excuse you from not coming up with a legitimate franchise qb. Excuses don't resolve problems they perpetuate them

[C.Biscuit97]

This is precisely why using only statistics to prove a point fail. Despite their glorious QBR stats, the 2013 class can't make it onto the playing field anymore. The 2014 class already has 4 starters who have looked much better than their 2013 counterparts, with 1 who will likely start soon, and the other would probably be pushing for more playing time if he wasn't stuck behind Brady.

 

And I agree that young QBs are thrust into action far earlier than they're ready. But, there shouldn't even be a debate on whether the 2013 QB class is in the same league as the 2014 class.

 

Completely disagree and it's your own biases. This class isn't as good as some people wanted it to be. There isn't one QB in this class than I'd rather have than EJ. Bortles, who I never liked and is like a less athletic version of EJ, has been completely awful. Carr is just another guy. We'll see how Johnny Hobbit does but I have serious doubts since he won't be able to run around (hi Kyle Williams) and throw off his back foot to a 6"5" beast of receiver. And Bridgewater looks the most NFL ready but his arm makes Chad Pennington's look like John Elway.

 

But you're probably right. EJ definitely benefits from learning under noted QB guru Nate Hackett. Definite advantage for EJ.

[thebandit27]

Out of 32 teams in the NFL, there are around 20 who lack franchise QB's. So not finding one in a generation is about average for the league. That's the basic problem in the league, there are 32 teams and 10 great QB's. So teams get "desperate" and hope someone like an EJ or JP or Trent become that guy. If not move on.

 

I've discussed this point in the past, but it really all depends upon your definition of "franchise". To me, a franchise guy is someone that a team can win a Superbowl with...it's entirely different from "elite" IMO. I count them like this:

 

Elite (best of the best, no exceptions...can do it all)

 

Luck

Rodgers

 

Borderline Elite (i.e. you can make an argument for including them in the elite group)

 

P. Manning

Brady

Brees

 

Franchise (these guys can win a Superbowl provided that the rest of their team is good enough)

 

Flacco

Dalton

Big Ben

Rivers

Wilson

Palmer

Kaepernick

Stafford

Newton

Ryan

E. Manning

Romo

 

So that's 17 guys I would say are franchise QBs. The rest are either:

 

Up for debate

 

Tannehill

A. Smith

S. Bradford

J. Cutler

RG3

Foles

Orton

 

Too Early to Tell

Bortles

Carr

Bridgewater

Manziel

Manuel

Glennon

Mettenberger

 

or

 

Not a Chance

 

G. Smith

Fitzpatrick

[PaattMaann]

Mariota and Winston are both hardly locks to become successful w/o years of experience. The more I read this thread - the more it become apparent that maybe the FO actually knew what they were doing. There are very few options for the next sure fire QB - either through the draft or through FA - in fact one could say you would be silly to keep dreaming about the next Luck - it ain't gonna happen.

 

Therefore the path to he playoffs is going to be an actual doable solution - strong D, strong running game, and a great receiving corp that will compliment what in all scenarios is going be a medium level QB - pretty much the path we are on.

 

great post, couldnt agree more

 

build the team, build the team the right way, build the team that a COMPETENT QB can step into and guide to the playoffs....thats how you sustain success, thats how you win and thats how you change the loser ass culture we have had for 15 years

 

It all boils down to the QB, but if you do it right, you dont need a Luck/Brady/Manning/Rodgers to win, you can get it done with a Dilfer/Flacco type QB....just someone competent....its easier to find a competent QB than a truly franchise guy

 

love what Whaleys done here and hope Pegula is smart enough to keep him here for the long haul

[CardinalScotts]

WGR was discussing Whaley's tenure at GM this morning, citing his "failure" in addressing the QB situation as his biggest black mark. Yet no one who chastises Whaley can say who should be QB for the Bills, only that what we have isn't good enough.

 

I say there is no QB that was available in the last two drafts our available in free agency that would meet the standard of play we are demanding at QB. Sure there are plenty of QBs that you might think are good, or who might be good eventually. But there is no QB in the last two years who was available to Whaley that is franchise caliber.

 

So does out even make sense to complain about the QB situation when there wasn't a realistic option? It's like being wrong on a test where all the answers are wrong.

 

this is a great point, typical WGR who were they suppose to get? People will bring up Russel Wilson or Keapernick yes with a kick butt line and a great running game and a defense that gives up less than 10points then they can play qb. As we've seen with Seattle and 49ers this year when the defense gives up 20 or more Ole Russ and Kap can't do much to help.

 

They don't know either negative radio is easy to do especially when your not very good at it = Howie, Jeremy, Schoop, Bulldog......Mathew Collier, Sal Cappacio don't belong I respect their opinions.

