PolishDave Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 That's certainly an option. To keep playing EJ. I'd argue that EJ is developing more by sitting and observing than getting thrown to the wolves week in and week out. As it stands now, Orton (IMO) is the best we've got by a mile and we ride it out. I strongly agree. The best quarterback play we have seen out of EJ has been over the last 4 weeks or so. He hasn't lost us a game in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 That's certainly an option. To keep playing EJ. I'd argue that EJ is developing more by sitting and observing than getting thrown to the wolves week in and week out. As it stands now, Orton (IMO) is the best we've got by a mile and we ride it out. When you put it that way, it makes sense, but will our record at the end of the season be that much different? I dont think it will whether we start KO or EJ. So thats my point. Start the kid and end up 7-9 or start Orton and be 8-8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Bryce Brown's fumble was this game, anything else is a time filler for WGR I suggest you shut the damn thing off if Sals in they have 1 guy who knows football all day, if Sals not working tomorrow they have none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I strongly agree. The best quarterback play we have seen out of EJ has been over the last 4 weeks or so. He hasn't lost us a game in a while. Haha. It's a crappy situation. Buffalo should be 7-2 or 6-3 at worst. Now we've got a huge hill to climb. It sucks. But EJ all but guarantees we crap out and go 6-10 again. With Orton we at least have a chance (albeit a small one) to make the playoffs. Whatever happens, I think it's an open competition in the offseason and may the best QB win. Hopefully we bring in another QB to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Now remembering why I left the message board. Way to nuts with people blaming the wrong people for losses. Let's face it... it was simple. A bad gamble, a fumble in the end zone and McKelvin turnover. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Haha. It's a crappy situation. Buffalo should be 7-2 or 6-3 at worst. Now we've got a huge hill to climb. It sucks. But EJ all but guarantees we crap out and go 6-10 again. With Orton we at least have a chance (albeit a small one) to make the playoffs. Whatever happens, I think it's an open competition in the offseason and may the best QB win. Hopefully we bring in another QB to compete. Question why you say that Orton gives them a better chance to win. How many points per game were the Bills averaging eith Manuel playing vs their points per game under Orton? Take out the Jets' implosion and it is pretty darned close - 12 game starter vs 9 year vet. How foolish does WGR's discussion about giving Orton an extension look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Question why you say that Orton gives them a better chance to win. How many points per game were the Bills averaging eith Manuel playing vs their points per game under Orton? Take out the Jets' implosion and it is pretty darned close - 12 game starter vs 9 year vet. How foolish does WGR's discussion about giving Orton an extension look? First, you can't take out games to make an argument. It is what it is. Second, EJ just doesn't get it yet. Not to say he won't, but the kid doesn't grasp the NFL game yet. I hope he learns, but Kyle sees the field, can make pre snap reads, and can make throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 First, you can't take out games to make an argument. It is what it is. Second, EJ just doesn't get it yet. Not to say he won't, but the kid doesn't grasp the NFL game yet. I hope he learns, but Kyle sees the field, can make pre snap reads, and can make throws. ...and score 13 points at home in a must-win game. ...and score 17 lousy points at home against a weak Minnesota team. Let's not pretend that they were t extremely lucky to beat Detroit and VERY lucky to pull out a win Vs Minn. in both cases, the defense won the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Did anyone think Orton was really gonna take us anywhere? And theres a thread for this b/c he missed the throws. Now that "experiment"was a real fun couple of weeks but can we please get back to the kids development now? Unfortunately, many thought Orton was good. He's a mediocre journeyman. A decent back up. This team is NOT going to the playoffs. EJ might not be the answer but we need to get a longer look to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 ...and score 13 points at home in a must-win game. ...and score 17 lousy points at home against a weak Minnesota team. Let's not pretend that they were t extremely lucky to beat Detroit and VERY lucky to pull out a win Vs Minn. in both cases, the defense won the game Again, not saying he's the second coming of Joe Montana. He's just the best we've got. Unfortunately, many thought Orton was good. He's a mediocre journeyman. A decent back up. This team is NOT going to the playoffs. EJ might not be the answer but we need to get a longer look to know for sure. He's decent. In the NFL this is what a decent QB does. Gives you good games and a few bad ones. Most QBs in the league are like this. Many have won superbowls. Eli, Alex Smith, Flacco, Cutler, Palmer, Dalton. All decent. Some good games, some bad ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Kyle Orton: "They Took Advantage of Opportunities" (3:11) The Bills quarterback talks