The Dougs' Accountability Thread

[BillsVet]

The personnel and coaching decisions going back to 2013 (when Whaley took over) make little, if any sense. And for the record, I recognize he wasn't the official GM until May 2013, but Buddy was being eased out of the decision making process during the 2013 off-season.

 

They're staring at busts with their 2013 1st round QB and perhaps the 2014 2nd round pick OT who doesn't dress. They just IR'd (for a back problem) their first UFA signing in 2014, who has a history of back injuries. They failed to adequately replace Levitre in 2013, doing so with castoffs who hurt the team. This year, they're starting 2 rookies on the OL and a displaced RT at RG who flat out stinks. They never tried to acquire a proven veteran QB until the final week of their 2nd pre-season. That led to lost games in 2013 when they started a rookie UDFA and a journeyman QB (on 4 teams in 4 years and now out of the NFL). They got what looks like an outstanding WR in the 2014 draft, but not before selling off their top pick in 2015 to do it when they weren't 1 player away with a QB who has major accuracy issues.

 

As for the coaching staff, the rookie HC in 2013 proceeded to hire several SU cronies, notably the OC who had never served as a position coach in the NFL. And last year the rookie OC was charged with being QB coach to a raw rookie as well. This worked so well that they finally broke down and hired a QB coach and an offensive assistant (who previously had failed as OC in SF) in 2014.

 

Whaley owns this now and I hope Accorsi or Wolf advocate for massive changes at OBD that are accepted. Either Whaley gets overruled frequently, or his acumen isn't as high as some would like to believe.

[bowery4]

The personnel and coaching decisions going back to 2013 (when Whaley took over) make little, if any sense. And for the record, I recognize he wasn't the official GM until May 2013, but Buddy was being eased out of the decision making process during the 2013 off-season.

 

They're staring at busts with their 2013 1st round QB and perhaps the 2014 2nd round pick OT who doesn't dress. They just IR'd (for a back problem) their first UFA signing in 2014, who has a history of back injuries. They failed to adequately replace Levitre in 2013, doing so with castoffs who hurt the team. This year, they're starting 2 rookies on the OL and a displaced RT at RG who flat out stinks. They never tried to acquire a proven veteran QB until the final week of their 2nd pre-season. That led to lost games in 2013 when they started a rookie UDFA and a journeyman QB (on 4 teams in 4 years and now out of the NFL). They got what looks like an outstanding WR in the 2014 draft, but not before selling off their top pick in 2015 to do it when they weren't 1 player away with a QB who has major accuracy issues.

 

As for the coaching staff, the rookie HC in 2013 proceeded to hire several SU cronies, notably the OC who had never served as a position coach in the NFL. And last year the rookie OC was charged with being QB coach to a raw rookie as well. This worked so well that they finally broke down and hired a QB coach and an offensive assistant (who previously had failed as OC in SF) in 2014.

 

Whaley owns this now and I hope Accorsi or Wolf advocate for massive changes at OBD that are accepted. Either Whaley gets overruled frequently, or his acumen isn't as high as some would like to believe.

That is all pretty fair but that doesn't really include ALL of the coaching. We have good and some great core players, when you have that and things don't get done and the loses pile up, it's coaching.

There was a lot to overcome in this game, ourselves, the Pats* and the refs. Sadly I think Marrone just doesn't have "it". And Swartz dialed up an awful no blitz package.

The refs had a effect on the out come of the game... refs should really never have that. There are such things as switches in momentum and it gets in players heads when they get bad calls. I agree our coaching has totally underwhelming. Our Oline looks very bad and the game plans are WTF? At times today I felt I was watching a Jaroun offense with a Wanny D. That is bad and that is sad, never going to get by NE* with that.

[mannc]

The personnel and coaching decisions going back to 2013 (when Whaley took over) make little, if any sense. And for the record, I recognize he wasn't the official GM until May 2013, but Buddy was being eased out of the decision making process during the 2013 off-season.