[C.Biscuit97]

I've discussed this point in the past, but it really all depends upon your definition of "franchise". To me, a franchise guy is someone that a team can win a Superbowl with...it's entirely different from "elite" IMO. I count them like this:

 

Elite (best of the best, no exceptions...can do it all)

 

Luck

Rodgers

 

Borderline Elite (i.e. you can make an argument for including them in the elite group)

 

P. Manning

Brady

Brees

 

Franchise (these guys can win a Superbowl provided that the rest of their team is good enough)

 

Flacco

Dalton

Big Ben

Rivers

Wilson

Palmer

Kaepernick

Stafford

Newton

Ryan

E. Manning

Romo

 

So that's 17 guys I would say are franchise QBs. The rest are either:

 

Up for debate

 

Tannehill

A. Smith

S. Bradford

J. Cutler

RG3

Foles

Orton

 

Too Early to Tell

Bortles

Carr

Bridgewater

Manziel

Manuel

Glennon

Mettenberger

 

or

 

Not a Chance

 

G. Smith

Fitzpatrick

 

 

Very good list, one exception:

 

Guys who have played on 5 teams who are really good backups who are pretty much the same player only Bills fans hate the ex one but make excuses for the new one:

 

Orton

Fitzpatrick

 

Also, let's just wait on Luck. He's a beast but he feasts against bad teams. He has gotten destroyed by the Pats in 3 games. I need a little more from him. He will probably get there, but let's not say he's elite yet. And Brady & Manning belong in the elite group.

[Punching Bag]

so, to summarize.....

 

 

#1- no matter where the bills pick in the draft, there will be a better player at another position that should be picked instead of a QB.

 

#2- all the possible free agent QB's in 2015 are garbage.

 

#3- it's not whaley's fault.

 

 

(laffin)

 

To summarize

 

#1- no matter where the bills pick in the draft, there will be a better player at another position that should be picked that papazoid would have picked if GM

 

#2- all the possible free agent QB's in 2015 are better than any Bills QB.

 

#3- it's all whaley's fault.

 

 

 

(laffin)

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

So you have 17 I said 12, not too far off. I'd also argue that without an exceptional team around him, I doubt that Wilson, Kaepernick, Newton, Dalton, and maybe even Flacco could win a SB on their own talents.

 

I'd then lump your elite and borderline elite, plus Big Ben, Romo, Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, and Eli minus the last two seasons into my "franchise" group. Even though some like a Romo or Rivers, haven't won a SB, I do feel they are capable of it with even decent talent Though Romo will find a way to self destruct every year.

 

 

I've discussed this point in the past, but it really all depends upon your definition of "franchise". To me, a franchise guy is someone that a team can win a Superbowl with...it's entirely different from "elite" IMO. I count them like this:

 

Elite (best of the best, no exceptions...can do it all)

 

Luck

Rodgers

 

Borderline Elite (i.e. you can make an argument for including them in the elite group)

 

P. Manning

Brady

Brees

 

Franchise (these guys can win a Superbowl provided that the rest of their team is good enough)

 

Flacco

Dalton

Big Ben

Rivers

Wilson

Palmer

Kaepernick

Stafford

Newton

Ryan

E. Manning

Romo

 

So that's 17 guys I would say are franchise QBs. The rest are either:

 

Up for debate

 

Tannehill

A. Smith

S. Bradford

J. Cutler

RG3

Foles

Orton

 

Too Early to Tell

Bortles

Carr

Bridgewater

Manziel

Manuel

Glennon

Mettenberger

 

or

 

Not a Chance

 

G. Smith

Fitzpatrick

[26CornerBlitz]

Rookie QB progress report

Which rookie quarterback projects as an Alex Smith-type pro -- and which resembles Derek Anderson? Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks check in on Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel and Co.

[thebandit27]

So you have 17 I said 12, not too far off. I'd also argue that without an exceptional team around him, I doubt that Wilson, Kaepernick, Newton, Dalton, and maybe even Flacco could win a SB on their own talents.

 

I'd then lump your elite and borderline elite, plus Big Ben, Romo, Stafford, Rivers, Ryan, and Eli minus the last two seasons into my "franchise" group. Even though some like a Romo or Rivers, haven't won a SB, I do feel they are capable of it with even decent talent Though Romo will find a way to self destruct every year.

 

Sure, that's reasonable. By no means do I consider myself an authority on the topic; it's very much subjective.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

FWIW, EJ may still have a chance as a starter, Please no bashing. it's a segue into something I just read.

 

Since 2008 every Bills first round draft pick is still on the team. (per BB mobile app)

[thebandit27]

FWIW, EJ may still have a chance as a starter, Please no bashing. it's a segue into something I just read.

 

Since 2008 every Bills first round draft pick is still on the team. (per BB mobile app)

 

Aaron Maybin was drafted 11th overall in 2009...he's long gone.