Just so that people understand....regarding batted passes

[GG]

Sammy also allowed himself to get pinned by the sideline on that go route. Gotta bring that in a couple yards as you're not giving the QB any room for error.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I keep reading this, and heard Billick criticize Sammy for it, but I have no idea what it means. I've looked at that play several times, and Sammy starts inside the yard numbers, gets a slight push from the CB and keeps the route along the sideline. The ball landed exactly one foot beyond his route, but the ball was placed at the exact trajectory of Sammy's run. It's not like the ball landed a couple of more feet inside the field, it was right in Sammy's path. Then when I look at the route itself, I don't see any wasted real estate. To me, it's just a misfire on the timing between the QB and the WR. I don't see what else Sammy could have done to "help out his QB"

[johnwalter]

to my eyes, two were at the L.O.S. and not EJ's fault and one (the pass to Sammy in the redone, batted by an LB well behind the L.O.S.) was on EJ. combine that with the fact that the endzone pass to MW should have been caught (see the photo), and you get that EJ went 3/5, for 42 yards and 1 TD (instead of his actual 2/7 for 19 yards and 0 TDs).

 

that being said - it seems a little early to be making excuses for EJ. he needs to be good enough that we don't have to.

 

[ MW picture: here ]

Edited August 4, 2014 by johnwalter

[John from Riverside]

I keep reading this, and heard Billick criticize Sammy for it, but I have no idea what it means. I've looked at that play several times, and Sammy starts inside the yard numbers, gets a slight push from the CB and keeps the route along the sideline. The ball landed exactly one foot beyond his route, but the ball was placed at the exact trajectory of Sammy's run. It's not like the ball landed a couple of more feet inside the field, it was right in Sammy's path. Then when I look at the route itself, I don't see any wasted real estate. To me, it's just a misfire on the timing between the QB and the WR. I don't see what else Sammy could have done to "help out his QB"

 

You cant run out of bounds then come back in and catch the ball......he got a shove from the corner but not enough to warrant Sammy running out of bounds...theefore he was pinned against a defender and the sideline (which is basically a additional defender)

 

The ball was not thrown out of bounds.....as a matter of fact given that CJ got blown up and EJ had to throw that ball at the time he did I thought the ball was almost perfectly placed......

[GG]

You cant run out of bounds then come back in and catch the ball......he got a shove from the corner but not enough to warrant Sammy running out of bounds...theefore he was pinned against a defender and the sideline (which is basically a additional defender)

 

The ball was not thrown out of bounds.....as a matter of fact given that CJ got blown up and EJ had to throw that ball at the time he did I thought the ball was almost perfectly placed......

 

Again, I fail to see where he was pinned against the sideline. There was plenty of room for him to run on the side, and the ball landed precisely in his running path.

[C.Biscuit97]

You tried to make this point 6 times last might. Completely unconvincing.

 

And he was right 6 times. Day one of offensive linemen school: defensive linemen puts his hands up, take their feet out.

 

But I'm assuming you didn't play football at any level. You strike me more as a debate guy.

 

some bills fans won't be happy until we draft the next Peyton Manning or Brady and they perform like them from game #1

 

Batted balls are a concern, but overall EJ threw some nice passes that were just out of reach of DB's and the WR's did have chances to make the catch

 

It's silly isn't it? I have no idea how good EJ will be but it's kinda sickening how some fans have no patience. QB might be the hardest position in all of sports. It's takes time.

 

Thankfully, I think EJ is a lot more mature than some of the fans who freak out after every pass.

[1B4IDie]

To be fair.

 

EJ is clearly staring down his receivers.

It seemed like the D-Line was purposely backing down to bat passes. jPP was no where near the pocket on the play he batted down the pass.

 

BUT IF Mike Williams catches that TD pass he dropped. EJ'a performance looks much better.

 

So like everything with EJ 1 step forward 1 step back and lots of uncertainty.

[Homey D. Clown]

People do realize that most of the time (not always but most) that batted down passes are on the O line and not the QB?

 

 

 

Wrong.

 

EJ stared down all of his receivers, so badly, that if you go and look at his last batted pass, the defender dropped away from his rush and was able to get his hands up to knock EJs pass down. He actually just stopped rushing on the play it was that bad. The offensive lineman(not sure who it was) almost fell forward a little... what should he have done? it's not football 101 in any way, in fact, it's called holding. Further evidence of EJs inability to look anyone off was his near INT. It was so bad that the linebacker didn't even have to watch the route. Sorry pal, EJs flaws are entirely his own, and 100% due to his play.

[Dorkington]

to my eyes, two were at the L.O.S. and not EJ's fault and one (the pass to Sammy in the redone, batted by an LB well behind the L.O.S.) was on EJ. combine that with the fact that the endzone pass to MW should have been caught (see the photo), and you get that EJ went 3/5, for 42 yards and 1 TD (instead of his actual 2/7 for 19 yards and 0 TDs).

 

that being said - it seems a little early to be making excuses for EJ. he needs to be good enough that we don't have to.

 

[ MW picture: here ]

 

Also important to note the defender pulling down Mike's right arm on the play. A lot of times that's called PI.

[NoSaint]

Whenever our defensive line swats passes, we praise them for their play, we never say the other QB sucks because we swatted a pass.

 

It's a weird dynamic.

 

once and its a good play by the D -- 3 times in 2 drives and its the D taking advantage of something fundamentally wrong with the O.

