Should EJ have taken some downs on Sunday?

[BillAndPhilFan]

I fully support the switch to Orton as QB and am glad Marrone had the guts to make the change when he did (so we're not in a mess like the Jets). But Orton's not the long-term answer. Is EJ? How will we know if he's not given the chance to show that he IS learning? It's all very well him practising with the first-choice players and making notes on the sideline, but at some point he has to get out there and take some downs. Why not see what (if?) he's learnt when we're 20 points clear in the 4^th quarter? If not – then when/how will we ever know if he is progressing?

[26CornerBlitz]

Ask this OP: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/172553-i-thought-ej-was-going-to-mop-up/

[Best Player Available]

I fully support the switch to Orton as QB and am glad Marrone had the guts to make the change when he did (so we're not in a mess like the Jets). But Orton's not the long-term answer. Is EJ? How will we know if he's not given the chance to show that he IS learning? It's all very well him practising with the first-choice players and making notes on the sideline, but at some point he has to get out there and take some downs. Why not see what (if?) he's learnt when we're 20 points clear in the 4^th quarter? If not – then when/how will we ever know if he is progressing?

He is not progressing. IN

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

should they have put EJ IN ?

 

with the sack #'s so high on KO, yes he should have been put in

[bobobonators]

should they have put EJ IN ?

 

with the sack #'s so high on KO, yes he should have been put in

 

You can't be serious.

[Jim in Anchorage]

You can't be serious.

Remember EJ-4-evers hate for Orton is the only thought behind his posts.

[bobobonators]

Remember EJ-4-evers hate for Orton is the only thought behind his posts.

 

I know. But it's bordering on the brink of insanity at this point.

 

Kyle Orton 10/17, 238 yards, 4 TDs, 142.9 QB rating.

 

As per yoloinohio:

 

@SportsCenter: Kyle Orton has led Bills to 3-1 record since taking over as starter.

Orton: 1,128 Pass yds, 9 TD, 3 Int http://t.co/5YhS0gCGXR

 

@TBNSully: Watkins has 21 catches for 393 yards in 4 games with Kyle Orton. He had 17 for 197 yards, half as many, in 4 games with EJ Manuel at QB.

 

@TBNSully: After today's game, the Bills' Kyle Orton is averaging exactly 8.0 yards per pass attempt, which would rank fifth in the NFL.

 

 

And he's 7th in completion % in the NFL

Edited October 27, 2014 by bobobonators

[Rob's House]

I reject your premise so I won't even get IN to the merits of your conclusion.

 

 

Edit: I probably should have clarified this is a response to the OP.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Rob's House

[BobbyC81]

Why not see what (if?) he's learnt when we're 20 points clear in the 4^th quarter? If not – then when/how will we ever know if he is progressing?

 

I thought about that too but decided it wasn't worth the risk. I think there were about 5 minutes left and I thought if EJ came in and threw a pick six or fumbled and it was returned and the Jets made a 2 pter, the lead's down to 12. Jets convert an onside kick and score again and the game's up for grabs. Then they'd have to put Orton back in and that would do more harm than good for EJ's confidence

[filthymcnasty08]

Yes yes…then we can all extrapolate EJ's big completion % in mop up duty over a season and compare it to Peyton Manning!

 

Anything for QB controversy here at 2BD. Even when we're faced with scary new frontiers of SUCCESS!!!!

[Orton's Arm]

I fully support the switch to Orton as QB and am glad Marrone had the guts to make the change when he did (so we're not in a mess like the Jets). But Orton's not the long-term answer. Is EJ? How will we know if he's not given the chance to show that he IS learning? It's all very well him practising with the first-choice players and making notes on the sideline, but at some point he has to get out there and take some downs. Why not see what (if?) he's learnt when we're 20 points clear in the 4^th quarter? If not – then when/how will we ever know if he is progressing?

 

> But Orton's not the long-term answer. Is EJ?

 

Of the two, Orton is much more likely to be the long-term answer than EJ. Manuel isn't a more accurate passer than Losman. He isn't better at processing information quickly than Losman. His physical tools are not much different than Losman's. Losman can't make an NFL roster as a backup, let alone provide a team with a long-term answer as a starter. Why will Manuel's career be any different?

 

On the other hand, Orton's pre-draft scouting reports indicated he was good at processing information quickly; and that he had the polish of a ten year vet. He also throws the ball accurately, at least the vast majority of the time. He's only 31. Orton is far more likely to be a late bloomer--in the vein of Rich Gannon--than Manuel is to suddenly become something he is not, and never has been.

 

If Manuel starts throwing the ball very accurately in practice, and does so consistently, then maybe you revisit the above logic. But there's no reason to give him more snaps in games than his performance in practice has earned. The first round pick squandered on him is a sunk cost. The hope invested in him was based on wishful thinking; not on a disciplined, realistic assessment of the strengths and limitations he'd displayed as a college player.

[PromoTheRobot]

I know. But it's bordering on the brink of insanity at this point.

 

Kyle Orton 10/17, 238 yards, 4 TDs, 142.9 QB rating.

 

As per yoloinohio:

 

@SportsCenter: Kyle Orton has led Bills to 3-1 record since taking over as starter.