about struggling in the red zone, the strong play by the Chiefs defense, and still being confident til the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 When you put it that way, it makes sense, but will our record at the end of the season be that much different? I dont think it will whether we start KO or EJ. So thats my point. Start the kid and end up 7-9 or start Orton and be 8-8? If EJ isn't throwing the ball accurately in practice--and by all accounts he hasn't been, at last as of a few weeks ago--what do you hope to discover by playing him in games? It's not as though he's going to start lighting things up when it matters if he can't get it done in practice. On the other hand, maybe you'd like to see him out there in hopes of accelerating his development. My counterexample to that is Carson Palmer. When Palmer was a rookie, Marvin Lewis decided to make him the third string quarterback. Jon Kitna--a reasonably good veteran QB--was the starter. At the beginning of his rookie year, Palmer made lots of inaccurate throws in practice. As the year progressed, he became steadily better. By the end of his rookie year, he was starting to show serious signs of being better than Kitna. EJ Manuel has been given every opportunity Palmer had as a rookie. In addition, he's also been given the opportunities that come with being the starter for training camp and the offseason--for two years running. The Bills gain nothing by showering him with yet more snaps not earned by his college play or NFL play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 All I can say is this: lose to Miami, and you really might as well go back to EJ. It'll be over for 2014, and EJ still has youth on his side. That's how devastating this loss was to our playoff chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Funny. Orton has a sub-par game where he plays almost as bad as EJ does when he's on his game and the salty breath EJ fanboys are out in full force. EJ sucks unless he uses his legs. Deal with it, fanboys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Kyle Orton's worst game this year was better than EJ's best. Staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 All I can say is this: lose to Miami, and you really might as well go back to EJ. It'll be over for 2014, and EJ still has youth on his side. That's how devastating this loss was to our playoff chances. I knew EJ had to sit after the Texans game, but that said I also know Orton is not any kind of real solution -- his lack of mobility is just too great a weakness. IMO he's the most immobile QB in the league. I wouldn't mind seeing EJ come back and see what he has after being able to sit and watch. This offense is still not scoring enough points, and red zone is atrocious. I dont see that theres much to lose giving him another chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlamnSam Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton might not be an answer, but with that being said manuel will never be the answer. He had more chances to perform than any bust that ever hit the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsintaiwan Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Brown. McKelvin. The only reasons we lost. Orton was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton might not be an answer, but with that being said manuel will never be the answer. He had more chances to perform than any bust that ever hit the field. You say this in comparison to Orton? Have a look at Orton's first few year's in the league as a starter... His stats werent even as good as Manuel's. Now, to be clear I don't know if Manuel will ever become a good starting QB, but at least he *might*. Orton, on the other hand, is not going to suddenly improve after 9 years in the NFL. I am not suggesting that they bench Orton quite yet, but once this team falls out of playoff contention then unless Manuel has looked horrible in practice, he should get another shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjjr Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Thought Orton played his best football of the season through 3 quarters....the problem was him and the rest of the team played their worst football in the 4th quarter. This offense still can't figure it out in the red zone.....His 4 worst throws in the game came when they needed it most. With that said, not time to pull him yet. They must win in Miami now and if they don't then it might be time for EJ, who may give them the best chance to win anyway in the cold weather down the stretch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Thought Orton played his best football of the season through 3 quarters....the problem was him and the rest of the team played their worst football in the 4th quarter. This offense still can't figure it out in the red zone.....His 4 worst throws in the game came when they needed it most. With that said, not time to pull him yet. They must win in Miami now and if they don't then it might be time for EJ, who may give them the best chance to win anyway in the cold weather down the stretch... Him did? Edited November 10, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just compare the winning QB in Alex Smith 17/29 177 yards NO TD's-NO INT's- He did have a rushing TD, as his OC allows him the read option which opened up the offense to help score points. Smith sacked 6 times!! Then look at Buffalo QB Kyle Orton 29/48 259 yards ONE TD-NO INT's- The Bills ran one 5 WR set, and it went for a