The Frankish Reich Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Let me offer some lukewarm support for NFL officiating (while pointing out that this call was the exception). Up until now, the TV officiating "experts" like Mike Carey have, as far as I can tell, been 100% in agreement with what the replay officials decide. That means that the rulebook must be pretty clear. Sometimes I don't understand the rule (particularly on "did he have possession" calls), but at least there appears to be a consensus about the application of the rule to a specific situation. That's what was so jarring about this call. It seemed a no-brainer to the fans and to the TV expert. It was a fumble. It would've been an incomplete pass under the tuck rule, but now it was clearly a fumble. When different experts see the same thing and come to contrary conclusions, you've got a bad/ambiguous rule, not just an ambiguous video. The latter is understandable; that's why you need clear/convincing evidence to overturn the call on the field. The former is inexcusable: clear video, a panel of experts splits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 It's pretty scary that they can miss this call with the current replay review system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichVP Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 ESPN thinks it was a forward pass as well. I'm wondering if anyone saying it was a forward pass actually watched it. You can tell it was not a pass real time, as the refs initially called. You didn't need a review or slow motion to know what we saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Williams did Johnny Football a favor by shoving him to the ground. If he hit Manziel full-on at full speed and landed on top of him, there'd be nothing left but an orange-y-brown, ego-soaked, greasy smear. All in good time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Manziel himself said it wasn't a forward pass -and OF COURSE it wasn't. It leaves me scared that replay not only didn't uphold the call on the field, they deemed there was enough visual evidence to overturn. Travesty that MUST be fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 ESPN thinks it was a forward pass as well. I'm wondering if anyone saying it was a forward pass actually watched it. You can tell it was not a pass real time, as the refs initially called. You didn't need a review or slow motion to know what we saw. LOL that's pretty much the NFL talking isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 ESPN thinks it was a forward pass as well. I'm wondering if anyone saying it was a forward pass actually watched it. You can tell it was not a pass real time, as the refs initially called. You didn't need a review or slow motion to know what we saw. Actually, this is a plausible defense. I have got to say that while I disagreed with this call, I thought Jerome Bolger overall called a heck of a game. Maybe the best game of the year for us. As much as I always complain about the officials, I have to give him props. The numerous holding penalties on our d-linemen were finally called. The illegal contact and PI calls were called correctly and evenly. I even liked the back-to-back taunting calls early on, which set the tone that they weren't going to let the players pull those stunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Actually, this is a plausible defense. I have got to say that while I disagreed with this call, I thought Jerome Bolger overall called a heck of a game. Maybe the best game of the year for us. As much as I always complain about the officials, I have to give him props. The numerous holding penalties on our d-linemen were finally called. The illegal contact and PI calls were called correctly and evenly. I even liked the back-to-back taunting calls early on, which set the tone that they weren't going to let the players pull those stunts. WOW!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I guess we can tack this one on to the "NFL is rigged" thread as this was a highly questionable call that reversed the one on the field, which is unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I guess we can tack this one on to the "NFL is rigged" thread as this was a highly questionable call that reversed the one on the field, which is unusual. Maybe not rigged but massaged. I do think Dean Blandino is lying through his teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 What I would like to see going forward: whenever a Buffalo QB is in the midst of a sack, just have him rooster his arm back and hit the defensive player on the crown of the helmet with the football. Incomplete pass every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I have the Bills defense on my fantasy team, and my regular season ended this week. If the fumble stood yesterday, I would have picked up two points for a fumble, plus the six for a TD. I sit seven points out of the first spot in my league standings after tonight and miss out on the cash bonus for the regular season champion. Ack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Maybe the answer is to do what hockey does and have reviews for all games done by the NFL at a central location. Take it out of the one guys hands altogether. While not 100% centralized, the NFL already does something pretty similar. All replays come from a centralized location in NY. What replay view is shown to the on the field official is decided by the guys in NY. "Replay Central in New York will not only cue up the right replays for the refs to see. Blandino and Riveron will be able to tell the refs when a replay is obvious—either right or wrong—and so when the ref gets under the hood he won’t have to waste time looking at every angle of an obvious