 

whether the young lineman were getting beat up by a vet front 4 that was probably more willing to sit back than pin the ears back and rush, or EJ was killing them..... well... i havent looked close enough. as it wasnt a problem last year with EJ, id guess the other possibility is worth atleast looking at

[cantankerous]

Wrong.

 

EJ stared down all of his receivers, so badly, that if you go and look at his last batted pass, the defender dropped away from his rush and was able to get his hands up to knock EJs pass down. He actually just stopped rushing on the play it was that bad. The offensive lineman(not sure who it was) almost fell forward a little... what should he have done? it's not football 101 in any way, in fact, it's called holding. Further evidence of EJs inability to look anyone off was his near INT. It was so bad that the linebacker didn't even have to watch the route. Sorry pal, EJs flaws are entirely his own, and 100% due to his play.

 

Agreed. It wouldn't be so easy for the defensive lineman to bat down passes if EJ isn't staring directly where he's going to throw. I know it's preseason, but man he looks awful.

[mountainwampus]

This is supposed to be the year of no excuses, so I think it's fair to blame EJ. Some may call it 'slow eyes' but I think it's more like tunnel vision. He doesn't notice things directly in front of him if he's focusing on something else. Defenses can read his intentions. Timing the jump/swat is easy if the target is broadcasted by EJ's slow eyes.

[Security]

One of the batted down passes was not even a batted down pass. He literally hit the DL in the shoulder pad, the pass was low, it was not over the top, it was terrible field vision and an awful throw.

 

The INT was just EJ never looking off and the Giants LB knew exactly where EJ was going the whole time.

 

The other batted ball was also EJ staring down the play.

[C.Biscuit97]

One of the batted down passes was not even a batted down pass. He literally hit the DL in the shoulder pad, the pass was low, it was not over the top, it was terrible field vision and an awful throw.

 

The INT was just EJ never looking off and the Giants LB knew exactly where EJ was going the whole time.

 

The other batted ball was also EJ staring down the play.

 

Good point. JPP has never been known for his ability to knock down passes.

[Doc]

Both JPP and Kiwi are 6'5" and have huge wingspans. And Marrone said, it was more on the OL. Considering EJ had 4 batted passes last year, not a huge issue.

 

As for Sammy's route, taking it too far outside means he's no less time to get to where he needs to be. Did anyone (Sammy, EJ, Marrone) say who was at fault on that play?

[C.Biscuit97]

Both JPP and Kiwi are 6'5" and have huge wingspans. And Marrone said, it was more on the OL. Considering EJ had 4 batted passes last year, not a huge issue.

 

As for Sammy's route, taking it too far outside means he's no less time to get to where he needs to be. Did anyone (Sammy, EJ, Marrone) say who was at fault on that play?

 

The difference between college and the pros is your route running needs to be 100% precise or it can totally miss up the timing on a play. One positive is EJ out threw a very fast receiver.

 

It just sucks that the regular season starts tomorrow and they have no more time to work on it.

[Mr. WEO]

I said it twice last night WEO.....and its still true

 

Every D lineman in every game has his hands up at some point when the QB is dropping back. One of the tallest QBs has to see what's right in front of him (ober and over). Roll out, pump fake....something. The O-linemen can't get away with holding on every play...

[YoloinOhio]

The difference between college and the pros is your route running needs to be 100% precise or it can totally miss up the timing on a play. One positive is EJ out threw a very fast receiver.

 

It just sucks that the regular season starts tomorrow and they have no more time to work on it.

That is exactly what Billick said after the game. He said he could get away with that at Clemson but not at the NFL. Interesting how last year Woods was always talked about as being such a polished route runner for being a rookie, and that is rare. Typically that is where the rookies need to focus the most - and Watkins is definitely putting in the work so I'm sure they will get on that this week.

[BuffaloBill]

This was one Preseason game.

 

Oh stop....

 

We have to throw in the towel and cut EJ now....

 

Stop trying to be rational.

 

 

[Saint Doug]

People do realize that most of the time (not always but most) that batted down passes are on the O line and not the QB?

 

Offensive linemen are taught to get the arms down of defensive linemen on pass plays....its football 101.

 

I didnt like the almost int that EJ through last night (although...lets be real...LOTS of good QB's throw almost int's).....but for some reason people are blaming EJ for the batted passes as well.

 

Wouldn't "getting the arms down" constitute holding? Wouldn't they physically have to bring these arms down by grabbing them and pulling them down?

[Wayne Cubed]

 

 

Wrong.

 

EJ stared down all of his receivers, so badly, that if you go and look at his last batted pass, the defender dropped away from his rush and was able to get his hands up to knock EJs pass down. He actually just stopped rushing on the play it was that bad. The offensive lineman(not sure who it was) almost fell forward a little... what should he have done? it's not football 101 in any way, in fact, it's called holding. Further evidence of EJs inability to look anyone off was his near INT. It was so bad that the linebacker didn't even have to watch the route. Sorry pal, EJs flaws are entirely his own, and 100% due to his play.

 

I love this school of thought. So by your logic, Andrew Luck who had 18 batted down passes his rookie year, stares down his receivers.

 

How about Matt Ryan, who had 16 last year?

 

EJ, in 10 games had 4....

 

But you've already made up your mind about EJ, so there's not point in having a rational discussion that it could in fact be the OL's fault.