 

They're staring at busts with their 2013 1st round QB and perhaps the 2014 2nd round pick OT who doesn't dress. They just IR'd (for a back problem) their first UFA signing in 2014, who has a history of back injuries. They failed to adequately replace Levitre in 2013, doing so with castoffs who hurt the team. This year, they're starting 2 rookies on the OL and a displaced RT at RG who flat out stinks. They never tried to acquire a proven veteran QB until the final week of their 2nd pre-season. That led to lost games in 2013 when they started a rookie UDFA and a journeyman QB (on 4 teams in 4 years and now out of the NFL). They got what looks like an outstanding WR in the 2014 draft, but not before selling off their top pick in 2015 to do it when they weren't 1 player away with a QB who has major accuracy issues.

 

As for the coaching staff, the rookie HC in 2013 proceeded to hire several SU cronies, notably the OC who had never served as a position coach in the NFL. And last year the rookie OC was charged with being QB coach to a raw rookie as well. This worked so well that they finally broke down and hired a QB coach and an offensive assistant (who previously had failed as OC in SF) in 2014.

 

Whaley owns this now and I hope Accorsi or Wolf advocate for massive changes at OBD that are accepted. Either Whaley gets overruled frequently, or his acumen isn't as high as some would like to believe.

This is a pretty damning bill of particulars. The bottom line, for me, is that I don't want the same crew who picked EJ, and has horribly mismanaged the QB situation, selecting the next "QB of the future" for this franchise. They have demonstrated a complete inability to evaluate and prioritize the position. Edited October 13, 2014 by mannc

[Reed83HOF]

The personnel and coaching decisions going back to 2013 (when Whaley took over) make little, if any sense. And for the record, I recognize he wasn't the official GM until May 2013, but Buddy was being eased out of the decision making process during the 2013 off-season.

 

They're staring at busts with their 2013 1st round QB and perhaps the 2014 2nd round pick OT who doesn't dress. They just IR'd (for a back problem) their first UFA signing in 2014, who has a history of back injuries. They failed to adequately replace Levitre in 2013, doing so with castoffs who hurt the team. This year, they're starting 2 rookies on the OL and a displaced RT at RG who flat out stinks. They never tried to acquire a proven veteran QB until the final week of their 2nd pre-season. That led to lost games in 2013 when they started a rookie UDFA and a journeyman QB (on 4 teams in 4 years and now out of the NFL). They got what looks like an outstanding WR in the 2014 draft, but not before selling off their top pick in 2015 to do it when they weren't 1 player away with a QB who has major accuracy issues.

 

As for the coaching staff, the rookie HC in 2013 proceeded to hire several SU cronies, notably the OC who had never served as a position coach in the NFL. And last year the rookie OC was charged with being QB coach to a raw rookie as well. This worked so well that they finally broke down and hired a QB coach and an offensive assistant (who previously had failed as OC in SF) in 2014.

 

Whaley owns this now and I hope Accorsi or Wolf advocate for massive changes at OBD that are accepted. Either Whaley gets overruled frequently, or his acumen isn't as high as some would like to believe.

 

sigh

 

Truth hurts

[MClark]

My problem with DW is that this has clearly become a QB driven league that he has failed to recognize. Take QB out of situation and we are much better than Pats. However, this game is made for high scoring and QB play is paramount. He has whiffed badly in this regard. We should be drafting QB's and bringing in competent vets until we find one. Trading for WR when you haven't solidified QB is a huge mistake. He has built a much better team but QB mistake will cost him his job.

[thewildrabbit]

When you consider the talent on this team and how its being wasted... the GM & HC both need to be held accountable.

 

Fredex & CJ are very talented RB's, and should be among league leaders in rushing every year. This year the OC isn't even trying to run very much, as 20+ rushes vs 40+ the last three games show. This is with a 2nd year QB who hasn't even played a full 16 games, and a vet QB who has started all of 3 games his last three years. It makes no sense to say the line can't run block and then just give up on it like this OC has.

 

One example, a toss sweep. Now I see hand off sweeps that take a long time to develop, and the opposing defense gets to the RB before he gets to the line. Not enough miss direction plays of any nature, and the use of slow developing run plays.

 

I swear, If i ever see Hackett call a shotgun draw play to Spiller up the middle with the formations he is using... I'll lose it. Gailey made that work by being in 4-5 WR spread sets, and the defenders were forced to choose between covering the WR's or RB's. Gailey exploited that, and Hackett hasn't caught on that it doesn't work with the line bunched up. I honestly don't know what they can be doing in the film room after watching the game tapes, and then coming out and trying the exact same thing that hasn't worked.

