Doc Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I love this school of thought. So by your logic, Andrew Luck who had 18 batted down passes his rookie year, stares down his receivers. How about Matt Ryan, who had 16 last year? Yeah, but in their defense, they looked gooooood when getting them batted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Wouldn't "getting the arms down" constitute holding? Wouldn't they physically have to bring these arms down by grabbing them and pulling them down? No. The technique involves getting down and attacking the knees of the defender so that their hands come down to protect themselves, assuming that they aren't already engaged enough to have the pass-rusher too off balance to maintain their rushing lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 No. The technique involves getting down and attacking the knees of the defender so that their hands come down to protect themselves, assuming that they aren't already engaged enough to have the pass-rusher too off balance to maintain their rushing lane. That is correct, but as was pointed out on the Kiwanuka bat, the defender stopped the rush and stepped back to leap for the throw. There was little Urbik could do. It wasn't the case where the DL was able to jump while still engaged in the block. He read the play correctly and batted down the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) That is correct, but as was pointed out on the Kiwanuka bat, the defender stopped the rush and stepped back to leap for the throw. There was little Urbik could do. It wasn't the case where the DL was able to jump while still engaged in the block. He read the play correctly and batted down the ball. That's the one that Wood talked about where he said that it was a designed defensive playcall for the defender to engage, and then drop off into shallow pass coverage underneath. Edited August 4, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 That's the one that Wood talked about where he said that it was a designed defensive playcall for the defender to engage, and then drop off into shallow pass coverage underneath. Right, so it's hard to blame the OL for that one, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FistingBot Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Nothing worse (on any fan message board) than the pure douchebaggery of a post that contains the phrase "you do realize." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 One of the batted down passes was not even a batted down pass. He literally hit the DL in the shoulder pad, the pass was low, it was not over the top, it was terrible field vision and an awful throw. The INT was just EJ never looking off and the Giants LB knew exactly where EJ was going the whole time. The other batted ball was also EJ staring down the play. So I guess Marrone has no idea what he is talking about...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 This was one Preseason game. To be followed by... They were just preseason games. It's only been a couple of regular season games. We're only halfway through the season. He was injured for part of the season, wait until you see what he does next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 To be fair. EJ is clearly staring down his receivers. It seemed like the D-Line was purposely backing down to bat passes. jPP was no where near the pocket on the play he batted down the pass. BUT IF Mike Williams catches that TD pass he dropped. EJ'a performance looks much better. So like everything with EJ 1 step forward 1 step back and lots of uncertainty. Im actually going to agree with that....I thought EJ did stare down his targets a bit.....and on the play where Urbik didnt knock the defenders hands down he purposly seemed to take a step back and anticipate the pass (in which case Urbike should have taken a step forward and engage him......which you could see he realized a second too late what the DL was doing) Wrong. EJ stared down all of his receivers, so badly, that if you go and look at his last batted pass, the defender dropped away from his rush and was able to get his hands up to knock EJs pass down. He actually just stopped rushing on the play it was that bad. The offensive lineman(not sure who it was) almost fell forward a little... what should he have done? it's not football 101 in any way, in fact, it's called holding. Further evidence of EJs inability to look anyone off was his near INT. It was so bad that the linebacker didn't even have to watch the route. Sorry pal, EJs flaws are entirely his own, and 100% due to his play. Im not going to debate that EJ was staring down his receivers (because he was) however that is a thing that a LOT of young QB's do and not just EJ.....it is the OL's responsibility to engage the DL and not allow him to get his timing to knock down a pass.....case in point with Urbike.....when that DL took that step back Urbik should have take a step forward....and when the DL puts his hands up you SHOVE him to take him off balance and force the OL to bring his hands down.... It IS footbal 101.....which is why I am explaining it....and the reason why Marrone made mention of it last night Every D lineman in every game has his hands up at some point when the QB is dropping back. One of the tallest QBs has to see what's right in front of him (ober and over). Roll out, pump fake....something. The O-linemen can't get away with holding on every play... Its not holding.....that is why a OL is allowed to place his hands inside......all you have to do to keep them from jumping is give them a shove when they attempt to jump. Look...this isnt that difficult to understand and I dont want to fight about it. No. The technique involves getting down and attacking the knees of the defender so that their hands come down to protect themselves, assuming that they aren't already engaged enough to have the pass-rusher too off balance to maintain their rushing lane. You dont even have to be that extreme......you just give them a shove to the mid section and the DL will bring their hands down to balance themselves.....or they dont extend their wingspan all the way out because they are off balance. You dont have to hold at all to accomplish this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikef272002 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 This was one Preseason game. Right, but thats what we have said for the last 13 years after the first preseason game.. So ya, it's one preseason game, but they gave me no reason to think they're the same old Bills.. BUt ya, it's just one preseason game, your right...Same as the past 13 first preseason games.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You herd it hear last Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Whenever our defensive line swats passes, we praise them for their play, we never say the other QB sucks because we swatted a pass. It's a weird dynamic. There's nothing weird about a double standard in an irrational mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I'll wait for Ron Jawarski to rip EJ for his machanics, before I jump on the 'Draft Bust' bandwagon!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You herd it hear last Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Wasn't Carrington good at batting down passes? I recall one of our recent guys being proficient at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Does that count the 3rd one where the defender in a vanilla preseason scheme did nothing on the play except drop back away from the online and react to EJs throw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Right, so it's hard to blame the OL for that one, no? Correct. That's just one of those situations where the defense runs a stunt, and guesses right, so they break the play. Stunts like that, or jail break blitzes, etc. are almost impossible to account for. They are huge gambles by a defense that, when they guess wrong, or fail, can lead to huge chunk yardage by the offense, but stop a play in it's tracks when guessed correctly. There isn't much a QB, offesnive lineman, or anyone else, can do to read these types of stunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Right, but thats what we have said for the last 13 years after the first preseason game.. So ya, it's one preseason game, but they gave me no reason to think they're the same old Bills.. BUt ya, it's just one preseason game, your right...Same as the past 13 first preseason games.. EJ went 16/21 w/ a TD in his first pre-season game last year. I know it's in the DNA for 90% of Bills fans (and god-given right) to irrationally B word and moan after the first "pre-pre-season" game of the year, but he threw seven passes last night. Seven. Not sure I'm willing to compare his two series of below-average QB play last night to the previous 13 years of failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Right, but thats what we have said for the last 13 years after the first preseason game.. So ya, it's one preseason game, but they gave me no reason to think they're the same old Bills.. BUt ya, it's just one preseason game, your right...Same as the past 13 first preseason games.. EJ has been here all 13 of those years!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 EJ has been here all 13 of those years!!!! Not to mention that in those past 13 years, even if our 1s looked semi-OK, our 2s and 3s would often get outplayed by the other teams 2s and 3s (lack of depth). I didn't see that so much last night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 4, 2014 Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 Not to mention that in those past 13 years, even if our 1s looked semi-OK, our 2s and 3s would often get outplayed by the other teams 2s and 3s (lack of depth). I didn't see that so much last night... Heitz, I noticed that as well....it looks like not only is our talent level with our 1s getting much better....but the depth behind them are also looking much better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Not to mention that in those past 13 years, even if our 1s looked semi-OK, our 2s and 3s would often get outplayed by the other teams 2s and 3s (lack of depth). I didn't see that so much last night... In fact, what we saw was the Giants leave their starting offense in an extra series so they could make up for being so bad the first two, followed by leaving their #2's in for a good while after the Bills had switched to their 3's. Both Giants TDs happened while they were mismatching strings against the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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