call." http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/01/nfl-instant-replay-review-changes-mailbag/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I didn't see it, but it sounds like yet another example of officiating ruining the game. Luckily it didn't matter here, but in a close game that call could have determined the winner. In today's NFL you either blow the opponent out or the game usually comes down to whoever won the referee's coin toss. And the favorites usually win that toss. And the Bills aren't often favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 So, let's break it down. What is the definition in the game of football of "a pass" and/or "a forward pass". I'm not going to bother looking it up, but I'd love to see the NFL rule book's definition of pass. I can't imagine there's anything in the rule book that describes what we saw yesterday as a pass. You should have. At least you would have some understanding of what the hell you talking about before you started this thread. Rule 8, Section 1, Page 39 "When a player is in control of the ball and is attempting to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his hand starts a forward pass. (a) If the passer is attempting to throw a forward pass, but contact by an opponent materially affects him, causing the ball to go backward, it is a forward pass, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else." That right there pretty much sums it up. It's the same thing Dean Blandino said in his explanation of the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Rule 3, Section 22, Article 4, Item 2 reads: "If the player loses possession of the ball during an attempt to bring it back toward his body, or if the player loses possession after he has tucked the ball into his body, it is a fumble." The rule says during "an attempt" to bring it back OR after it has been tucked away, yet Blandino said the QB has to complete the tuck completely, 100%. So, he completely misquotes the rule. ESPN's Kevin Siefert says: "In this case, we can interpret Manziel's intent while noting that his action didn't meet the threshold for a tuck. Williams didn't give him the chance. Even though Manziel likely was trying to tuck the ball, he didn't officially start that process." So, now we are interpreting player's intent? The threshold for a tuck, really? The rule says the threshold is "an attempt," Blandino says it's "completing the tuck move 100%," and the ESPN guy doesn't specify what that threshold is. But he intimates that Manziel's arm never left the forward throwing motion. Then he admits Manziel was probably trying to tuck (isn't that an attempt according to the rule?). I mean, how can you guess his intent if there is no outward sign of intent, if he "didn't officially start that process," as stated. I guess somewhere between 'not starting the process' and 'showing intent of starting the process' lies this magical "threshold for a Tuck." These guys are bald-face lying for the league...and they even give you a choice between two (albeit contradictory) lies for why the call was reversed. Take your pick. I also noted that on the videos dealing with this call (on NFL.com et al), they only show angles of the play where it is harder to see what happens. They avoid showing the angle where you can clearly see his arm coming back (which everyone who watched the game live saw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 NFL officiating is a complete and utter joke. Every year is the same. This year even more so. Countless bs PI call (or lack thereof). Phantom false starts, numerous, unexplained unsportsmanlike conduct calls. How many times has Mario been blatantly held without a flag? And how much do these fools even get paid? They should be fined every time they screw up. At least they'd be held somewhat accountable for the sh@tty job they've done. It would be awesome if someone with the nfl rewind did a montage of all the crappy calls from this year. Officials are a true travesty to the sport. There's got to be a better way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I hated the call, and I hated it more because my fantasy football team missed the playoffs over the Bills D losing those points, but the more I have seen and heard, the more I think it is unfortunately the correct call. He really wanted to tuck, and pull the ball down, no question about it, and he continued in that motion after he had lost the ball, making it feel more like a fumble. BUT the ball is still going forward when Kyle gets there and hits it, and the tucking motion is after the ball has already been impacted and he has lost control of it. Kyle was just a tenth of a second too quick and awesome for this one to break in our favor, but at least we got the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 BUT the ball is still going forward when Kyle gets there and hits it, and the tucking motion is after the ball has already been impacted and he has lost control of it. Kyle was just a tenth of a second too quick and awesome for this one to break in our favor, but at least we got the game. Looking at the replay views in the Blandinos explanation, at about 2:10 and then again 2:30 marks, you can clearly see that happening. Whether we Bills fans like or not, it does appear the correct call was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Just start pump faking at the snap. That way you'll never take a sack. Looking at the replay views in the Blandinos explanation, at about 2:10 and then again 2:30 marks, you can clearly see that happening. Whether we Bills fans like or not, it does appear the correct call was made. same thing happened to us this year. Kyle even threw the ball forward a few yards, still ruled a fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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