 

 

Then you have a WR this team gave up a 1st round pick for this year, and a 1st & 4th round pick in 2015 for, and the OC calls his name only 3x all game? really 3 times? Then he did catch 2 passes for 27 yards, and if you extrapolate that out to 10 to 15 touches its a lot of yards. What made Sammy Watkins was all those screen plays in college, and yet where are they all at this level? Why not try end around's, reverses, fake reverses. Get Sammy more involved!!

 

Instead of letting the few really good play makers on the offense become more involved in the scheme by running and utilizing those players more often against teams with bad rush defenses. This Bills OC would rather let the raw & rusty QB's throw 40 times a game against teams with good pass defenses.

 

It all makes no sense to me.

[GG]

Let's add the Mike Williams and Stevie trades to the discussion.

 

Stevie is one of the few people who gets the better of Revis, and Williams was a known headcase. Both cost the same in terms of cap room. It was a puzzling move at the time, and more so now.

 

And let's not ignore the unceremonious termination of Ike Hilliard.

[Mr. WEO]

The personnel and coaching decisions going back to 2013 (when Whaley took over) make little, if any sense. And for the record, I recognize he wasn't the official GM until May 2013, but Buddy was being eased out of the decision making process during the 2013 off-season.

 

They're staring at busts with their 2013 1st round QB and perhaps the 2014 2nd round pick OT who doesn't dress. They just IR'd (for a back problem) their first UFA signing in 2014, who has a history of back injuries. They failed to adequately replace Levitre in 2013, doing so with castoffs who hurt the team. This year, they're starting 2 rookies on the OL and a displaced RT at RG who flat out stinks. They never tried to acquire a proven veteran QB until the final week of their 2nd pre-season. That led to lost games in 2013 when they started a rookie UDFA and a journeyman QB (on 4 teams in 4 years and now out of the NFL). They got what looks like an outstanding WR in the 2014 draft, but not before selling off their top pick in 2015 to do it when they weren't 1 player away with a QB who has major accuracy issues.

 

As for the coaching staff, the rookie HC in 2013 proceeded to hire several SU cronies, notably the OC who had never served as a position coach in the NFL. And last year the rookie OC was charged with being QB coach to a raw rookie as well. This worked so well that they finally broke down and hired a QB coach and an offensive assistant (who previously had failed as OC in SF) in 2014.

 

Whaley owns this now and I hope Accorsi or Wolf advocate for massive changes at OBD that are accepted. Either Whaley gets overruled frequently, or his acumen isn't as high as some would like to believe.

 

Excellent post.

 

I think it's reasonable to go back and assess exactly what Whaley, given his age and true experience, did to earn the GM job.

 

 

Let's add the Mike Williams and Stevie trades to the discussion.

 

Stevie is one of the few people who gets the better of Revis, and Williams was a known headcase. Both cost the same in terms of cap room. It was a puzzling move at the time, and more so now.

 

And let's not ignore the unceremonious termination of Ike Hilliard.

 

I agree with this. The "philospohical differences" excuse for firing a guy you just vetted and selected a year prior always sounded like BS. I bet Ike called out Hackett and Marrone dumped him.

 

Amateur hour....

Edited October 13, 2014 by Mr. WEO

[BillsVet]

Let's add the Mike Williams and Stevie trades to the discussion.

 

Stevie is one of the few people who gets the better of Revis, and Williams was a known headcase. Both cost the same in terms of cap room. It was a puzzling move at the time, and more so now.

 

And let's not ignore the unceremonious termination of Ike Hilliard.

 

Or the fact that they fired LB coach Chuck Driesbach, only for him to be hired shortly after by Cleveland. One gets the impression there were disagreements between Pettine and Marrone with moves like this.

 

Excellent post.

 

I think it's reasonable to go back and assess exactly what Whaley, given his age and true experience, did to earn the GM job.

 

He was adept at toeing the company line and going along with whatever Brandon and Overdorf wanted. That loyalty and bad decision making at QB and on draft day may well cost him his job after 2014, save for a playoff appearance and probably a win.