completed pass for a first down, and wasn't used again that I saw. Orton sacked only once! Sammy Watkins 10 targets, 4 catches for 27 yards- an off day. -The Bills 22 rushes for 111 yards @ 5.0 yards per carry vs 48 pass attempts. The offense scored only 13 points, and 7 were ripped away from them with the Bryce Brown fumble thru the endzone. Still, 13 points is not enough to win against good teams. This was all addressed in the fire Hackett thread, when the offense laid a big turd against the Jets, and it was the defense along with the 6 turnovers that won that game. The playcalling, run game, and O line looked much improved for the most part. Then the Bills moved the ball very well between the twenties, and then looked like a deer in headlights once in the redzone. This team still can't get a first down by running when they really need to, and mostly they didn't even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just stop. This loss was far from Orton's fault. He played decent, not great and he missed a few throws, but overall, it was the two fumbles that cost this team this game and Orton had nothing to do with those. I also question the play calling on 2nd and 2 from the five yard line. I would have run on 2nd down and then if you don't make it, you can still run on third or use play action. That decision also was a factor in this loss and it had nothing to do with Orton. The Bills gave this one away, but it was not the QB doing the giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlamnSam Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 EJ should be cut after this season. He will never be an NFL QB. Its like using a broken tool in your toolbox, always the same results. The tool slips and you smash your knuckles. Sorry but Manuel is broken, replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Just stop. This loss was far from Orton's fault. He played decent, not great and he missed a few throws, but overall, it was the two fumbles that cost this team this game and Orton had nothing to do with those. I also question the play calling on 2nd and 2 from the five yard line. I would have run on 2nd down and then if you don't make it, you can still run on third or use play action. That decision also was a factor in this loss and it had nothing to do with Orton. The Bills gave this one away, but it was not the QB doing the giving. They scored 13 stinking points. They've averaged 15 points in their last two HOME games. Look, I am not saying it is all Orton's fault, but while they are moving the ball better than earlier this season, they are still not scoring anywhere near enough. No, it isn't all Orton's fault - just as it wasn't all Manuel's fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton is Mediocre as evidenced by his 28th Total QBR ranking. but you can thank Bryce brown, mckelvin and all those early dropped passes by wr's before you get to blaming Orton for this loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton's a nice fill in until the Bills find somebody else who can be the "franchise" QB. Manuel's done. He's proven beyond a doubt that he won't be the franchise QB. It would require a complete turn around in his play for Manuel to be the franchise QB. Orton can keep the seat warm until the Bills find a better option through the draft or FA. The inability of the front office to find a adequate QB could be the demise of Whaley and Marrone with the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Still plenty of guys here on EJ's nuts. It's mind boggling. EJ hasn't played in past 5 games. And the way Orton was misfiring most of the game maybe EJ could have done better. As the weeks go on and the poor play continues the Orton Super Fans have less and less material to support their argument that Orton should be the man. And why did they only score 13pts? You know the answer. Orton had a BAD game coupled with 3 lost fumbles. ZERO TD's in 4 red zone trips. and we can add that Orton is sooooo slow on his feet my dead mother can run faster than him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Losers give up and quit. Just saying. I guess some people can't stomach adversity. I'd hate to be their kids playing little league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 He missed some throws that could have helped win the game but he couldn't make them. Still we could have won the game if Brown hadn't fumbled the ball when he was about to score. ^ This times 5. the poor throws in the red zone. KEEP denying that Orton is blameless in this loss. He even admitted missing a wide open receiver when he stumbled forward to "rush" for a first down!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 EJ hasn't played in past 5 games. And the way Orton was misfiring most of the game maybe EJ could have done better. As the weeks go on and the poor play continues the Orton Super Fans have less and less material to support their argument that Orton should be the man. You know the answer. Orton had a BAD game coupled with 3 lost fumbles. ZERO TD's in 4 red zone trips. and we can add that Orton is sooooo slow on his feet my dead mother can run faster than him! Who threw the TD to Hogan? EJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 One or 2 good opening drives followed by 4 or 5 more of pure crap followed by 1 or 2 more good drives in the second half is what we have seen over the last 5 weeks. That won't cut it! Who threw the TD to Hogan? EJ? who missed the WIDE OPEN HOGAN for a sure TD?