Orton: 1,128 Pass yds, 9 TD, 3 Int http://t.co/5YhS0gCGXR

 

@TBNSully: Watkins has 21 catches for 393 yards in 4 games with Kyle Orton. He had 17 for 197 yards, half as many, in 4 games with EJ Manuel at QB.

 

@TBNSully: After today's game, the Bills' Kyle Orton is averaging exactly 8.0 yards per pass attempt, which would rank fifth in the NFL.

 

 

And he's 7th in completion % in the NFL

 

Yeah but he's a journeyman who sucks.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I know. But it's bordering on the brink of insanity at this point.

 

INsanity is a great way to put it.

[negativo]

EJ who?

[CardinalScotts]

sorry to focused on winning right now......no he doesn't come in to "take some snaps"

[billsfan89]

The last drive or two of a blowout yeah he should get the snaps. But I guess getting Orton who has only been with the team a couple of months some snaps still has some purpose.

[Luap22]

Ej Manual will be fine. Sitting and observing will help immensely.

 

He's surrounded by veterans, he's a kid among men. An then 80,000 screaming fans.

 

We need to stick with EJ. He may get his chance, he needs to be allowed to scramble, injury prone or not.

 

He needs a complete game of pass or run. Confidence will come

 

Mobility and accuracy will come

 

EJ will be fine

[FireChan]

Remember EJ-4-evers hate for Orton is the only thought behind his posts.

 

He complained about Orton not having a lot of passing yards after spending all last week saying the passing yards meant nothing. I was too blown away to continue arguing.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

NO, I don't ever want to see him play for us again.

[KRT88]

 

 

I know. But it's bordering on the brink of insanity at this point.

 

Kyle Orton 10/17, 238 yards, 4 TDs, 142.9 QB rating.

 

As per yoloinohio:

 

@SportsCenter: Kyle Orton has led Bills to 3-1 record since taking over as starter.

Orton: 1,128 Pass yds, 9 TD, 3 Int http://t.co/5YhS0gCGXR

 

@TBNSully: Watkins has 21 catches for 393 yards in 4 games with Kyle Orton. He had 17 for 197 yards, half as many, in 4 games with EJ Manuel at QB.

 

@TBNSully: After today's game, the Bills' Kyle Orton is averaging exactly 8.0 yards per pass attempt, which would rank fifth in the NFL.

 

 

And he's 7th in completion % in the NFL

 

The guy has a 104 QB rating and we want to get EJ some snaps? EJ needs to watch and learn and see what making quick, accurate decisions does for a passing game.

[fansince88]

EJ not coming IN at mop up time, not your words but yes there is a post that suggests that is a sign. Lock up Kyle long term and drafting QBs. I would be supposed if EJ makes it past next years preseason.

[Ted William's frozen head]

That ship has sailed......

[Doc]

Like I said in the other thread, you give Orton every snap to make up for the lack of an off-season and preseason with the Bills. They have decided to go with him and he has the hot hand, and he should play exclusively unless/until they're out of the playoff race.

[thronethinker]

Has EJ earned the right to go in? Why is Orton not the long term answer right now? What is long term? In a league where players stay on a team less than 5 years I want to know what long term is. Orton is winning.

[ALLEN1QB]

To do what hand off? I think you and I could do that. If Orton was not allowed to pass they sure as hell wouldn't let EJ

[machine gun kelly]

 

 

> But Orton's not the long-term answer. Is EJ?

 

Of the two, Orton is much more likely to be the long-term answer than EJ. Manuel isn't a more accurate passer than Losman. He isn't better at processing information quickly than Losman. His physical tools are not much different than Losman's. Losman can't make an NFL roster as a backup, let alone provide a team with a long-term answer as a starter. Why will Manuel's career be any different?

 

On the other hand, Orton's pre-draft scouting reports indicated he was good at processing information quickly; and that he had the polish of a ten year vet. He also throws the ball accurately, at least the vast majority of the time. He's only 31. Orton is far more likely to be a late bloomer--in the vein of Rich Gannon--than Manuel is to suddenly become something he is not, and never has been.

 

If Manuel starts throwing the ball very accurately in practice, and does so consistently, then maybe you revisit the above logic. But there's no reason to give him more snaps in games than his performance in practice has earned. The first round pick squandered on him is a sunk cost. The hope invested in him was based on wishful thinking; not on a disciplined, realistic assessment of the strengths and limitations he'd displayed as a college player.

 

Well written. EJ has shown he will not progress. I don't care where he was drafted. He had enough time to just improve and did not. He's a nice kid, and tries hard, but is now relegated to a back up. On the other hand, Orton who is only 31, can easily play for another 5 years with the new rules against hitting the QB.

 

Orton has finally found a team that wants to give him a chance. He has an excellent defense, we will get our running game, and some serious weapons. With more time, Orton is only going to get better with more rhythm with his WR. We get Kiko back next year, god I hope we resign our core players like Hughes, and we can take our time over the next couple of years finding a QB in the draft. I can't believe we finally found a QB who makes good decisions.

 

So what if the media doesn't like Orton! Or thinks he is a back up. I love it. Keep us under the radar. A month from now we could end up 9-3 going out to Denver. I din't see us beating the Broncos, but at some point people will notice the Bills. I hope it's later vs. sooner.

[filthymcnasty08]

Orton is to us what Kurt Warner was to AZ

EJ is to us what Matt Leinart was to AZ

 

that is all