[RyanC883]

My problem with DW is that this has clearly become a QB driven league that he has failed to recognize. Take QB out of situation and we are much better than Pats. However, this game is made for high scoring and QB play is paramount. He has whiffed badly in this regard. We should be drafting QB's and bringing in competent vets until we find one. Trading for WR when you haven't solidified QB is a huge mistake. He has built a much better team but QB mistake will cost him his job.

 

perhaps Pegula's consultant is going to be a QB consultant. I think Whaley has done a good job overall, but like you said, minus the most important position. Can't overlook getting Spikes and Rivers and Hughes.

[finn]

perhaps Pegula's consultant is going to be a QB consultant. I think Whaley has done a good job overall, but like you said, minus the most important position. Can't overlook getting Spikes and Rivers and Hughes.

 

Whaley admits the Hughes trade fell into his lap and said it was a no-brainer. So give him credit for not not having a brain but I wouldn't go further than that. As for the Rivers pickup, it's a lot like the Chris Williams signing: a top draft pick who has under-performed for his career. So we sign both and get...mediocre vets. They may not be awful, but they're not very good, either. I do give him credit for the Graham signing, which was astute, and the Williams pickup, but not so much for Spikes, who is an uneven player. Meanwhile, as others have pointed out, he has left yawning holes at guard.

 

On the whole, I would give Whaley an average (which is to say mediocre) grade if it wasn't for the Manuel pick and the Watkins trade. Both reek of recklessness and haste. Two first round draft picks wasted, and this by a franchise that hasn't been in the playoffs in 14 years.

[26CornerBlitz]

How are they doing?

[PromoTheRobot]

How are they doing?

Just awful. We didn't beat the Jets by 100.

[GG]

How are they doing?

 

Thanks for bumping this up. Check out the Hackett & Marrone threads. Not all is swell in Oz despite the record.

[bananathumb]

Not as good as the Bills.

[papazoid]

Russ - 100% he stays for all of 2015

 

Whaley - 100% he stays for all of 2015

 

Marrone - 75% he's around for 2015. his risk is putting his job on the line for Hackett who deservedly will be replaced.

[DrDawkinstein]

Thanks for bumping this up. Check out the Hackett & Marrone threads. Not all is swell in Oz despite the record.

 

Yes, the munchkins are restless and demanding change. Luckily, no one cares what they have to say.

[GunnerBill]

So Buddy was a useless GM and Doug is a useless GM and yet we have this talented roster in so many positions......

[26CornerBlitz]

Yes, the munchkins are restless and demanding change. Luckily, no one cares what they have to say.

 

Which Doug do you trust?

[Alaska Darin]

This is a pretty damning bill of particulars. The bottom line, for me, is that I don't want the same crew who picked EJ, and has horribly mismanaged the QB situation, selecting the next "QB of the future" for this franchise. They have demonstrated a complete inability to evaluate and prioritize the position.

Which is pretty much every organization in the NFL. QB selection has always been more about luck than anything.

[Coach Tuesday]

Which is pretty much every organization in the NFL. QB selection has always been more about luck than anything.

 

If that's the case, then logic dictates that you increase the # of chances. So they're rightly criticized for not doing that.

[Alaska Darin]

If that's the case, then logic dictates that you increase the # of chances. So they're rightly criticized for not doing that.

Not arguing that at all.

[DrDawkinstein]

Which Doug do you trust?

 

Both!

[Augie]

 

 

Both!

But Whaley more.

[DrDawkinstein]

But Whaley more.

 

Ha! I almost edited my post to add that.

[26CornerBlitz]

Marrone didn't shine today with in-game decisions.

[Sojourner]

Did Douglas state in the post-game presser where the game was obviously lost?

[GG]

Here we are again.

 

Is the fat lady prepping her vocal cords?

[26CornerBlitz]

Why Doug Whaley Should Stay as Buffalo Bills GM

The past two weeks of the Buffalo Bills season have been nothing short of an utter disappointment. Like Dumb and Dumber 2 promises to do, they have once again managed to ruin a good thing. Once. Again. Two weeks ago this time the Bills were 5-3. Two weeks ago there were playoff scenarios and important December games drifting through fans’ heads. Two weeks ago this team was finally escaping from the clutches of mediocrity. Two weeks ago.