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! Orton admitted it himself to the post game media!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No one ever said Orton is the long term answer. He's a stopgap and placeholder and nothing more, which should be obvious. The problem is that the roster spot he's "keeping warm" has been like a cold place in hell for years and half-hearted attempts to fill it (EJ) have done nothing more than prolong the agony. If we can't finally get lucky in the draft, Pegula has to throw big bucks at a quality free agent and convince him that Buffalo is also not a cold place in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 No one ever said Orton is the long term answer. He's a stopgap and placeholder and nothing more, which should be obvious. The problem is that the roster spot he's "keeping warm" has been like a cold place in hell for years and half-hearted attempts to fill it (EJ) have done nothing more than prolong the agony. If we can't finally get lucky in the draft, Pegula has to throw big bucks at a quality free agent and convince him that Buffalo is also not a cold place in hell. Have you been reading all of the posts here? try again, there is a Orton is GOD group here who disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton didn't have a great game, but he is not who lost us that game. I don't know why this is a discussion. Have you been reading all of the posts here? try again, there is a Orton is GOD group here who disagree with you. No, you're just projecting to make yourself look like some sort of martyr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 One or 2 good opening drives followed by 4 or 5 more of pure crap followed by 1 or 2 more good drives in the second half is what we have seen over the last 5 weeks. That won't cut it! who missed the WIDE OPEN HOGAN for a sure TD?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! Orton admitted it himself to the post game media!!! Orton was mediocre yesterday. You are surely correct. However, we could've won with Orton playing mediocre if the rest of the team didn't crap their pants and fumble everywhere (especially since he's been putting the entire offense on his back since he's started). But it's a team loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton did not have a good day. Had he been on his game the Bills would have won the game despite the turnovers, poor play calls etc... After the great opening drive his receivers had a number of drops that could have extended drives. Maybe the law of averages only gives you so many chances against a good D. Maybe he was also (overly) concerned about the Chiefs pass rush and hurried a few throws. Ironic perhaps because the pass pro really was pretty good all things considered. To say that he was not at his best does not mean he was the reason why we lost. The turnovers were more direct contributing causes. If Brown scores on the opening drive of the second half the Chiefs are on the ropes and probably done and very much at risk for being blown out. If Leodis doesn't screw up I strongly suspect the Chiefs wind up with 7 fewer points. Also have to give KC some credit. They are a solid, well coached and well balanced football team. All QBs, even the best, have mediocre games, and even some outright stinkers occasionally. Orton also has good games and big throws in that arm of his. Hopefully Thursday night. As for those calling for EJ, that would not be a step in the right direction IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Orton is what he is. This is what he has always been. A good game manager. If anything, the problem comes down to "can't" Hackett. Two trips into the RedZone, and 7 consecutive passes. The last drive was particularly egregious. Why not run Dixon at least once if it's 4 down territory? Also, having Orton throw out of an empty backfield should NEVER happen. Why signal to a top defensive team that you are going to pass, particularly when the field is shorter in the redzone?!?! Only a very few QB's can operate this way (manning, ben, rodgers, brady.) Terrible job by Hackett. Orton may not be the answer, but "can't" Hackett did not put him in a position to win. Orton was mediocre yesterday. You are surely correct. However, we could've won with Orton playing mediocre if the rest of the team didn't crap their pants and fumble everywhere (especially since he's been putting the entire offense on his back since he's started). But it's a team loss. the fumbles were a huge issue. Why is McKelvin returning punts>? Isn't there a WR or RB (you know, someone who is used to getting hit while carrying the ball) who could do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Losers give up and quit. Just saying. I guess some people can't stomach adversity. I'd hate to be their kids playing little league. no way this team quits. they will not quit. this teams biggest problems are MENTAL mistakes. which starts with coaching. take lee smith as an example. this guy has 5 times more penalties than catches, yet gets prominent minutes. why is this mental midget in game ??? or even on the team for that matter. why aren't players taken out immediately when they fumble because they failed to wrap the ball with both hands. (coaching)no consequences. we are losing because the other team makes fewer mistakes. Teams like New England are not physically better, they just play so much smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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